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1970 240Z Works Rally - the road to restoration


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Thanks for the encouragement, @HS30-H! I'm familiar with Kevin's car, and its fascinating to consider that these cars rallied together (one from the front of the pack, and one waaaay in the back!)  Although they are only one year apart in assembly, we can already begin to see some product development occurring. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Kevin's must be one of the last lightweight spec cars produced, prior to going to steel and glass?

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Fun to see us talking about rally cars again.  We had some great discussions back in 2006 - 2007.  I was told that this car is HS30-00026 adding a little pedigree to my beauty.  I still have a massive collection of images which were 'hoovered' back in the day.  Hope the restoration is the best of times.

HS30-00026_696 - 71 welsh.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Congratulations on your attendance at a car show ! And thank you so much for sharing your car’s details with us .

I am so excited about seeing your genuine Works rally car , it is so fascinating. You must have been dedicated to the car  , I just imagine how difficult it is to collect the rare of the rare parts . Also you must have spent a lot of time to confirm it’s provenance.

You have Alan , he is the best enthusiast to ask , I am enjoying this thread , a lot of new things to learn .

One thing I would like to know is , the speed meter . Max 180 km/h , this is not a usual thing for Fairlady Z series for 1969-1973 . They have Max 240 km/h scale . Is that a Works special or, normal scale for Australia or some other destinations? 
 

Kevin’s Works car has also 180 km/h scale . 
 

Kats

9F33C422-5536-4E3B-99B3-0E2CB336AE23.png

Edited by kats
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On 6/16/2022 at 9:54 AM, HS30-H said:

The silver vertical is only one part of the heated screen system. There are zig-zagging horizontal elements embedded in the glass (just like a modern heated 'screen) which cover at least 90% of the glass. They are very effective.   

Here's a close-up of the lower-right corner of the glass, showing the pattern and coverage.  It's very fine, to the point where one does not notice it when seated in the cockpit, apart from the main vein going up the middle.  

IMG_9919.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

Hi @kats I'm glad you are joining the conversation!  My Speedo looks exactly like the one you pictured - reading in km/h to 180- as does the 8K Works Tach.  Some of the central gauges differed as development advanced.  Thankfully, 986's gauges seem to match other 1970-build examples, most notably 8D-420, and it's sister car TKS33-SA-988, so I'm guessing the gauges that are installed are correct for this particular batch of cars.

Edited by xs10shl
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, xs10shl said:

Hi @kats I'm glad you are joining the conversation!  My Speedo looks exactly like the one you pictured - reading in km/h to 180- as does the 8K Works Tach.  Some of the central gauges differed as development advanced.  Thankfully, 986's gauges seem to match other 1970-build examples, most notably 8D-420, and it's sister car TKS33-SA-988, so I'm guessing the gauges that are installed are correct for this particular batch of cars.

Thanks ! I have zero knowledge  and zero experience for rally, but this speedometer makes me think it needs to be . For average speed , no need 240 km/h scale  ? 180 km/h scale gives better read for accurate speed control for time keeping? 
 
Super cool car !

Kats

Edited by kats
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14 hours ago, 26th-Z said:

Fun to see us talking about rally cars again.  We had some great discussions back in 2006 - 2007.  I was told that this car is HS30-00026 adding a little pedigree to my beauty.  I still have a massive collection of images which were 'hoovered' back in the day.  Hope the restoration is the best of times.

HS30-00026_696 - 71 welsh.jpg

Yes, that's Tony Fall and Mike Wood on a typical Forestry Commission track special stage of the 1971 Fram Castrol International Welsh Rally, in 'TKS 33 SA 696' - the Works team car that John Bloxham had used on the 1970 RAC Rally five months previously - which had been loaned by the Works team and was serviced by Old Woking Service Station.

They won outright! This was the second international rally win for the 240Z, following Herrmann & Schuller's win on the East African Safari Rally in April.    

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5 hours ago, kats said:

Thanks ! I have zero knowledge  and zero experience for rally, but this speedometer makes me think it needs to be . For average speed , no need 240 km/h scale  ? 180 km/h scale gives better read for accurate speed control for time keeping? 

