Carl Beck

Hi Guys: I've seen quite a few of these in new cars. When the Dealerships received the cars, the hubcaps, carpet, tool kit, outside rear view mirror, inside rear view mirror, booklets etc were in the rear deck area. Nissan had an extensive "Pre-Delivery Inspection" process during which the car was mechanically and physically checked over. In addition to preparing it for delivery to the Customer - or actually to be turned over from the Service Dept. to the Sales Dept. {then the Sales Dept sold and delivered the car} The Owners Manuals and Warranty Booklets along with other Paperwork such as the MSO went to the Title Clerk {of Office Manager} in the Dealerships. They in turn processed the MSO for State Title, filled out the Factory Warranty info to be sent to Nissan USA, and stamped the owners warranty info on the warranty cards. If they were really on top of things - they also recorded the VIN, Engine Serial Number and Key Codes for the new owner in the Warranty Booklet.. but sometimes that didn't get done before the customer that had been waiting for his/her Z wanted to take it... During PDI - all extraneous "trash"... boxes from the hub caps, the paper they were wrapped in, the vinyl sheets covering the door panels, wrappers from the seatbelts - - - and yes - - -these funny little inspection notes written in Japanese - and considered of no value - - went into the trash. The mechanics had to fill out a PDI Report - and one copy of that was supposed to go to the Customer, while other copies went to Nissan. Nissan paid the dealers for PDI services... I still have the Inspection sheet that came in my Blue 72 Z - but only because I took the car right off the truck - and did everything to it myself. Who would have ever thought back then that anyone would want to see any of that junk - - 98% of the Datsun 240Z's left their hub caps and stock wheels at the Dealership, and the Customers never saw them. For years we had large stacks of both stock wheels and hubcaps sitting around - and after a time we just threw most of them in the dumpster. There just wasn't enough room to keep them all. If you bought your Snow Tires from the Dealer instead of a Tire Shop - we'd throw in a set of stock wheels to mount them on ;-) The Parts Dept sold a few over the counter for customers that wanted them for snow tires as well - - usually $5.00 each, $10.00 if you wanted both stock wheels and hub caps. For years and years and years no one wanted "D" hubcaps, they were ugly, and stock 72/73 hub caps were just passable... Moon Dishes were the only way to go if you didn't have "MAG's".. On the Inspection sheet - after all these years one can just barely read what is left of the ink from the "carbon copy"... it wasn't too bright to begin with. FWIW, Carl B.

There is your garage space Guy... Bob isn't kidding.. Carl

Hi Bob: Tell the owner not to take a penny less than $18K for that car. All he has to do is reach the right buyer with lots of clear photo's...Anyone that has looked at a lot junked up and poorly cared for 240-Z's - that is able to buy a nice one when they find it - will snatch that one up in a heart beat. It is just a matter of getting the word out far and wide - and reaching the right person - the car itself is well worth $18K in 2009 dollars... With the inflation that is surely facing us over the next five years - it will take three times as many dollars to buy it then. FWIW, Carl B.

I'd guess you need to have a load test performed on that battery. Put it on a slow charger. After it is fully charged - take it somewhere that it can be put on a battery load tester. Sometimes batteries develop a dead short internally and that shows up on a load test. It sounds like it is going dead to quickly for something in the car to be draining it - if there is something in the car draining it that quickly - I think you would smell it. FWIW, Carl B.

What engine - what head? You list three Z's in your profile.. Carl B.

Actually Chris: The Datsun Jacket pictured was sold or given away by the Datsun Dealers. The Datsun Jacket sold by BRE had the large DATSUN patch on the back. The red 240Z patch pictured was most likey added by someone. FWIW, Carl B.

Come to think of it - that might be a legitimate question in some peoples minds. http://connectionsuisse.vox.com/library/audio/6a00c225285da5604a00c2252aff0e8e1d.html and http://www.immigration-quebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/choose-quebec/society-values/french-language/index.html just saying....WTF???

Hi Ron: Several years ago I had tracked the car down to the person that sold it to its present owner. He relayed the following from documents found in the car. Which is pretty much confirmed by Rick as well. - He believes he was the second owner, from the window sticker in the glove box and other papers. - Purchased it from Garner, NC in 1976 - Imported into Portsmouth, VA - Sold by a Hampton, VA Dealer - At the time of purchase it has over 90K miles - Head replaced due to over-heating - Sold it to its present owner - an inside Parts Counter Man and Collector that worked for Bob Sharp Datsun. He gave me the present owners name - and I had been trying unsuccessfully for years to track him down. Talked to Bob Sharp and he remembered him, but did not know what happened to him, same for a couple other guys that worked in the Racing Shop at BSR... The present owner only worked at Bob Sharp Datsun for a couple years... He seemed to have dropped out of the Z Car community and no one knew where he was... Engine L24-02085 FWIW, Carl B.

