Carl Beck

I'd take the original seat mounting runners off the seats first. Turn the seat upside down, and see how the seat mounts are attached to the bottom of the seat frame. The I'd run a flat steel plate about 2.5" wide and 1/8th inch thick - from the Right Front of the seat to the Left Front of the seat - mounting it where the original seat mounting runners were bolted, or riveted in place. Do the same at the rear of the seat. Then you can mount the stock 240Z seat mounts/adjustors in their original positions to both the seat and the seat mounts in the floor of the car. Many seats have a stud welded to the seat frame - then the seat mounts bolt to that. Some seats have a riveted mount - in which case you just drill the rivet out and replace it with a nut/bolt to mount the flat steel plate. FWIW, Carl B

As it relates to protection of intellectual property rights - as I understand it, property rights that aren't protected and rights not enforced - can result in the loss of these rights. I wonder - does an advertising or promotional Poster, or Picture released for Public Relations, or released as a Press Release and/or given free of any charge to anyone in the public that ask for it - still carry Copyright Protections? In other words - dose the word "release" as in Press Release, or Public Relations Release... actually mean a release of Copyright? FWIW, Carl B.

Me too - however it is to bad Mallory doesn't offer a true HEI cap and rotor for that. For that matter they should offer cap, rotor and plug wires... with matching coil... FWIW, Carl B. Although I also run reworked 280ZX dissy on one car as well...

Did you actually measure both sides at the bottom of the rockerpanel? Maybe it's not the height of the car that is off...

I guess that is a case of muscle memory... my fingers get ahead of my mind....

He in "into Z's", much the same as the Street Kings were "into" Duce Coupes in the 50's. What has changed is that one could chop, channel and section a 32 Ford 3 Window - - resulting in a much smaller vehicle. Today inches are added to the Z..... still the SBC rules. FWIW, Carl B.

There are maybe three things in the US that everyone should see in person. The Redwood Forest is perhaps #1 on the list. Spend a day there and it will change your life. Mount Rushmore is another. It is not so much seeing the Faces carved in it - as turning around and looking at the same view the faces are. While you're there go around back through Custard National Park and visit the largest herd of American Buffalo, then go on to visit Crazy Horse Mountain... The Third - you'll have to come clear back across America to see - the Statue Of Liberty. Everyone should have to visit this in person before they are allowed to Vote. If you think it's pretty along California, Oregon and Washington's coast - just wait till you get up into Canada... You are correct, no matter how good the pictures -they just don't do Justice to what you see with your own eyes. Too bad you don't have someone along to share it with... Nonetheless, I'm really enjoying your trip... I've made it several times and hope to do it again at least one more time... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Kats: Thank-you. I am most happy that the Z Car Enthusiasts in Japan could see the BRE Baja Z. It was not widely known here in the US, as coverage of the Baja competitions were limited to a few speciality publications circulated mostly in California and the Western States at the time; I'm sure it was all but unheard of in Japan. Getting back to the subject of Mr. Tamura. At dinner with Mr. Tamura and Mr. Yoshida, did they both seem to agree that Mr. Tamura should be credited with the final or finished styling of the original Z Car? I also worry that the use of the term or name "A550-X" could represent at least two different designs, unless pictures of them were used to clearly identify them, by the people speaking. It seems that Mr Yoshida is saying that both the metal prototype and the fiberglass prototype kept at Yamaha are both part the A550-X Project. Mr. Matsuo's statement; "I never felt A550-X was a great looking car,I thought the car was in just on the half way of its completion." I would say that if he is talking about the metal prototype, that was delivered to Nissan, then Yes - that was NOT great looking, and Yes it was half way to its completion. If you showed the picture of the Fiberglass Prototype kept at Yamaha - then I do not understand how Mr. Matsuo could look at that car and think it was not a great looking car. Also it is most certainly finished - it could be driven around... As I look at sketches of the Fiberglass Yamaha A550-X and now see sketches from Mr. Yoshida's notebook - I see two cars that look very very much alike. {picture below} What do you think? FWIW, Carl

