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xs10shl last won the day on September 16 2016

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  1. My own "theory" on the 240ZR is mostly based on my own, admittedly limited experience, and privately held understanding. Clarifications are always welcomed and appreciated. While it's true that the chassis number of a factory "ZR" does not exhibit a code signifying a "ZR" designation (that I've ever seen), one entirely significant differentiator that I'm aware of is that at least some (Most?/All?) factory "240ZR" cars will have an L24 installed in a hybrid/bespoke chassis, which for the sake of argument I'll call an "-R" chassis, because it bears a mild resemblance to the 432-R chassis - similar in some key ways, but also different in key ways. With this understanding, the presence of such an "-R" chassis in an S30 with a standard "S" or "HLS" stamped serial number would cause me (rightly or wrongly) to categorize that specific example as a "ZR". The only thing I can add is that all the factory S30 Works cars that I've ever seen - maybe 6 or so (out of perhaps 50?) - are thus configured. Works cars of course have other key bits and pieces that one would not find on a street car or privateer car. What I'm unable to speak to is whether all L24-powered cars with the before-mentioned hybrid/bespoke "-R" chassis are Works or Works-prepped cars, or whether there are genuine "ZR" cars that are rightly called so, even though they have stock S30 production chassis. This knowledge would be above my pay grade.
  2. A sure sign the conversation is ending: a totally different car from a totally different era is presented as an alternate-use-case to whatever is currently being discussed.
  3. I can't speak to ownership of #13, but in my experience, I've found the opposite largely to be true. Cars that were once owned by known individuals knowledgeable about the marque tend to be worth a percentage more. Cars owned by celebrities and dictators alike can be worth double. And don't get me started on the many multiples over retail that people will pay for a car that was once owned by Steve McQueen.
  4. One might also consider that 2000cc is an important number when it comes to race eligibility. Perhaps an L24 can be stroked to add lots more horsepower than an S20, but that point is largely moot, because a car with an L24 would be ineligible to participate in an "under 2000cc" race regardless. The S20-powered car could happily compete with it's period 2000cc peers, and the L24-powered car might be thrown into a 3 liter class or larger. For a "like-for-like" 2000cc displacement, compare the L20 to the S20 as the period JDM market did, and many (perhaps most) concluded that the S20 was the better engine. That said, only 420 people concluded it was worth finding a way to pay double the list price of an S30 for a PS30, which is what makes the car so rare today.
  5. I admire this part greatly, with perhaps a touch of envy. Keep finding rare parts such as these, and posting pictures for us.
  6. Just based on my experience, it's almost always impossible to explain to people why I put a larger dollar value on a car like a Z432 vs, say, a stock 1970 Z, or even a modified Z with a Rubello engine. The difference between these examples happens to matter to me, but I acknowledge I'm in the super-minority. I can confirm the same arguments are heard across Marques. There are plenty of enthusiasts with a 1973 Porsche 911 who wonder why their car is only worth $50,000, while the guy with the 1973 RS can sell his for $1,000,000. Or why the guy with the 1960 Ferrari 250 PF II cabriolet sells his car for $2 million, while the guy with the 250 LWB California - nearly the exact same car, save for a few body panels- gets $14 million for his. The nerdy answer fundamentally is that there are enough marque fanatics who are students of the differences, and a select few more that have the means to insist on buying only the top-end specifications, thus creating a market spread. In the case of the Z432, there are perhaps less than 200 surviving examples to choose from, in various states of originality, so when one comes up, you either buy it, or wait (potentially a long while) for the next one.