Only now all the kids know exactly what to put in your gas tank or oil sump - instead of "sugar".

Well that's true. It's for people like me that have an old clunker sitting in the driveway - being used once or twice a year. An eyesore that the wife and neighbors were glad to see goneLOL The C4C Program is actually for New Car Dealers, and to aid in proping up the Government Motors Corporation for the UAW. The politicians were simply smart enough to make use of one or two of their groups of "usefull fools" {Gore's Folks etc}... to paint it Green and push it through in a hurry. Business as usual in D.C. Over your lifetime the single most expensive thing you pay for is the cost of Government. According to some reasonable sources that amounts to about 54% of your lifetime earning. One way to "save" some of your own money - is to take advantage of any "tax incentive" written into the Federal Laws. Most people buy a home - not only becaues they need it - but because the interest on the long term loan is tax deductible. Likewise today millions of people are taking advantage of the tax deduction in the thousands of dollars - to install new energy efficient A/C units, insulate their homes etc. From the customers perspective - the C4C program is simply another tax incentive - although one that was exceptionally easy to claim and comply with. As long as my wife is still working - she or I have to earn $7,031.25 in order to keep or spend $4,500.00 after taxes. {the value of my C4C}. With a tax incentive like that - we'd be stupid not to take advantage of it. C4C credit is NOT INCOME to the customer either.. which makes it even more valuable. I wanted something a bit newer than my 72 510 S/W for my Daughter to drive {not sure I would give it to her anyway} - My wife didn't want to give her 91 Thunderbird SC with 9K miles on it - to my Daughter... So that left me looking at a clean, low mileage used car... which takes about $12k to $15K even in todays market. C4C was a glove fit for me.. Daughter gets a car I don't have to fix, I get a good rational for upgrading my pickup from an 88 Chevy to maybe a 2000 Chevy... which I didn't really "need" as long as the clunker was sitting there.. FWIW, Carl B.

Carl??? Carl didn't say anything about Sand....da... Granted there are alternatives - one could continue to drive an old BMW and pour $4,500.00 into maintaining it over the coming years. Either way it costs money to drive.. Mary's new car has a 10 year / 100,000 mile power train warranty, in addition to the 5 year/ 60,000 mile new car warranty... So she should be good to go for a while... All said and done - one couldn't buy a serviceable used car for the total price of the new one.

It is true. I had a long talk with the owner this week. I didn't want to say anything - nor "spread the word" - until the guy that found it had a chance to tell the story himself. He had to leave unexpectedly to attend a fellow Marine's funeral this week. FWIW, Carl B.

The car becomes a "Clunker" when the Dealership fills out the on-line forms with the CARS program office. At that point the Dealer has to give them the VIN along with a lot of other data, copies of the Title, Registration, Insurance from the customer. If the Dealer decides to keep and resell the car - he can't show it on the Customer Sales Order as a "CARS Program Credit" - doing so would risk serious Federal Penalties - Keep in mind that these are Authorized New Car Dealerships worth millions and millions of dollars - no Owner would risk that. The Dealer has to disable the engine per the procedures outined in the code - before it is turned over to the Salvage Yards... and then there is a whole paper trail until what's left is crushed. Additionally the Customers have to sign certain forms, and swear to certain facts - again any misrepresentation carries Federal Penalties that far exceed any potential reward. Anyone with any nerve can screw with Local and State Laws - and with a good Lawyer walk away pretty clean if caught. That is NOT the case when dealing with the Fed's - they can destroy you and they enjoy doing it. Unlike Medicade/Medicare - I really don't expect to see much fraud with this program.. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Jon: You have to admit that model and model year alone - really doesn't tell you much about the vehicle. My wife had a 1991 Expolorer - she is a very easy driver - when we sold it in 2000 it want for $6K with 86K miles - prior to selling it we put about about $2K into it - power windows failed, brakes were due, the evaproator sprung a leak.. Jump forward 10 years - and picture the Explorer with 150K miles falling completely apart.. Or check your local junk yards and see how many are there - not wrecked, but just with blown tranny's and engines - and not worth fixing. I can see why the 90's Explorers are topping the list.. No question there are a few out there with 50K original miles that some old lady had that you can buy for $6,500.00 today... but they aren't the ones being turned in - at least not around here. FWIW, Carl B