Hi Alan: On the above point - we are pretty much in agreement. For the people following along -I'll add to your summary: I think it is important we keep in mind that there is a significant difference in one's expectations, when the decision to hire a "Designer" or hire a "Design Consultant" is made. When Prince Motors hired Michelotti or when Nissan hired Pinnfarina, they hired a Designer and contracted him to deliver a finished design. When BMW hired Goertz, they contracted him to deliver a finished design. In all three cases these men had a more-or-less clean slate, although all were constrained by the ability of their employers to produce any specific design. That is quite different than hiring a Design Consultant. The process of Consulting involves working with someone, or some team, with the intention of not doing the work for them, but rather leading them to improve their design processes. This is usually facilitated by improved talent, tools and techniques applied to the design process. One idea being that if you improve the entire process, you will automatically improve the output of that process. Agreed. I would only add - that because of his immense personal ego, his all but complete lack of success in formal education, combined with a very real high intelligence level - - Mr. Goertz looked down his nose at most people surrounding him. In Goertz's mind - "peasants are such fools and so easily mislead" The group of fools were for the most part the Automotive Press that surrounded him in New York and gave him a public voice. Followed by too many authors of books on the subject - that also failed to do due diligence in their research. The first mention of Goertz working for Nissan that I have, is an Article titled "a designer decries THE SAMENESS IN '66". It was published in Automobile Quarterly. I think Mr. Goertz understood the role of "consultant" and/or "critic" fairly well - although I agree that he saw himself as "a designer" first and foremost. - - - - Quoted From The Article - - - - "A consultant points out the possible direction a design might take"; Goertz explained. "A staff designer must then work out the final concept based on what is selected and what modifications are to be made. The consultant has one great advantage in not being a regularly employed staff desiger. He can say to the president of the company, "you are wrong", and not worry abou losing his place in the company chart. A staff designer would be required to submit a proposal to his chief, who might then discuss it with a second vice-president, who would in turn consult with a first vice-president, until it finally reached the top - completely different from what it was originally." Mr. Goertz emphasized that though an outside-designer might not be allowed to proceed with and build the design he creates, his ideals and suggestions could well be influential in determining the style and configuration of future designs. - - - - - End Quote - - - - - - Speaking only for myself - I know that Mr. Goertz life story is one of very great UP's and Down's". I have to admire his self confidence, intellect and artistic ability. All of which he used in great measures to take care of himself. Smart enough to see the hand writing on the wall, at age 19 in Germany - he fled to the US via England. Became an American, served in the US Army during WW-II - while his Mother and Older Brother {the real Count} stayed in Germany only to wind up in Death Camps for Jews. Through his own hard work {which included managing his image} he did become a fairly well known Industrial Designer {among tens of thousands of nameless, faceless working industrial designers}. Much of his design work is admired to this day. For all of that, I have to say that there is much about the man, that I admire. On the other hand - he was a self-centered egomaniac. A cunning manipulator of people that foolishly thought of themselves as his friends. He was bitter about the manor in which his peers in the design community treated him. In that regard, I actually pity him. Such talent, opportunity and success never lead him to very much real personal happiness. Respect? - - No, I think that had I been face to face with Mr. Goertz, I would have seemed very disrespectful to him. I'm sure he would not have liked me one bit. I think it is interesting that his description of how things work in the corporate world given in 1966 - line up with Mr. Matsuo's story told years later. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Will: I wondered what happened. I saw you across the way - a few minutes later I couldn't find you!! Got side tracked several times talking to people too. Glad you got to stop by - even if it was a short visit.. Great pictures as always. FWIW, Carl B.

$650.00 for a complete rebuild including parts and labor - is normal around here. $175.00 to $250.00 for a 5spd. that needs to be rebuilt. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Kats: Wonderful new information - Thanks! - it is great to see Mr. Yoshida's notes. Also very interesting to hear that Mr. Yoshida worked on both the Silvia and A550-X. Up until now, the only person that I recall, said to have worked on both Projects from Nissan was Mr. Kimura. That may be a clue about Nissan's legal statement to Mr. Goertz. Very good job Kats. You should have been a Private Investigator {Private Eye} to track down all these people ;-) FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Kats: When you have dinner the 31st. You might want to ask your dinner guests if they knew anyone at G.K.Design. G.K.Design did some work with Yamaha - and that final good looking prototype at Yamaha, may have had some of G.K.Design's work rather than Mr. Goertz. Also - search www.nissan-glabal.com/JP/CITIZENSHIP/ and see if you can find Mr. Setsuraku. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Kats: Neither one. Mr. Matsuo tells us that by the time he took over the Sports Car Styling Studio - Mr. Kimua who had worked with Mr. Goertz, had left and that nothing from the Yamaha/Nissan project was carried over. Mr. Goertz himself tells us that the design groups within Nissan were segmented, so that ideas and concepts were intentionally not shared between/among them. {this is done to promote individual creativity and produce a broad range of alternatives} What I am saying is that "IF" the Yamaha A550-X was indeed work directed by or created by Mr. Goertz at Yamaha - and years later he saw the Datsun 240Z for the first time - I can see and understand why Goertz believed it was an evolution of his design. If Mr. Goertz showed pictures of the finished Yamaha A550-X to others {like the press in NY} and they then saw the Datsun 240Z for the first time - they would also believe it was Goertz work. Especially if none of Matsuo's work was provided at the time. Take the Yamaha A550-X and as Mr. Matsuo said - raise the hood line for the L24 that Katayama wanted, then make the car wider for the Automatic Transmission behind the L24 - and the result would be pretty close to the overall "styling" of the Z Car with headlight covers blended in. Even the grill looks the same. On the other hand - if the Yamaha A550-X was actually done by someone else at Yamaha.. and you look only at the metal prototype built to Goertz specifications ie the Nissan 2000GT - it looks NOTHING like the final form of the Z Car. I'm just wondering if Mr. Goertz was a complete fraud -claiming work that wasn't his - - or if he simply believe that what he was looking at when he saw the Z - was the direct result of his work. So I'd really like to know if the A550-X was in fact Goertz styling... Knowing the truth might help to explain the "Goertz Myth" in a way that the Goertz Believers could accept. FWIW, Carl B.

