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Size Specs/Dimensions for 240Z Original Choke Cable Rubber Bellows?


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A part that is almost always long gone on our 240z's, I am hoping to find a nearly identical to factory replacement "rubber bellows" for the choke cables for the car I am restoring.  Somewhere in my thousands of hours of web-surfing, I found this picture of some of the originals:

s-l1600.jpg

 

Does anyone have any originals that they could pull some measurements off of?  I am looking for dimensional details of both the boots and the collars/clamps that secure the boot to the cable and sheath.  I would like to fabricate the collars... but I need more info.

Here are some boots I am hoping are close enough:

IMG_20210726_194811.jpg

IMG_20210726_194911.jpg

IMG_20210726_195044.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Patcon said:

Where did you find those?

I came across them after doing searches for rubber bellows.  It seems remote control boats use them.  Search "rubber bellows boat model" on ebay.  I had to buy a pack of 10, but they are cheap.  

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Posted (edited)

They look pretty close. Im not sure I would worry about getting closer than that

 

Edit: you might could scale the picture of the originals until the cable jacket is correct. Then take dimensions from the picture. We would do this all the time in Architecture

Edited by Patcon
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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, zKars said:

The sum total of my choke cable boot collection. 

image.jpg

 

Nice - thanks for grabbing those and a pic.  So, are you able to provide any details about the collars?  Looking at the pic, it seems there were differences in how tall the collars/bands were.  How thick is the metal they are made from?  Is there just one dimple on the circumference, or more than one?  Are they 6 sided?  They don't look round... which I find odd.  For the bellows, can you measure the rough overall length?  How wide are they at the fat part of the bellow, and at the thin part?  I have cables and can measure the outer diameter (OD) of the cable housing.  I just haven't done so yet.

Edited by inline6
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I’ll give details in the morning. 

The collars are all hexagonal, some variety in them for sure. Bet they were round then crimped with a hex shaped crimper, kinda like a TV coax crimper.

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Posted (edited)

Does your car have the new style choke cable assembly (1972) or the early 70/71 style? Looking at the BaT sale for your car, it looks like the early type. The early type did not have the rubber bellows. I know this because I accidentally bought a 1972 style choke cable assembly and had to remove the bellows to use it in my 1970. Even then it was a problem because the new style cables are shorter. If your car has three screw carbs they might work as I believe the linkage was different than the four screw carbs on mine.

 I ended up selling it and repairing my broken early cable. Here is a discussion from when I sold it on here,

Here are a couple more pics I took before I sold it.

20170502_092332.jpg

20170501_164149.jpg

 

For reference, here is an image from the parts book. You can see the bellows on the "new type" and none on the early one.

image.png

Edited by CanTechZ
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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, CanTechZ said:

Does your car have the new style choke cable assembly (1972) or the early 70/71 style? Looking at the BaT sale for your car, it looks like the early type. The early type did not have the rubber bellows. I know this because I accidentally bought a 1972 style choke cable assembly and had to remove the bellows to use it in my 1970. Even then it was a problem because the new style cables are shorter. If your car has three screw carbs they might work as I believe the linkage was different than the four screw carbs on mine.

 For reference, here is an image from the parts book. You can see the bellows on the "new type" and none on the early one.

image.png


Interesting.  I may not need these after all.  I am looking at the fitment information.  How can I tell when the later type was utilized?  Assembly is #20 in the image:

image.png

Edited by inline6
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I believe, It was started 09/71, the one I had was a 18410-E8803, but I think 18410-E8800 was actually the first version on the "new design" and it started 09/71.

image.png

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Here is what my early choke cable assembly looks like. There is not enough room for the bellows after accounting for full travel of the choke.

20200503_112946.jpg

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Took a break from stub axle assembly. My favorite after a fresh thick powder coating and it rubs EVERYWHERE!!!! Grrrrr..

Let me know if you need more details

557CB765-49BC-4399-B993-B68B88CDBB9B.jpeg

3349AB91-C46B-425C-807D-E2B3E4C0840C.jpeg

0BCFB600-E32D-4888-A104-C95D0C6CC637.jpeg

6DE32003-DBF6-4F30-BFA4-D49312E763DA.jpeg

2A1CD2AF-B596-4D24-BF64-9D10F413B251.jpeg

822B8ACA-6162-48C4-A2F3-73BD3F6D8C35.jpeg

298B16D6-57D7-4406-8384-310F89AB5B23.jpeg

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Posted (edited)
On 7/30/2021 at 2:12 PM, zKars said:

Took a break from stub axle assembly. My favorite after a fresh thick powder coating and it rubs EVERYWHERE!!!! Grrrrr..

