Captain Obvious

It's comforting hearing other's in the same boat. I didn't want to push it to the first flakes as they often put salt down as a pre-emptive measure. I was out yesterday in my DD and when I came to one intersection, there was a pile of it sitting there where the truck leaked while it was sitting at a red light. FastWoman, Naaa. No turbo, just like for like replacement. My current engine runs great, but there's a bunch of non-critical issues that I could fix all at once with a replacement motor. I found a P79/F54 motor from an non-turbo ZX that I was able to see run before I bought it. The current plan is to swap my old motor back into the ZX and sell the whole car off as a parts car. One that will hopefully run well enough that it can drive under it's own power and won't have to be towed. I'm kinda surprised you didn't jump all over the check valve thing. Let me say it again... I bought a new check valve to thread into my fuel pump and installation is on project list. :tapemouth

I know some climates work for all year driving, but not where I am. Once they put the salt down I wait for a good soaking rain as well, but around here that might not happen until March or April. As Steve suggested, I've got a project list for the off season. This off season starts with suspension. Thanks to my PO, I've got two different mismatching brand strut cartridges up front and poly bushings everywhere that squawk like crazy below 50 degrees F. I'm tempted to rip them all out and replace with rubber. I've also got rear wheel bearings that wobble when you rock the rear wheels at 3 and 9. And a relay block to put in for my headlights and starter. And a ZX motor to swap in. And a new fuel pump check valve. and ... and ... and ... Salty deep fried roads...

injector problems an ultimate frustration efi bible

I went out for the last Z drive of 2013. We're getting our first winter precipitation soon and the roads are likely to be salted. That means I won't be driving her again until Spring 2014. I'm officially calling it quits for the year: Anyone else doing the same thing? Take a pic and share in the sorrow...

A few years ago ebay changed their charge scheme such that they take a percentage cut of the "total cost" of an item including both the sale price and the shipping charge. They instituted that change because sellers were charging exorbitant shipping charges to supplement profit on their items. Since ebay didn't take a cut of the shipping, any excess in unrealistic shipping charges went right into the sellers pocket. But now that ebay considers shipping charges into the total selling price, it really doesn't matter anymore. You might see that $14 shipping charge on something that costs $2 to ship, and while it may turn you off a little, it's the exact same thing as what the seller did by providing free shipping and boosting the selling price by $14. In other words, you just have to roll the shipping charge into the "total cost" and decide if the item is worth that to you or not. I think it's one of the better changes ebay made in the past few years. Of course, it's offset by bonehead changes, but at least I agree with that one.

True that. I agree and wouldn't recommend an underhood filtered source. Not to say that you couldn't find a more unobtrusive location for a small solenoid valve and it's associated tubing and wiring, but wherever you pick the air source from, it's molecules should be included in the AFM flow.

And that concept of using a solenoid valve instead of the AAR came back to mind just this evening as a matter of fact. It's gotten cold enough here that my idle crept up a little. My assumption is that my AAR (which doesn't have the warming plate underneath) isn't generating enough internal heat to close completely. I'm planning to take the car down for the season shortly, so I probably won't be driving much more until spring, but I thought of you and your AAR issues.

She's a beaut! When you get more time (dead of winter, I suspect?) get in touch. I've got other pics that I can get to you. I spend more time here than other Z forums. Thanks again for the hospitality in your part of the world. and I wish I had the opportunity to see your 77. There's still stuff out of place on mine and seeing another of the same year helps get stuff back to where it belongs.

Lenny, I sent you an email a couple days ago. You probably didn't see it because you're too busy soldering?

Two things that would contribute to long cold start cranking would be cold start valve system problems and fuel pressure problems. I don't know offhand what the low temp threshold is on the 83 cold start system, but I'm sure it's warmer than 32F. For example, in 76, the cold start system was activated below 57-72F. The temp number would be in the FSM. Have you downloaded a copy yet?

HaZmatt, Love the user name. That's awesome. Do they call you that at work? I've found that in the general public arena there's absolutely no difference in perception between the first year and the last year. By that, I mean... All of these cars are so old by now that "normal" people have no idea of the differences between any of them. To the general public, there's no difference between the first 240 ever produced and the last 280 ever produced. The only people who really know (or care) about the differences are car fanatics. Personally, I "desire" my 77 more than any of the earlier years. I'm driving it, not collecting it.