Why would you assume that? Perhaps like me - their clunker was paid for years ago - and ever since they saved their money monthly... I'll bet that of the new cars sold with the CLUNKER program a huge percentage of the customer paid cash for the difference - or had such good credit they could put it on their VISA. Like I said - at least around here - you have to have A+++ credit ratings to get a loan on anything - this isn't the same market we had a couple years ago... With Manufacturers Discounts, and the CARS credit - most of the vehicles sold cost around 20K to start with - and the actual difference was between $10K and $15k {I'm guessing}... not exactly like financing a new car for $30K over seven years. Even then - "IF" you have the credit rating -"0%" financing on a $15K loan - is still very affordable for people that have good credit to begin with.. FWIW Carl B.

The problem is that a car with a market value of $4,500.00 won't be financed by any banks or credit unions today. So you have to find a buyer with the CASH to buy it - or with the Personal Line of Credit against which to draw. Marginal buyers have been all but shut down by the Banks and Credit Card companies - as credit for anything is still very tight. If you have an 850+ credit score and you don't need the money to begin with - you can still qualify for a loan. Secondly - if the car could be sold for $4,500.00+ - the dealer still has to take his overhead and cost to sell off the top of that number.. So even if he got $5,500.00 retail - he'd still lose money on the deal.

There were about 120 "clunkers" that I parked mine beside - trust me, you wouldn't have paid $500.00 for any of them.. $9000.00??? I think your friend at Midnight needs to watch what he's smoking ;-) If the car was worth $9000.00 the dealer would simply put it on the Used Car Lot and not sold it to the Government for $4,500.00 there isn't a Dealer left in business at this point that is that stupid. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Jon: Actually - they are allowed to resell any of the parts off the clunkers - Except the engine or complete drive train. They{either the Dealer or Recyclers} can sell drive train parts if not attached to the engine. You can download the specific rules and regulations from the CARS.gov web site - just look at the "Dealer" info. It's about 134 page PDF document. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Jon: The owner is Randy Jaffe and I do not believe he is a member here. Randy lived/worked in the Atlanta area for 30+ years. Over the past 10 years I've helped him find the best examples of the Z Cars from 69 though 83. He found and bought his own 300ZX's ;-) At any rate he had one of the finest collections of super low mileage, very original and or pure stock Z's I've ever seen. I think at one time he had over 25, that included 7 of the Vintage Z's. {in addition to some pretty nice collector Porsche's as well}. Life changes - and he is now relocating to Florida, so he has liquidated his auto collection in Atlanta. He hung on to this 10th AE because it has always been one of his favorites, but it's time to move on... He's a stand up guy, and a friend of mine. He has always done exactly what he said he would do, and was never petty about buying any of the cars he wanted. Will he get that kind of money in todays market ? More than likely... true #1 cars are still very hard to find and it seems that there are always Collectors willing and able to pick up a Jewel. Is that actually the First 10th AE Produced? Depends on how you look at it. Of the first group of 10th AE's completed with all the additional/special trim items and paint - Yes it is #1 of 3000. Is it the first chassis serial number to come off the line - NO. Just like the L24's in the 240Z's, the 280ZX chassis used for the 10th AE's got mixed around along the way. Charlie's 10th AE in Canada is equally impressive. His has the Dealer Installed body side molding and a couple more miles - but it too is priced about right. If they don't sell now - they will next year. FWIW, Carl

Hi Roman: Your 240-Z would be a 1971 Model Year, here in the States we refer to them as Series II. It would have had a Date of Manufacture of 05/71. Your Engine would have been produced in 12/72, for the 1973 Model Year. Looking at the pictures - I can't really tell you much. - While the engine block may be from a 1973 240Z, the valve cover is from a Series I car circa 1970. Looks like the S.U. Carb.'s are also from a 70-72 240Z. - Between the #1 and #2 Spark Plugs - cast into the head below them - there is a letter and number - is is E88 or E31? If it is E88 it is most likely the 73 head, if it is E31 it is most likely the 71 Head. - That is a non-stock radiator - after market type - but should be fine - The car has the 70/71 Metal Fan Blade - it would be a good idea to change it out for the newer and lighter weight plastic fan blade. The metal blades are heavy, wear the water pump bushings out and can come off - flying though the radiator or hood. If you can't change it - keep constant attention checking often for any signs of play or movement within the bushing. When worn the fan blade will move up/down when you lift it. - Steering wheel is from a 70 Model year car - brake master cylinder looks like an after market replacement We'll know more as you Post more pictures Welcome to the Group - tell us more about how you came to buy a 240Z, where it came from etc. FWIW, Carl B. Clearwater/ St. Petersburg Florida