Let me know if you need more details

Thanks for the measurements.  The boots I have a bit small.  They are not as wide at the fat part of the bellows and they are only 1.6 inches long from end to end.  I put one on the cable and the id on each end is a good fit.  I think it is 1 mm id on one end and it is 6 mm id on the other. 

IMG_20210729_221540.jpg  IMG_20210729_221601.jpg

Maybe the info here will help someone else, as my carbs don't utilize the later style cables with boots.

IMG_20200227_194439.jpg

IMG_20200227_194520.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by inline6
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Posted (edited)

I'm also of the opinion that your car did not originally have bellows, as they appear to have started for the 1972 model year in 9/71. I have never seen what are called complete assemblies (early type) offered for sale with them. Not saying there is anything wrong with adding them.

Here are some measurements that might help with adding them, for anyone who is interested. The travel required for full motion of the choke linkage is 1-1/8" and the compressed length of the bellows must be 3/4" or less. This is based on open and closed measurements I just took from my carbs, and I also checked at the choke lever on a drawing from a parametric 3D model I created a few years ago.

Choke linkage travel - early type.jpg

Choke lever travel - early type.JPG

Hope this info helps anyone trying to add bellows,

Cheers Mike

Edited by CanTechZ
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21 hours ago, inline6 said:

"Maybe the info here will help someone else, as my carbs don't utilize the later style cables with boots."

 

Hey, @inline6I missed reading this part of your post so I edited mine above a bit. BTW your carbs look great, are they from ZTherapy?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, CanTechZ said:

Hey, @inline6I missed reading this part of your post so I edited mine above a bit. BTW your carbs look great, are they from ZTherapy?

Paltech, actually.  Jeff was great.  My 4 screw carbs were in very good condition and I wanted them to be the ones I got back.  ZTherapy told me that I had to accept an exchanged set - they would not rebuild mine and send them back to me.  That works for most I guess, but my first 240Z SU carbs had a few issues that I would not have liked if I received a set with "repairs", and I didn't want to take the gamble.
 

I dis-assembled a bit too far evidently, as some of the parts are plated as an assembly (choke linkage I think), and I had some extra parts plated at the same time, so the charge was a bit more, but I am very happy with them.  It's going to be a lot of fun pulling all of my stash of new and refurbed parts out when it becomes time to put the car back together.

Edited by inline6
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46 minutes ago, inline6 said:

Paltech, actually.  Jeff was great.  My 4 screw carbs were in very good condition and I wanted them to be the ones I got back.  ZTherapy told me that I had to accept an exchanged set - they would not rebuild mine and send them back to me.  That works for most I guess, but my first 240Z SU carbs had a few issues that I would not have liked if I received a set with "repairs", and I didn't want to take the gamble.
 

I dis-assembled a bit too far evidently, as some of the parts are plated as an assembly (choke linkage I think), and I had some extra parts plated at the same time, so the charge was a bit more, but I am very happy with them.  It's going to be a lot of fun pulling all of my stash of new and refurbed parts out when it becomes time to put the car back together.

Thanks for this, I like the idea of getting your own carbs back as well. His prices look very reasonable.

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12 hours ago, CanTechZ said:

Paltech, actually.  Jeff was great. 

Jeff Palya at Paltech was the only person I could find to do flat top carbs. Very courteous and customer oriented.  Beautiful work---came back like jewelry!

Price was very good (but not cheap) considering the work done, as Mike said above. Only place that assured me that whatever carbs I sent would be the same carbs returned, as inline6 said.

I have had him do 4 screw rounds tops also. Same quality. Over polished if anything.

A word of caution---the work he does is very good----but go over your carbs carefully when you get them back to ensure that everything is adjusted properly according to the FSM. I had to reset the internal fuel nozzles on the flat tops to get them right. Didn't figure that out until ---once installed--- the carbs didn't run correctly at all. Had to remove them (PITA with flat tops) and adjust them, reinstalled and all was good.

A lot easier to do on round tops, but thought I would mention it for others to note and keep in mind.

 

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I was on a similar search for the brake cable boot for my Datsun 520.  My solution was a a bicycle cable boot.

I recommend you expand your search to include bike and motorcycle components.

Let us know your success and failures.

Keith

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