At #12,500.00 ????? or did I read that wrong? Carl B.

That is the 4th type - pretty rare to have a NOS set. Carl B.

Hi Kats: You ask if AC would have sold as well - - I replied that I thought it would have. I didn't say that I liked them as well as the final form. At dinner the 31st. Please ask Mr. Tamura and Mr. Yoshida what they can tell us - about this prototype produced at Yamaha - it has a Nissan Logo on the hood. Mr. Goertz wrote in his autobiography... "The metal prototype produced to my design and specifications was shipped to Nissan and the project came to a halt" - - See First Picture Below... that is the picture released by Nisssan of the metal prototype. Then, later in the same book, Mr. Goetz writes ..."In addition to the metal prototype developed by Yamaha to my design, Nissan made a Fiberglass version of it"..... {Goertz does not show pictures of either one} Mr. Goertz tells us that he continued his work at Nissan, after the Joint Nissan/Yamaha Development Project was ended. Working on a couple different cars, which included a possible replacement for the 16000 roadster. Shin shows us a Fiberglass prototype at Yamaha - -in his book "Toyota 2000 GT". Pictures of this car are always shown at Yamaha. - See the Second Picture Below... Several years ago - this second car was shown on the Yamaha Web Site in their "History Section" - it has been removed since then for some reason. It has always been shown with the NISSAN logo on the hood... The question is - where did the fiberglass prototype originate? Was this an evolution or refinement of the Goertz design, completed at Yamaha, before Goertz left Nissan? Or was this a design originated and completed by Yamaha? In either case Mr. Goertz seems to have believed it was his work.

Hi Alan: If the picture you are talking about is the one the Chris Posted - Yes, that was taken at the New York International Auto Show. The man standing beside Mr. Goertz is Bob Sharp. Mr. Kawazoe let Mr. Goertz put the Goertz Logo on one side of the car. At the time, Sharp and Kawazoe were convinced that Goertz was behind the design. After all these years and research - I believe that Mr. Goertz did believe that the Datsun 240Z was the direct evolution of his work. Given his massive ego, I don't see how he could have believed otherwise. Given the Nissan Logo on the hood, of the final evolution at Yamaha's Design Center, of what Goertz claimed was his work - I can at least see the basis for Mr. Goertz belief. I hasten to add for everyone - the final Goertz/Yamaha Prototype stayed at Yamaha, as Nissan had only contracted for Yamaha to build one working prototype - which was delivered to Nissan after the Joint Project was cancelled. That first iteration of the Nissan 2000GT, looked quite different. I reversed the image of the HLS30 in the picture below - to put it in the same orientation as the Yamaha prototype. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Kats: Yes - I believe that had the Z Car been produced with the styling of either ACearly or AClate, the same number of Datsun 240Z's could have been sold here in the U.S/Canada. While neither of the two styles are as refined as the final form - they are both relatively modern and good looking. Styling of a Hatchback/Fastback Coupe was only one factor that drove sales. Others, as important were performance, reliability and utility. Driver and passenger ergonomics also offered a huge advantage over other Sports/GT's in the same class. Datsun 240Z sales here in North America, for all four model years of 1970, 71, 72 and 73 were only 155,000 units. Put another way - during the 1970 Model Year alone, people bought 198,229 Mustangs and 124,901 Camaros. The size of the U.S. market was such that it could have easily absorbed two to three times the number sold here. While the Datsun 240Z was a huge success for Nissan and the Datsun Dealers at the time, it represented a very small percentage of the potential new car market here in North America. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Mark: Welcome to the group. Looking at the pictures, I think you lucked out. There is no battery in the car and no coil - so it didn't leak and eat the frame rail. Also no one at this point has tried to turn the engine over by cranking the starter. {I hope}. Don't let anyone throw a battery in the car and start cranking. That has the potential to do far more damage than than just sitting idle for 25 years. There is a good thread titled "Waking the sleeping beast". I suggest you read it. Before you do anything else. http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22619&highlight=Awakening Go slow - and you may save yourself a lot of hassles and expense. Then the next order of business is to clean it up - use mild soap and water - that will take 90% of the crud off. Take care not to be too harsh with the vinyl and door panels. They will most likely be dry and brittle. After you get the top layers of grime off - you can use a bit stronger solution of cleaners on tough spots. If the dash isn't already cracked - you'll want to clean it, then rub it down with Vaseline Petroleum Jelly. Let that soak for a day, then remove the excess. There is a good chance that the carpet will be dry rotted - but sometimes they are not. Carefully remove them and vacuum - to see what you have. You will more than likely have to replace the tires, the rubber hoses for coolant, fuel and brake fluids. You might want to pull the radiator and have it boiled out and pressure checked, before you put fresh fluids in. Expect the rear wheel cylinders to be shot - likewise the front calipers will most likely have to be at least removed and cleaned, the pistons hang up. You most likely will wind up replacing the brake master cylinder, along with the clutch master cylinder. Left siting for years they corrode and the seals go bad. good luck, Carl B.