While in general we agree - - Let me give you a somewhat different perspective on that sentence. I have no interest in defending the extremely poor management of both the Corporation nor the Unions involved - just the image of what GM really has been to America. I suggest that GM is not a "parasitic corporation" at all. Rather GM was the goose that laid the Golden Eggs for hundreds of thousands of people, and did so for more than eight decades. The ripple effect or multiplier effect of GM's Capital Investments and Payrolls on our GDP since the 1920's has never been calculated - - but I believe that if it were it would amount to Zillions of dollars.Yes way past Trillions No - GM is not a "parasitic corporation". GM is a once noble Host that has been bled dry, made anemic and which now requires serious surgery and lots of medication if we hope to save it. I agree that it is questionable that we should spend In sworn testimony before the U.S. Congress {keep in mind that the Fed's love prosecuting witnesses for perjury and the punishments are sever} the President of the United Auto Workers reminded the Committee that while the cost of labor per vehicle at GM/Ford averaged 11% of the vehicle - the cost of Government was 18%. That 18% cost included Local City and County Property Taxes, State Property and Intangible Taxes, Utility Taxes, State Workmen's Compensation Taxes as well as Federal Income and Social Security Taxes. It also included the government mandates such as EPA, OSHA and Equal Employment Opportunity Acts. That 18% did NOT include all the direct and hidden taxes on every item purchased from suppliers and their workers, nor every tax imposed on the Transporters nor New Car Dealerships. In a creditable study done five years earlier (he didn't say who did the study, or if he did I missed it) - it was stated that if there were no government taxes and no government imposed mandates on an automobile in the U.S. - the cost to the end consumer would be 48% of the MSRP today. If you really want to know how the Golden Goose was killed in the US - and why it is flourishing in places like China, Mexico, India, South America etc - - - Don't be blinded by the propaganda related to the "cost of labor" or "greedy management" - Major Corporations go where the total costs of operation are the lowest, it isn't the "cheap labor" we hear so much about - it's the cost of maintaining a greatly bloated Government, and never ending entitlements used to buy elections here. Like I said - there is no question that Decades of Bad Management and Corrupt Labor Unions played their part - - but actually a very small part by comparison. What is both sad and unexpected is the fact that major corporation from around the world get a better deal in a Communist Country, than they get in a Democratic one. {at least until that country gains its own internal growth engine} FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Coop: Yea...Stretching the "Rules" always adds more interest and fun to the competition. Racing is as much a mental challenge as much as it is a physical one - right? I enjoyed greatly knowing the entire Jaremko family and I've always been proud to call Paul my friend. We had a lot of great times together.. FWIW, Carl B.

10/71 Build date with a 48xxx VIN makes it a 1972 Model Year. Matching numbers means that the original engine serial number stamped on the engine block 'matches" the engine number stamped in the Data Tag under the hood. Orange with White interior was first offered for the 72 Model Year - most people think it is one of the BEST combinations to own. If it sat outside al this time - Given it's original acrylic enamel paint - chances are a good buffing will remove what is left of the enamel skin coat - meaning it will shine for about two weeks before it goes dull again. Might as well plan on doing a complete repaint in the original color. FWIW Carl B.

Walter - the latest... U.S. Won't Suspend Auto "Clunkers" Program: Official By REUTERS Published: July 30, 2009 Filed at 11:03 p.m. ET WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. government will not suspend its $1 billion "cash for clunkers" auto sales incentive even though confirmed sales and pending transactions neared the limit of 250,000 vehicles much sooner than expected, an Obama administration official said on Thursday night. http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/...ers-sales.html Reply With Quote

Tom Barber disagrees completely...with Mr. Bruce Augenstein. I watched the debate via 40 or so e-mails between the two... it got nasty to say the least. Nonetheless in the interests of hearing both sides: See: http://wotid.com/dyno/content/view/18/37/ FWIW, Carl B.