 

I think the pattern was that Safari cars had 240 km/h speedos, probably because some pretty high sustained speeds were possible on certain sections and the was no legal speed limit. Monte and RAC cars would tend to see lower sustained stage speeds, and would have to conform to local speed limits on the road sections which linked the special stages.

Yes, an accurate speedo would be of use to the driver when being required to maintain a certain speed on the road sections, but the navigator had the Haldas and Heuers to help with that too. It was the navigator's job to make sure that they checked in - and out - of time controls, service points and Parc Ferme on time. Navigator is the boss!      

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12 hours ago, xs10shl said:

Thankfully, 986's gauges seem to match other 1970-build examples, most notably 8D-420, and it's sister car TKS33-SA-988

@xs10shl do you have a list of the Kanri numbers for the rally cars? I've seen some that start with "RF" and others with "8D", they must have come out of different workshops. Some of the race cars have the "8D" prefix as well. How did your car end up with the Kanri number on the dashboard?

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The dash Kanri has a short story, and If I tell all the stories up front, there won't be anything left to discuss in the coming year 😄.  I have so much material to get to and share, and I look forward to discussing it all.  Thanks for your enthusiasm and interest, much more to come!

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On 6/15/2022 at 3:25 PM, Marty Rogan said:

Can you give us some of the car's history and how you came to own it?

Thanks for your inquiry, Marty.  Here's an snip from my blog, which covers the basics:

Today I'm pretty confident I know most of the big pieces of the car's story. That said, I'm guessing there are still many more pieces to discover. I'll post here what my existing body of research concludes, and if there are any questions, comments, additions (and even rebuttals), I'll take them as they come.

TKS33-SA-986 Rally History

-------------------------------------

07/1970 Tub manufacture – 7/1970 to 8/1970

09/1970 Assembly and outfitting (based on wiring harness date codes)

10/1970 Registered with Carnet plate TKS33-SA-986 (approximate time-period)

01/1971 40th Rallye Monte-Carlo (#70 Fall/Wood): 10th Place overall

03/1971 Sold To Rob Janssen – Datsun Nederland (approximate time-period)

04/1971 Zandvoort Paas Races (#61 Janssen): 4th place overall

09/1971 Registered with plate 67-54-RU

11/1971 RAC Rally of Great Britain (#96 Janssen/Dik): DNF - retired

Post-1971: I've got no data that it was ever rallied again. This makes some sense, due to the 1972 FIA rule changes which prohibited the use of lightweight body panels on rally cars.

 

145855476_3805350792836808_2524815165698617743_n.jpg

side closeup bw.jpg

RAC.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

Prior to a teardown and proper restoration, I thought it would be worthwhile to put one more event on my calendar - but this time, instead of showing up unannounced, we've scheduled a (very rudimentary, but hopefully informative!) Nissan Works mini-exhibit featuring the car at this year's JCCS at Long Beach in September.  I hope to have the opportunity to meet other enthusiasts and rally fans there, and have a chance to share with attendees some of the features that I feel help make the Works cars special to me.  JCCS is a great show - probably the best all-Japanese show outside of Japan that I know of, and thankfully it's close enough that we can get there in a day. 

The pressure is on now to get a exhibit ready, and configure a few remaining details to the car that I've yet to make right.  More on that in a bit!

https://japaneseclassiccarshow.com/1970-datsun-240-z-works-rally-lightweight-monte-carlo-spec-at-jccs/

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@SpeedRoopreviously asked about the Kanri number on the dashboard at the spot where there would normally be a pen holder. It's surmised that this was most likely placed there by a previous owner, as it is not a factory inclusion that appears in any period photos.  @HS30-H had clued me into the fact that these rally pen holders were actually still readily available, so I bought several of them with the thought that I'd have to retrofit one with some sort of mount, in order to properly affix it to the dashboard. In stock form, they appear to be designed as clip-ons for a clipboard, or other hard, thin surface.  With some samples of the pen holder in-hand, I elected to take a chance and finally remove the Kanri badge, and hopefully re-fashion a new pen holder and custom mount to be placed in the same location.

