Everything posted by Zed Head
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Z Restoration Progam
Carl's comment really doesn't have anything to do with the Restoration program. It's just an interesting aside that suggests that Nissan used Cadmium-plated fasteners on the early cars. His comment stands alone and could be a completely separate thread. So far, all of the comments refuting what Carl has described are based on supposition and interpretation of various documents. "Cadmium was banned", "why would Nissan do that", etc. Those statements are interesting but only describe what Nissan intended or what people think Nissan intended. Having worked for large corporations it's easy for me to imagine years worth of cadmium-plated inventory being used up before the switch to new process inventory. Without a document explicitly stating that cadmium-plated parts were banned from use, immediately, or with a set date, the question remains open. Maybe it's in the Japanese langauge documents.
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Z Restoration Progam
It does seem odd that a document produced by Nissan Motor Corporation, used for the purpose of "restoration" would add something to the program that was not original to the cars. Although, of course, powder coating was probably not used in the early 70's on the 240Z's. And it's not clear who produced the checklist docuemnt. Could have been a salesperson who did not know what "Cad" really was. Still undefined. The absence of evidence does not prove anything. p.s. the "Cad" discussion is more related to Carl Beck's story of taking some early fasteners to his friends at Honeywell and having them analyzed (why did he do that?). Maybe his friends are still around? Carl Beck's claim appears to be based on science. The other claim seems based on the banning of cadmium's use, in a form undefined, in 1969. Could be that cadmium-plating process was banned but not the use of out-sourced cadmium-plated products. Cadmium is still used in Ni-Cd batteries. Some made in Japan. https://corp.furukawadenchi.co.jp/en/products/indust/column.html
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Z Restoration Progam
Do you have a reference regarding the ban, and its details? I cannot find anything on the internet besides a single statement that Boeing developed new plating methods because of the ban in Japan, in 1969. But the source did not have a citation. A typical industrial chemical ban has a phaseout period. Large corporations have great influence on regulations. https://www.sifcoasc.com/cadmium-replacements "Boeing began their research into cadmium alternatives in the early 1970’s as a response to Japan’s ban of the use of cadmium in 1969." There is quite a bit out there about Itai-itai disease though. Interesting digression. https://www.int-res.com/articles/esep2012/12/e012p099.pdf Role of experts and public participation in pollution control: the case of Itai-itai disease in Japan1 Masanori Kaji Graduate School of Decision Science and Technology, Group of History of Science and Technology, Tokyo Institute of Technology, W9-79, 2-12-1 Ookayama, Meguro-ku, Tokyo 152-8552, Japan
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Z Restoration Progam
We'd also need to know more about the people Carl Beck knew at Honeywell. I'd write more if I was here to argue. But I'm just here to learn more. I really hope that you were being self-referential here, in an attempt at humor.
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Z Restoration Progam
The science shows the reality and the literature represents the image of desired reality. You'd have to know more about the methods used by the Honeywell people to know why they said cadmium was present. Maybe the parts were old stock hardware, produced before the cadmium ban. Old hardware is still out there if somebody wants to pay or knows some insiders at a good lab. Without more information it's just more conjecture. One of many web sites from one of many typical analytical labs, which could do that type of analysis. Triclinic Labs, LLC.Leaders in Solid-State Development and Materials Characterization
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Replace or Not to, that is the question
@cgsheen1 has turbo experience. darom is already on Hybridz anyway.
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Replace or Not to, that is the question
I meant the contact surface. The other side, the friction surface. It can get hot spots also. Hot spots are not necessarily bad though. If it worked fine, no chatter or slippage, and it only has 1000 miles I'd just reuse it. But that's just me. Do you know the brand and type? It might give a clue on how appropriate it is for a turbo engine. Nissan used the larger flywheel and pressure plate for the turbo and 2+2 cars. 240 mm instead of 225.
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Replace or Not to, that is the question
Or it might be that it's not even worn in yet. I don't see hot spots. Might help to post a picture of the pressure plate.
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Z Restoration Progam
You mean...rocket science?
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It only works if I spray gas into the air intake.
The OP implies that it ran when parked, but the pump and hoses indicate that somebody tried to get it running using a portable can on the fender or in the engine bay. Somebody either messed with it in the "year" (probably 3 or 4 in real years) it's been sitting, or the friend only had it running on a portable can.
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Z Restoration Progam
Too bad the checklist notes weren't delivered with the cars. That would be cool to have today. I assume that people like zspert and Pierre are the Shop Reps? Who kept the Checklist documents? 1997 was well in to the copier and computer age. Any chance they're out there in copies or image form? I'm way over on the engine rebuilding end of the interest spectrum. It still seems unclear who managed the rebuilding of them. Did the Shop Reps just handle the shipping and receiving of engines to AER? Did they come back fully assembled, at least with heads, timing cover, fuel pump, etc., installed and torqued? Or did they come back in pieces and were reassembled at the Shop? Best to collect this information now, especailly in the States. Attempts are being made to create a new history, erasing the old. Somebody will realize what the Wayback Machine holds. It might not last.
- It only works if I spray gas into the air intake.