Did anyone happen to capture any pictures from behind the Garage? Where the food was being prepared and served? If so I would like to have a copy... thanks, Carl B.

Hi Alan: Actually - that time line came from Nissan originally, and I edited some of the later data listed. Nissan had it at one time on their web site - of course all the Nissan web sites have been changed over time. I did not put the "goes on sale" there, that was indeed Nissan's term. To answer some of the questions about the event - I have written a couple of friends that may have attended, so I'll wait to see what their reply looks like. I will say that at the time - Mr. Goertz was still in good standing with Nissan. Mr. Goertz was a friend of both Bob Sharp and Mr. Kawazoe - so it would not surprise me to see him present. One thing I have ran into is the lose use of terms in lue of proper names ie. "The New York International Auto Show", "The New York Auto Show" and the "New York Show"...makes it hard to determin which show is being discussed. As I understand it - the "New York Auto Show" features all the new models for sale, and is promoted by the Auto Dealers Association, whereas the "New York International Auto Show" is the event for the Manufacturers, and their displays move from major city to major city around the country. I looked it up once, not too long ago - but as I recall the "New York International Auto Show" was held in Jan. I'll get back on this when I hear back from a few friends. Who knows perhaps they can shed some light and/or dig out some old photo's. FWIW, Carl B.

I would have bought that in a heart beat... great find... Carl B.

Hi Guys: Looking at the pictures below - would you say that these are pictures of the same person taken perhaps a few years between, and showing the face at a slightly different camera angle... Or would two people working at Nissan Design just happen to look so much alike? The eyes and nose look the same, the height of the person looks about the same and eye brows look about the same - although one pictures shows a guy messed up at work and the other shows a guy dressed for a picture with his hair combed... Same guy or not? FWIW, Carl B.

I think most people believe that. Unless your name is Albright Goertz - in that case cars are born in the mind of one person if they are to be successful. According to Mr. Goertz only mundane, carbon copies come from environments where "teams" and/or "committees" are involved in the design process. Mr. Goertz would allow no-one to interfere with "his" designs. He tells us that in several articles related to the subject of design and reinforces it in his autobiography. One of the striking differences between Goertz and Matsuo is their personal design philosophy. Where Goertz speaks often of his opinion that design is a matter of a singular focus, much the same as the art of Painting. Matsuo tells us a story of how he and his team, adapted too and incorporated the suggestions and requirements that came his way though-out the design process. Indeed the car they finished was all but completely different than the car he started with. Finished styling is a matter of very subtle changes in form or line making a huge difference in the over-all visual impact. Goertz made what I would consider minor changes to the existing Silvia design - but the changes he made pleased the eye of Management and got the car out of the design studio and into limited production. For that reason Goertz is credited with the design. If Mr. Tamura is proven correct - that is to say that he alone was responsible for the fine body lines that comprise the finished prototype of the Z Car - - he may well prove Mr. Goertz correct. On the other hand - if the Z Car final design evolved over time per Mr. Matsuo's story, with different team members contributing, with design requirements changing, and still such a beautiful end result was achieved - then it proves that Mr. Goertz was full of B.S. Related to the process of design within Nissan, Mr. Matsuo acknowledges right up front that just prior to his taking responsibility for the styling of sports cars - Nissan's design processes were undergoing significant change. Mr. Matsuo writes: "Anyway. this period saw the introduction of full-sized clay models being employed in the styling room. along with the use of pastels and marker pens for sketches. The whole process of automotive design was in the midst of a radical transformation at the Nissan works" That is why I believe it is fair to say that Mr. Goertz did provide some benefit to Nissan as far as his design consulting contract goes. Overall - I believe Mr. Matsuo's story of the Z Car, mostly because when you lay it out on a time line, it is collaborated by events reported elsewhere, by other people. This will be a very interesting story to follow. thanks Kats!! Carl B.