HS30-H

I think the seller of the ex-Larry Steppe/The 240Z Guild fantasy-in-red car has hit a metaphorical home run: "Men who will bid the amount needed to win this "Auction" do not need education". Ha ha ha ha ha. HA HA HA HA HA! That's right up there with some of the most unintentionally hilarious comments I've ever seen on BAT. Who is this guy? He should run for President of something or other. He's got my vote. On the other hand, he's probably right. Anyone who bids what this clown probably expects to net from this dog's dinner of a car will be in need of counselling, not education. A Mention In Despatches to BAT commenter 'Schroeder' who is fighting the good fight whilst so far - amazingly - dodging the incoming 'Not Constructive' deletion fire. Let's hope his piano has avoided any damage too.

We now have 'The 240Z Guild' calling the Grande Nose on this car a "Police Package" (LOL) and claiming that the aircon-related diverter ducts are "brake ducts" (they are nowhere near the brakes and they push air through the radiator and aircon condenser). Objective - and clearly correct - critique of the overfender mounting positions has been rejected as 'Non Constructive'. Clowns to the left, jokers to the right. None so blind as those who will not see. Reference point for the car in question:

There's plenty of room on here for both objective and subjective criticism of cars that are up for sale. This thread - in case you hadn't noticed - is full of it. If you're embarking on any kind of crusade to clean up our little corner of the classic car scene, I'd suggest you might like to start with the likes of this Larry Steppe character and his chum 'The 240Z Guild'.

If it is noisy inside it will at least drown out the cries of dismay from anybody with good taste who is unfortunate enough to encounter it. This car used to be part of the 'Larry Steppe' collection which seemed to be in some sort of curious arrangement of elastic ownership with 'The 240Z Guild'. I note 'The 240Z Guild' has said that the car changed hands before this BAT auction, but I'd take that with a very large pinch of Sodium Chloride. What a munter it is. The overfenders appear to have been fitted in the dark and George Foreman probably doesn't want that dinky little grill(e) back now. Had a chuckle at the tall claim that the 'G' nose on the car was sourced from a Japanese police car, although plenty of people will probably swallow that one whole.

That comment was in reference to the generic "exceptional investment opportunity for collectors" sales fluff that they all seem to trot out. When (and if) the new owner - or any future 'investor'/'collector' - check the car out thoroughly they will probably be in for a few surprises. What concerns me is - for example - a 1970 production-dated car being sold as a 1969 production-dated car (with, I'm convinced, some perceived value added for that 1969 cachet) and it being described as having the correct R192 differential when it arrived in the UK from Japan with an R180 in its place and it left the UK that way. There are many, many other examples. A simple Google search of the chassis number brings up a fair amount of past discussion of the car. If I was intending to fork out that kind of money for a rare car I think I'd do a little Due Diligence first. They could buy a much better car from Japan - without the irreversible issues and question marks - for not much more than they just paid.

So pointing out that the Mecum description for 'PS30-00105' is effectively a pack of lies is "missing the point" then? Call me old fashioned, but I still expect an auction to get what they put in writing right. What they hide, and what they don't know, is part of the game. Lies, not. @ "armchair experts". This thread is a veritable parking lot full of deep-buttoned silk velvet upholstered wingback armchairs. That's what we do. That's what classiczcars.com exists for. Who else is going to do it? The poorly-informed, portfolio-building-and-bailing-out-at-the-right-time-investors who bought something because their 'advisor' told them it was cool won't do it. They don't know sh*t from putty. What do you classify yourself as then, Tonto?

Just seen a post which says that 'PS30-00105' was sold for 270k USD at the mecum sale. Wow. I wonder if the new owner knows what he's got (and what he hasn't....)?

