26th-Z

I just got off the phone with Jim who talked to Burt this morning (Tuesday) Someone came to look at the car over the weekend, called his buyer on his cell phone, told him it was the real deal, and the bidding went up from there along with a conversation about the arrangements with the buyer's agent. This morning, Burt contracted seller's remorse, didn't know what to do and pulled the car. I haven't had a chance to talk to Burt myself, but evidently the car is not for sale - at the moment - at this time - for now - who knows. Stay tuned for further developments.

New batch of photographs. Here is the VIN page I was talking about.

Halz, Go back a couple of pages and check out the map kats posted. What a great time those guys must have had! What a drive! Take for instance, the leg South from Canada down to Los Angeles. That drive was through the Grand Teton Mountain range just West of Yellowstone and down into the Great Salt Lake Basin. Further South, they drove through the Indian reservations just North of Grand Canyon and then West through Zion and Las Vegas on their way to L.A. Striking country, this land will really make a believer out of you. The Southern leg to New Orleans and back would have taken them through the low desert along the Mexican border and then further East into the high humidity region of the Gulf states. On their way back, they drove through vast areas of farm and cattle land to the high desert in Death Valley before descending to Los Angeles. I can't tell you what a life's accomplishment it would be to drive that route and all the people involved should be honored for what they accomplished and what they hold in their memories. Just awesome. They experienced every climatic condition to extreme and did it all without cell phones. The North American test drive is something to really appreciate and admire in it's significance. It is not a normal thing to do and the drive would surely stress any automobile to it's limits. Not to mention the people who did it. The counrty is rugged and the weather conditions could be horrendous - ice and snow to extreme dry heat, blowing sand to blowing buckets of water. It kind of makes me laugh when I think about it, and I'll bet a lot of the members here would chuckle too. "Lets take a couple of cars over to America and drive around for a few weeks - see what happens".

I just posted on "Z Car Value" thread. It is Burt's car and according to Burt in this morning's e-mail, negotiations for the sale of the car are underway - evidently a deposit has been made and it looks like the deal is going forward. Burt did quite a bit of work to the car, however I can't tell you first hand about all the details. I took some of the pictures in the eBay add http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2479364353&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT when I saw it in Florida last fall. Burt regrets selling the car, but felt it was more of a "trophy" and feared driving it for what might happen to it and the additional mileage he would put on it. Burt will be with us at the National convention in June.

In the morning e-mail was a note from the seller of this car. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2479364353&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT You may want to take a look. I know the car and took several of the pictures in the add. How about that for price!

My HLS30 data is that exact page - thanks.

Hello Alan, Your L20 response drew an; "Oh...of course" from me. Yes, I could see the handwriting all OVER the wall. I would have thought just the opposite about an S30S - fully loaded "super" bersion complete with Hitachi Surround Sound and Tokico heated seats. I was hoping you would comment on the printed data showing 12 VINs unaccounted for. Beck posts an interesting article which should be referenced; "The First Load of Z Cars to the United States" for our discussion of how to consider the production volume. He locates several of the early numbered cars demonstrating their existence and supposes what happened to the rest. I might take issue with which cars were on the first boat, my car breaking the rule Carl proposes. My car went to the East coast. True, it could have been off-loaded in California and many years ago I was told by telephone conversation with Nissan that my car was transfered from an Arizona dealer, but my documentation does not support either theory. Nor do the dates of delivery fall within the time line. Similarly, why would the Parts Catalog show C/# 00013 if the first car sold to the public was C/# 00016. I'll go out on a limb and support inclusion of the cars not sold to the public with the total production figures. C/# 00001 may have been destroyed, but evidence supports the fact it was built as a numbered chassis indicating commitment to production of the model. I do not support inclusion of the "white body" chassis or those without VIN stampings, rather viewing them as spare parts. I can just hear us go into the part number one discussion, but I just can't subscribe if the part doesn't have a part number. I'll get a picture of the Parts Catalog page tomorrow. I don't know what one might surmise other than a printed source of date / VIN relationship. The technical bulletins would have to support the data.

I can't remember what I had on my mind when I wrote HR, Alan. Thanks for the edit. What is an S30S? I just received one of those fancy blue parts books - this one "revised 1 December 1973" - USA and Canada Parts Catalog. In the introductory chapter it says without explanation: C/# HLS30-00013 from Oct. 69 C/# HLS30-21001 from Jan. 71 C/# HLS30-46001 from Sep. 71 C/# HLS30-120001 from Jul. 72 The VIN digits changed BEFORE the 260Z! Further: C/# RLS30-000001 from Aug. 73 C/# GRLS30-000001 from Oct. 73 If you view the beginnig of a car from the time the commitment was made, ie. the time the chassis was assembled and stamped, I would have to agree with you, Alan. Pretty much, the commitment was made to build the car when the chassis was built and stamped. No matter what equipment was placed, the technical bulletins would establish that time line.