About condensers... Haha! You didn't tell us your points were burned up!!

I know that we've both been there. So are you going to populate the board yourself? I've done a fair share of surface mount assy by hand, but not everyone is comfortable with the geometry. Or maybe... You could tell me that you're gonna toss it onto the pick-n-place at work during lunch break. Wouldn't that be sweet!

That's a long story? Haha!! :laugh:

Lenny, Awesome. Can't wait to see what happens when you get one assembled and powered. I see in the pic you've got the board edge connector installed. Did you harvest that from a stock ECU, or did the part numbers we talked about earlier pan out? I worry sometimes about large low volume parts like that... They say they have stock, but they're in the dark dusty part of the stockroom and they only think they have stock. BTW - Enjoy the smoke from prototype #1! :devious:

Thanks for linking to that doc. I had previously gone poking around the Atlanticz site and found the fuel pump page that linked to the doc you found, but that's where I stopped. That document mirrors my understanding completely (or more accurately, my understanding mirrors that doc, since it was here first!). I was one mouse click away! Lesson? When you don't know, check the Atlantic Z Car Club first, and if you still can't figure it out, then study the FSM.

Cool! Canadian SPAM! Who knew, eh?

Right 78 is different than 75 through 77, but it's not as simple as just the oil pressure switch. The alternator is involved as well.

I agree. With the current system, I think they swung too far in the "unsafe" direction. If my current understanding is correct, once the ignition switch is in ON or START, you could completely disconnect the oil pressure switch and the alternator connector and the fuel pump will run. The sense of the failsafe detection is wrong. OPEN is not failsafe...

Yeah, that's the chart from EF-16. That chart clearly indicates that the intention is that the engine will run with alternator output OR oil pressure. Using the chart you referenced, in conjunction with another chart on page EF-36 and the wiring diagrams, I think I was able to figure out what all of the involved switches and relays do under the different conditions. And you're right... It's a counter-intuitive, convoluted, screwy system. I should really document the system before I forget again.

I don't have a 78, so I can't test it, but if my understanding of the system is correct, the engine should not have shut off. Maybe there was a problem with your alternator, or maybe my understanding of the system is still flawed. I can tell you that the documentation is confusing!

Boy do I understand that!! I looked at a slew of new aftermarket head units for something that I didn't hate and I finally gave up. And you hit on one of the "features" that bugs me. I hate it when you push the volume knob in and it gets you into a menu system. You reach for the volume knob, hit a bump in the road and accidently enter the menu system without even knowing it. Then you crank the knob to change the volume, but change your menu settings instead. Then by the time you figure what's going on, all your settings are screwed up. :ogre: I HATE that! I've got a list of must-haves for my car heat unit, and I think my must-haves rule out every aftermarket unit available. I think I wrote my list down somewhere... If I find it, I'll share and we can talk about it. Here's the basic underlying philosophy from my previous thread about my stereo system: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/interior-s30/50668-need-help-sound-system.html "Put the stuff I use the most on the left and the stuff I use the least on the right. Don't put all sorts of crap around the volume knob that I'll hit by accident in the dark. Keep it simple."

He's 22? I can do better than that... This should make sense Mang!! Just poking more fun.

Zed Head, I used to think (up until a few days ago) that the fuel pump on the 78 would only run if there were both oil pressure AND a spinning alternator. However, I've now taken a closer look at the design and I no longer believe that to be the case. I now believe, just as you suggested earlier, that the fuel pump on the 78 will run if there is oil pressure OR a spinning alternator. It's really a convoluted screwy system and if I get the chance, I'll put together a description of system operation. But in the meantime, thanks for the help.

I used to think (up until a few days ago) that the fuel pump on the 78 would only run if there were both oil pressure AND a spinning alternator. However, I've now taken a closer look at the design and I no longer believe that to be the case. I now believe that the fuel pump on the 78 will run if there is oil pressure OR a spinning alternator. So your experience above of unplugging the oil pressure sender connector and finding that the fuel pump continues to run makes sense to me. All that said... I still think you should start small and try to figure out which camp you're in... Fuel or spark.