I get the impression that the vendor thinks the 432 is somehow the coolest and most collectable car in his Z-specific 'portfolio', and has brought Mecum with him on that. Kind of the blind leading the blind in that respect. An early 432 in good, original and un-monkeyed-with condition would indeed be the Creme De La Kremlin in such a collection, but this particular 432 has had a very bumpy ride through life and I don't see it as being worth anywhere near the lower estimate (325k USD?). It doesn't even live up to its auction description, let alone anything else. It's a nice enough car, but it's a long way from what they are saying it is.

It's the 'The Mike and Debbie Rogers Datsun Collection' that you need to search for: https://www.mecum.com/auctions/monterey-2023/lots/?wp_posts_lot_feature_sort_asc[configure][filters]=&wp_posts_lot_feature_sort_asc[refinementList][taxonomies.auction_tax.name][0]=Monterey 2023|1692230400|1692403200&wp_posts_lot_feature_sort_asc[refinementList][taxonomies.collection_tax.name][0]=The Mike and Debbie Rogers Datsun Collection|0|0&wp_posts_lot_feature_sort_asc[sortBy]=wp_posts_lot_sort_order_asc It's not *just* 240Zs.

A couple of people have contacted me to ask some more about the car. One question was, "...is it really a 1969-built car?", because the Mecum auction description is calling 'PS30-00105' a "1969 Datsun Fairlady Z432." Of course, it's not a 'Datsun' (it's a Nissan...) and it wasn't built in 1969 either. 'PS30' prefixed cars built in 1969 ended with 'PS30-00072' and 1970 production started with 'PS30-00073'. Clearly 'PS30-00105' is an early 1970 build date car, not 1969. So, another little elephant trap for an unwary buyer to fall into.

Indeed, I very much doubt that Mecum would bother. Their small print covers them in any case. I would guess that the owner/vendor is responsible for some of what is written about the car in the Mecum listings and their supporting media, and he is aware of the car's history.

That's a bigger ask than you possibly realise. Mecum's online blurbs claim that the car "...showcases originality and authenticity." Their line with "The silver exterior..." might indicate that much of the description is cut-and-pasted from another auction listing. In any case, it is wrong. The listing claims that the car was "restored" twice, once in Japan and once in "London" (in fact, bodyshell work was performed in Wales and disassembly-reassembly in Kent). Judge for yourself whether the work done in Japan would qualify the car as "restored", let alone remaining original and authentic: https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/68418-best-botches-bodges-and-balls-ups It took a lot of work to reverse most of that. The car received replacement front wings/fenders, bonnet/hood, doors, both rear quarter panels, complete rear panel and floor panels. Many, many 432-specific parts were either missing or had been modified by previous owner(s) and many of the generic 1970 S30-series parts (interior diamond vinyl trim, interior plastic panels, door panels, carpets etc) were either missing or too damaged to re-use. For example, a pair of 1970 HLS30U seats had to be used in lieu of the correct 1970 PS30-D seats (therefore the 'flip forward' lever function is missing) and some of the dash gauges were re-painted to simulate their original specs. The owner made some somewhat strange decisions regarding finishes (look at that tail lamp trim panel) and also chose to simply leave some non-original parts as-found. For example, the front brake calipers were from an R32 GT-R and the differential was an open R180 unit when the car would have left the factory with a 4.44:1 ratio 2-pinion LSD R192 unit fitted. They remained on the car when it was sold to the owner in the USA. The Mecum description claims the car has an R192 diff, but I doubt that is the case. My impression is that the owner wouldn't know the difference, but the lack of the original differential completely changes the essential character of a 432. So, "originality and authenticity"? Not really. It's a nice enough car now (the extensive work performed on the bodyshell in the UK brought it back from the brink, I'd say) and would make a very usable and practical daily driver, but in my opinion it isn't the "exceptional investment opportunity for collectors" that Mecum claim. Yes, that's just sales patter and they all do it, but my worry is that some well-intentioned but not so well-informed buyer might end up believing he's getting Snow White when he's actually getting Joan Rivers. Due Diligence required.