The simple "HLS30" doesn't give you the whole story. The automatic transmssion car would have actually been HLS30A or more specifically HLS30AU for a USA car with automatic transmission. So many more standard transmission cars were made than automatic transmissions that the VIN number difference makes perfect sense. When they built the automatics, stronger bolts were needed and they just changed them on all cars at that point. The service bulletins give us a great reference in time and I know guys who collect them. I just don't have access to that information right now. What appears to be happening as I get more into this thread, is the idea that the actual VIN number can tell us a lot when compared to the service bulletin. Actually, my VIN number is HLS30U-00026 athough the only place it appears is in the sales documentation. HLS30 was stamped on the chassis before it was ever determined if it was going to be an HLS30U, or HLS30UN. The proper designation letters following the S30 appear to be "silent" and I propose that the determination of what the car was to be was made on the assembly line. Am I correct? All chassis were stamped "HL" or "HR" or "H" and the final determination of transmission type or destination was made later. What is the letter designation for the L20 engine? Lets say an automatic transmission car was going to California. An HLS30 was set on the assembly line and fitted with all the proper equipment as it moved down the line. Finally, when the OK sticker was slapped on it's arse, the car breathed life as HLS30AUV. Actual birth.

Yes I mean Mr. K's car! What else c o u l d you call it? I guess "American marketing version" was too polite. It irks my craw to see that car on posters, billboards, television all across America. For goodness sake, there's pictures of it on eBay right now! Pictures of it clad with naked women...For sale! Why didn't they just give him a real one? Wire wheels :stupid: As far as North American cars are concerned, the letter designations before the S30 are: H for the L24 and L28E engine (G added), L for left-hand drive, and R (RLS30 with a G added for 2+2 versions) for the L26 engine. After the S30 letter designations are: A and F indicating automatic and five-speed transmissions, U for Federal USA cars, UV for California (sun protection), and UN for Canada cars. GHLS30AUV would be a 280Z 2+2 automatic for California registration. The VIN changed from five digits to six digits with the introduction of the RLS30 to the best of my knowledge. Now back to that yellow thing....

I'm with you mtdripo, could have made more money as a bar tender. Count me in as highly educated, never grew up, don't intend to, and doing what I was trained for.

Same car - same dealer.

Your pictures are very helpful, Alan, for understanding how that all goes together on the chassis. Thanks. The car I pointed to a couple of threads ago seemed to have the FRP headlight extensions and I was wondering about the rest of the panels. The ducting is a good illustration of how Nissan / Datsun were attempting to control the air flow at the front of the car and reduce lift amongst other issues. Of course aerodynamics have come a long way, but this is characteristic design thought of that period. Why is the American marketing version of the ZG painted yellow? You know, the ZG on all the Datsun posters and advertisements you see around. Remember the video of the kid chasing his baseball? The ZG is painted bright yellow. Trivia Enjoy the ride.

Thanks Z kid. That was very helpful. Nice web page

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6187&item=2479364353&rd=1

I'm curious about the first advertisement. That's the first time I have seen construction particulars about the ZG nose. Am I correct in assuming that's a real HS30H?

The ring on the rear side of the hub. An ink mark made with a rubber stamp.

I have been sent to the boxes! Woe is me. Steering wheel - 10/69. Never really noticed the factory mark on it before.

More great information. Great discussion. Thanks for the pictures, kats.

There is some discussion crossover between this thread and the "round knob - square knob" thread about the hand throttle. It appears as though we can "date" cars buy the parts they do or don't have and dated service bulletins. Kats, do you have a complete set of bulletins from the first year? Although I have heard of the change to the crankshaft, I have never seen a complete description like your photo. Also to reminisce for a moment, I recall discussions about the BRE 240Z raced in SCCA competition to the C-Production National Championship. BRE had horrible difficulties with broken crankshafts initially, and when they finally got the car to last (and win), everyone thought they were "cheating" with some special "roller bearing" crankshaft. It was all in the harmonics and balance of the new design. The bulletins kats posted tie dates to VIN numbers and engine numbers. Proabably the most definitive connection we have established so far. Kats, Hosomi san sends greetings and has glowing remarks about your car. Chris

That converts to $16,000 and it appears as though the car was originally GP White. Nice ride.

kats, Hitachi mark on the antenna trim !!!! Too much !!!! I love it !!!!