  7. This hasn't been my experience as to how the classic car market works. Variants affect desireability and price, and range topping models can trade for huge premiums. it's the reason why one 1970 Barracuda will sell for $35,000, and another will bring $4,000,000, thanks almost exclusively to what numbers are on the VIN. Its also the same reason why your early 1970 model brings a premium in the marketplace over a 72, and a 69 in similar condition will be worth more than both. All things being equal, and putting sentiment aside, would you trade your car straight up for a 73? For a 69? For one of the first 20 cars? Just based on what I've seen over the years, the market would value each of these trades differently, even though in this example, they are all nearly identical and special 240Zs. I'd assert that the Z432 is not a 240Z - I'm not placing judgement here on whether it's ultimately a better or worse model (we are each entitled to our own opinions, and it's been my experience that you can rarely sway any enthusiast on their opinions on ANY make and model, so I don't even try). I'm just saying they are not the same car, and I've experienced that they are traditionally not valued the same in the marketplace, which until very recently, was almost exclusively in Japan. On the face of things, valuing any make and model of old car at more than "parts value" is a silly endeavor, yet there's a ton of people, including myself, who do it all the time.
  8. With the crash of the Yen vs the dollar over the past year, $150K for a Z432 with needs, located in Japan, feels very expensive. That said, the 69 car is of interest to me. As far as the Ameila Island Z432 goes (just talking numbers now) - typical in the Auction world, the "first through the gate" always gets the lions share of the attention and profits. Examples that follow can struggle to achieve price parity, especially for cars that trade in a thin market. That would seem to suggest that this Z432 should do well. The real indicator will be what the price of the next two or 3 examples will bring. I've always lived by the rule that a minimum of 3 well-advertised cars and published sales equals a price trend. I myself am not convinced that Amelia auction-goers will buy into the significance of the Z432, because if their unfamiliarity with it. In the United States, the 240Z is the car that people know and love, so it remains to be seen whether someone will pay 4-5X for a car which "looks" like the model they know, but isnt. And yes, I get that auctions are a global event, and not just limited to American buyers- but in Scottsdale in January, there were very vew phone bidders when compared to last year. I'm making the assumption the same will happen at Amelia. We will know more in a few weeks!
  9. This has just been my experience, but If you follow the rules set by most agreed-value insurance companies (sparingly drive your car, store it indoors, fawn over it) then most of them will gladly insure your car for top dollar, because they make more money that way. I'd also venture to say that owners of top cars who want top dollar insurance are probably statistically less likely to put their car repeatedly in a situation where it will get damaged. This makes it an even better bet for insurers.
  10. Just an opinion - I've always felt there's less point in creating a replica GTO if you're not going to use a Ferrari 250 GT as your donor chassis. IMHO, part of what makes these cars special is how they look, AND how they feel/sound/ride/handle - something which really can only be duplicated if you're using similar parts. A quality Ferrari-based GTO replica used to run about $250K maybe 6-7 years ago - these days much, much more.
  11. I've used WayGo on my iPhone for a while. It does an OK job for small phrases:
  12. I wonder if there was an earlier planned version of the comp roll bar which was screwed between the rear sill and the roof.
  13. If you look across the broader spectrum of 60s to early 70s sports car selling prices over the last few years you'll see the same price increase almost across the board for well known global-market cars. E-types went from $125k to north of $300k, and 71-73 porsche 911s have tripled in price. A BMW 3.0 CSI was a 15 to 20k car forever, and all of a sudden it now costs over $50k for one you'd want to own. An early countach was $400k a few years ago, now they are $1.8 million. In this context it's not too surprising that late 60's and early 70s Japanese cars are following the trend. As the interest bell-curve edges towards cars of the mid 70s and newer, we will likely see more of that. At the same time, we'll see a decline in interest for the more common pre-war cars, and those prices will not keep up with inflation. Some selling prices appear skewed when it comes to fully restored cars - it can take $100k of more to restore most cars to concours levels, and more buyers are willing to pay a premium for true #1 cars, which skews the market for cars typically valued at far less than that. I think it would be a real litmus test to see a concours-restored, certified Z nationals winner cross the block. I would not be surprised any longer to see an eye-popping result. (Note, this is not to say that all the Japanese cars that sold in August were concours examples. I saw them all in person, and IMHO not all were concours).
  14. Looks like the chandelier couldn't come up with the money. You rarely make as much the second time.