I had always suspected that the Kanri badge was simply a decoration that covered up some form of glue blemish or tear left by the original holder when the car was converted to street use. However, I was happy to be mistaken - after a little careful prying, the badge came off, revealing a precise 1/2" slit and groove that had been cut into the dashboard.  The groove fit the new pen holder snugly, so after a little massaging, I managed to situate the new pen holder pretty much as it appeared in period photos.  Job done!

2E24DF9A-090D-4749-A4F8-1C29C5B8DC29.jpeg

 

BDAA4F47-2A2E-4627-9F00-2113C5A72FD5.jpeg

 

8F1DF933-5F38-4018-87B3-6F7BED502FD2.jpeg

 

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

I just want to subscribe to follow along. I love seeing details on these cars and learning more about them.

I'm curious if this car ran the competition CDI ignition box (Mitsubishi?) orange / white colour? And if so, where they mounted it? Under the dash? Did they run points distributor or have some kind of electronic / reluctor / pickup signal?

Oh and any photos of the engine bay yet? Or do we need to wait? 🙂

Edited by Gav240z
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Posted (edited)
On 8/23/2022 at 5:41 PM, Gav240z said:

I just want to subscribe to follow along. I love seeing details on these cars and learning more about them.

I'm curious if this car ran the competition CDI ignition box (Mitsubishi?) orange / white colour? And if so, where they mounted it? Under the dash? Did they run points distributor or have some kind of electronic / reluctor / pickup signal?

Oh and any photos of the engine bay yet? Or do we need to wait? 🙂

With respect to the CDI - the car currently has a special points-based distributor on it, which is the same kind as found on another Works car, and is potentially the same as an early L24 distributor, AFAIK.  I've mapped out the entire wiring harness as shown below - this harness is in 2 parts (split at the fuse boxes) and has 2 Works part numbers, and date codes of 9/70 and 8/70, respectively.  On the assumption that the wiring harness gets installed first, I've used this information to date the Works build as likely being 9/70 to 10/70, which would give the team about 45 days to test and ship the cars off to Monte Carlo.  

This particular harness contains no additional wiring to accommodate a CDI, as would appear in a Z432 with CDI of the same era.  That said, there has been some private discussion about whether a CDI was used via an alternate means, as there is evidence of it's use in similar period Works cars.   In the case of my car, it's use would likely be facilitated via a separately wired harness, which is no longer with the car.  As to an interface to the existing harness: there is a missing 6" sub harness at the steering column that has been replaced with a later-period custom harness. This could very easily have been the junction point where a CDI could have been connected, as much of the relevant wiring would be there. This is marked as "UNKNOWN" on the wiring diagram.  It should be noted that this is just pure speculation at this point.

FYI, the above is my most current information, based on what I've already mapped out.  It's entirely possible we may find more wiring surprises buried under the dash when we start the restoration process.  Barring any revelations re: CDI, I'll likely restore it as-acquired, without it.

Wiring Diagram.jpg

Edited by xs10shl
Corrected distributor info
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2 hours ago, 240zadmire said:

Found the tire size and type

 

http://zhome.com/BRETotal/Tires/BajaTires.htm

225/70R14's have a diameter of 26.4". Those tires would be ideally suited for lifted rally cars, and provide great ground clearance, but may be too large a tire for my application. The original Dunlop XP44 are NLA as far as I can tell, so I went with Goodyear Wrangler LT195/75R14s which have an outer circumference of 25.5".  To my eye, even these Wranglers appear to be just slightly too tall, and may rub once I lower the car to it's Monte-Carlo spec ride height.  There are also a few ATV off-road options in 14".

 

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Posted (edited)

I really love seeing those piles of rally tires ! 
Today I am hopeless about 14 inches off-road tires in Japan .We have many cool tread patterns but they are all for 15 inches or bigger wheels. 
I have stored Michelin XWX 205/70-14 ( I was thinking about if I buy a Dino 246 ! ) , so far this is my least choice for fatty bigger tire for my Zs when I want some feelings of rally car.

Kats

04473978-AEAF-4A75-A0EC-CCC4B0C170B5.jpeg

13130E11-67D6-4956-B566-CE8A38491599.jpeg

Edited by kats
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