Not seeing much talk about the Mecum sale of 'The Mike and Debbie Rogers Datsun Collection' in Monterey over the next couple of days. I hope anyone who bids on the 1970 Nissan Fairlady Z432 (PS30-00105) is well informed regarding its history and its current specification/parts content, as there are a number of inaccuracies in Mecum's listing and in their description of the car. https://www.mecum.com/lots/1088316/1970-nissan-fairlady-z432/

Lots of "standard 240Z" in the mix there, but what does "standard 240Z" mean? What market variant? What gearing? Emissions-mitigating equipment, or not? 150bhp? A nice figure to put on sales brochures and engine bay tags, but I wouldn't use it for calculations like these. Especially when actual power depended on the territory the variant was made for.

Hmmm. That's an open R180 where a 4.44:1 2-pinion LSD R192 should be. Better make sure that's mentioned when it comes up for sale, otherwise your description that the car "...showcases originality and authenticity..." might not turn out to be as accurate as a buyer would hope.

Brushwork. Cutting in. Never as easy as you think...

Aha! It was originally a #905 Red car:

Same car. Tunnel and floor. Assorted strange patch welding, fibreglassing and a mixture of brush painting and spray painting. Flash sometimes making #918 look like #920. Nice attention to detail. If it doesn't move, paint it :

Hi Ali, There's some potential for confusion here between the full-length engine bay undertray of the 432-R (as homologated for race use, made from FRP) and the much shorter splash pan (steel, as fitted to other models) which were designed to perform different functions. The 432-R undertray has a reputation for causing overheating in normal street use during hot weather (it was designed to be used on circuit, at higher speeds of course) and I guess Mr. F would know what he was talking about with regard to the steel splash pan, although I imagine the effect would be less pronounced. Here's what the 432-R undertray looked like:

Important that any self-respecting botcher and bodger uses the very cheapest and most unsuitable material for the job, of course 😉

I believe that, after their merger, Nissan had use of the ex-Prince research facilities at Ogikubo, which was linked to Tokyo Daigaku's Aerospace department? I also remember reading that Prince, and subsequently Nissan, had sponsored students in Tōdai's Aerospace department around that period via a bursary scheme. Nissan took over Prince's satellite-launching rocket program, I think? Here are a few stills from one section of the Maru Z Keikaku Suishin Iinkai films. I had believed that this impressive array of research equipment was either part of the full-size Nissan wind tunnel that came on stream in 1969, or was part of the facilities at Ogikubo. We can see both full-size (silver pre-production car?) and scale model research taking place. Maybe the filming even took place at both locations?

I totally get why they would have been going with the 'Blunt' nose name for the more aero-efficient 240ZG front end, following on from NASA's use of the term and their pioneering research which they would have been referencing (yes, I think 'Blant' is just a typical Katakana-linked mistake) but I think it is counter-intuitive. I'm kind of glad that they went with 'Grand' (I have often seen it spelled as 'Grande' in period Nissan documentation) as I think it is an apt descriptor.

Quick question, Kats. Was the thesis connected to the University of Tokyo's department of Aerodynamics and Aeronautics?

Great data Kats. Thank you for posting. About the 'Blunt Nose' vs 'Grande Nose' story: I think there was always a little bit of confusion mixed up with the 'Blunt' nose naming, possibly not helped by Japanese vs English language meanings. 'Blunt' vs 'sharp'. What's the opposite of 'Blunt'? 'Sharp', right? In aero terms, we might easily think that something 'Blunt' does not cut through the air very well. That's how I think of the stock Z front end. It has a big open mouth which resists passing through the air. On the other hand, the 240ZG's front end reduced that big open mouth and channeled air over, under and around it. It cuts through the air more efficiently. So is the 240ZG's nose sharp, or blunt? Confusing, isn't it?! In the end I think it was a good decision not to use the term 'Blunt Nose', even if I can understand the NASA_derived thinking. But still, the term DID make it into some of Nissan's factory documentation:

That sounds rather ominous...