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Z Restoration Progam
The images from the Japanese magazines suggest that every part was inspected as shown in the pictures. The reality seems to be that the parts were inspected by employees of AER. Then a Shop Rep signed off on the work. And apparently, re the metal particles, much of the work had to be reworked or cleaned up. That seems to be the reality based on the weight of the evidence presented so far. It's just the way it it. More than "fairly obvious". Disappointing to some, interesting to others.
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Z's on BAT and other places collection
Back to normal programming. This 240Z auction is ending today but it's already up to $23,000. Kind of surprising considering its unusual appearance. It does look clean though. https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-datsun-240z-293/
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Z Restoration Progam
I've noticed that many of your comments are based on your own assumptions. You seem unable to accept that Nissan could have possibly made mistakes or cut corners or created an image for marketing purposes that was not a true representation of reality. Some of your statements seem purposely vague also, like "went in to the restoration of". What does that even mean? Were they installed in engines that were installed in the cars? No assumptions please if you choose to answer.
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Z Restoration Progam
Did the 11 get new engines? Or rebuilt engines sourced through AER? If they got new engines did Nissan create a new engine serial number tag for the engine bay or leave the old engine number? Each car has its own provenance. Which is part of what Dean Huff is trying to put together for his, I assume. Good luck.
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Z Restoration Progam
It looks like the engine work was not as well-supervised as the body work. Only the Shop Representative signed off. As opposed to Body Restoration which required a Nissan Rep and a Shop Rep, and a Nissan Q.C. Engineer if there were questions. Still curious about the metal particles, if the engines came fully assembled.
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It only works if I spray gas into the air intake.
- It only works if I spray gas into the air intake.
- It only works if I spray gas into the air intake.
That's a 1978 280Z. The fuel rail and other parts tell the story. Somebody has installed a fuel pump in the engine bay, and it is not connected a to a tank. of the type that don't like to pull fuel. That fuel pump should be moved back to the original area by the fuel tank (if it still works) so that it can self-prime with fuel. Download the FSM if you want to go deeper. https://www.classiczcars.com/files/category/13-280z/- Z Restoration Progam
The Checklist document is interesting reading. There's a Nissan rep, and a Shop rep, and a QC Engineer, and an NRD Engineer. Not sure what NRD stands for, have to keep browsing. Also a National Service Center. Not sure where that is either.- Z's on BAT and other places collection
I posted my response above in 26th-Z's Restoration thread. That's a better place for the discussion. Let's see what happens. Click here folks if you want to continue the discussion.- Z Restoration Progam
Attempt to transfer Restoration program discussion over here from the BaT thread. It's an interesting discussion at its core. HS30-H seems to be implying that the engines were not rebuilt by AER, or maybe not all of them were. But he's not offering an alternative, unless he's saying that Nissan engineers worked alongside AER employees or received unassembled parts from AER or somewhere else. Rebuilding requires a machine shop. In 1996 I don't believe that Nissan had any manufacturing facilities in the States. They started assembling cars here in 1993. So, if it wasn't AER who was it? Where were those pictures taken? Seems unlikely that "Nissan engineers" were examining parts in the States. If they were, where did the parts come from? Also interested in where those metal fragments were seen in the AER engines. Under the valve cover? In the oil pan? Why were they seen if the engines arrived complete? Was AER just supplying short blocks and separate heads? The checklist implies that "The Shop" was to assemble the engines (pasted image below). Also implying that multiples machine shops might have been involved, each receiving instructions. Can't tell. These questions can be answered if we avoid the sidetracks. Interesting how Nissan is still using the 240Z in their marketing. First thing you see on their Heritage page. Nissan USANissan History: The Path from Datsun's Inception to TodayUncover the story of Nissan's heritage, including where Nissan started, when Datsun became Nissan, and the key dates that mark Nissan's evolution.- Z's on BAT and other places collection
It's an interesting discussion at its core. HS30-H seems to be implying that the engines were not rebuilt by AER, or maybe not all of them were. But he's not offering an alternative, unless he's saying that Nissan engineers worked alongside AER employees or received unassembled parts from AER or somewhere else. Rebuilding requires a machine shop. In 1996 I don't believe that Nissan had any manufacturing facilities in the States. They started assembling cars here in 1993. So, if it wasn't AER who was it? Where were those pictures taken? Seems unlikely that "Nissan engineers" were examining parts in the States. If they were, where did the parts come from? Also interested in where those metal fragments were seen in the AER engines. Under the valve cover? In the oil pan? Why were they seen if the engines arrived complete? Was AER just supplying short blocks and separate heads? The checklist implies that "The Shop" was to assemble the engines (pasted image below). Also implying that multiples machine shops might have been involved, each receiving instructions. Can't tell. These questions can be answered if we avoid the sidetracks. Interesting how Nissan is still using the 240Z in their marketing. First thing you see on their Heritage page. Nissan USANissan History: The Path from Datsun's Inception to TodayUncover the story of Nissan's heritage, including where Nissan started, when Datsun became Nissan, and the key dates that mark Nissan's evolution.- saturday night music thread
Ignore the women. Just enjoy the sound of the fretless bass. Like a string trombone.
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