Av8ferg

L28 from 82 ZX teardown

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    This is down the road but you might as well read up when your piled up in a hotel room.

    Check Blues Tech Tips for the ZX to Z distributor upgrade if you got the ZX distributor with the motor.

    Check the ZX alternator upgrade to. I think you need a plug off a ZX to splice into your Zs. Something to snag from a pick and pull you go to when your bored.

     

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    ZH, I get your point. I’m not trying to avoid work but actually wanted a project. I don’t want throw money down the drain for no reason but putting a new chain and guide isn’t a big deal.

    I thought that the EFI could handle a higher CR, if not that’s true then it’s a major consideration. I want a a reliable, smooth and string engine that will be installed in a restored car.

     

    BTW here’s the order form from the yard. It has some info but this is all I know about the engine. Actually has the VIN of the car the engine came from.

    1578346ede196ede47e207d763a1e940.jpg

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    I had a warranty just like that so I hooked up my spare EFI system to make sure it ran right.  You'll be well past 30 days by the time it runs so really you don't have a warranty.  Probably fine, they're tough engines.

    I was just trying to get a feel for how detailed your plan is.  

    You could run a carb and go crazy and have more flexibility.

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    @Reptoid Overlords

    Is about to crank his project. I'm sure you've read something about it? I'm almost positive he had it in an apartment in the beginning. That's way better than riding a motorcycle upstairs to go to Mardi Gras for a couple of weeks. That was easy except for the hard turn I didn't make at the top. :facepalm:

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    [mention=31744]Reptoid Overlords[/mention]
    Is about to crank his project. I'm sure you've read something about it? I'm almost positive he had it in an apartment in the beginning. That's way better than riding a motorcycle upstairs to go to Mardi Gras for a couple of weeks. That was easy except for the hard turn I didn't make at the top. :facepalm:

    Cliff, you lost me on that post, are you drinking?


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    1 hour ago, Av8ferg said:


    Cliff, you lost me on that post, are you drinking?


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    Sometimes!! :beer:

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    11 hours ago, Av8ferg said:


    Cliff, you lost me on that post, are you drinking?


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    It's my closed head trauma from '97 plus a few 16oz beers. LOL

    I'll fill in the blanks later today.

     

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    [mention=31744]Reptoid Overlords[/mention]

    Is about to crank his project. I'm sure you've read something about it? I'm almost positive he had it in an apartment in the beginning. That's way better than riding a motorcycle upstairs to go to Mardi Gras for a couple of weeks. That was easy except for the hard turn I didn't make at the top. default_facepalm.gif

    Mine has been in a garage mostly. The last apartment I lived in I rode my Honda scooter into the lobby and into the elevator because I didn't want it to get stolen. Mostly drunk.

     

    I've just gotten my engine installed in the car, and am pretty close to firing it up.

     

    It's an F54/P79 out of an '82. It ran well when it was in the donor car. About 155k miles if I remember.

     

    I kept the block as is, in other words, I didn't rebuild it. Just re sealed it. I did run hot compression checks in it when it was still in the rust pile it came out of. It was even across in the high 170's. I got lucky.

     

    Anyway, I had the head shaved .080 as per the Z car garage write up. I gave the machine shop the parts and he installed them for me. It cost me about $350 after parts and labor.

     

    It's kind of a budget modified build. Family comes first.

     

    If you want the parts I used, I'll list them for you. When I get it running, I'll let you know how it goes.

    dac45a58db88c380bd2e52d97f0d772e.jpg&key=6eca24600f1c4ad4dceaeac96b09ed24a07f82c84b5b02dd635b213142a44c25f0f105002454ed3b663b6c78e29d14f0.jpg&key=df0c6dd1d0da9382f76914b8b42c7350df042d0e5d952b420e441de134a398b5cae146887c5deec551879ec7bc932f40.jpg&key=c42078403ffecb5ae150f84b1fab502c04ebecf115055dfc5f9db007aa720c01

     

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    3 hours ago, Reptoid Overlords said:

    Mine has been in a garage mostly. The last apartment I lived in I rode my Honda scooter into the lobby and into the elevator because I didn't want it to get stolen. Mostly drunk.

     

    I've just gotten my engine installed in the car, and am pretty close to firing it up.

     

    It's an F54/P79 out of an '82. It ran well when it was in the donor car. About 155k miles if I remember.

     

    I kept the block as is, in other words, I didn't rebuild it. Just re sealed it. I did run hot compression checks in it when it was still in the rust pile it came out of. It was even across in the high 170's. I got lucky.

     

    Anyway, I had the head shaved .080 as per the Z car garage write up. I gave the machine shop the parts and he installed them for me. It cost me about $350 after parts and labor.

     

    It's kind of a budget modified build. Family comes first.

     

    If you want the parts I used, I'll list them for you. When I get it running, I'll let you know how it goes.

    dac45a58db88c380bd2e52d97f0d772e.jpg&key=6eca24600f1c4ad4dceaeac96b09ed24a07f82c84b5b02dd635b213142a44c25f0f105002454ed3b663b6c78e29d14f0.jpg&key=df0c6dd1d0da9382f76914b8b42c7350df042d0e5d952b420e441de134a398b5cae146887c5deec551879ec7bc932f40.jpg&key=c42078403ffecb5ae150f84b1fab502c04ebecf115055dfc5f9db007aa720c01

     

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    @Av8ferg

     

     

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    Okay, made some progress this AM. Had to invest in a 1/2 impact wrench to get the crank bolt off. Worked like a charm.
    Head is off, no broken bolts. Lots of carbon build up but seems reasonable for 164k miles.
    Oil pan is a disaster, dents everywhere and there was this extra metal strip on one end between bolts and pan . Looks like someone added it but maybe this is stock. See pics below I took. See anything that concerns anyone??

    33d8ed26d5d3dd9c550b5d957ce35947.jpg
    f6a4200e6fca6661832b86bae69a0dcb.jpgeae20a9b5df45f0bf82b57c2e3cc527d.jpg8c63fb922ed67492f7dc634da073806d.jpg4d4d2727fcddc3cb3507b60f6afc6a7f.jpg
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    The oil pan flats are 2 piece.  Remember the oil pan bolts are different lengths.  The short ones go in the block holes that are exposed looking from the top.

    Hold on!  I may be wrong on those bolts.  Seems to make more sense the longer ones would go through the flat pieces.  Count the holes of the flats vs # of long bolts.  I had a hell of a time with my oil pan leaking while it was still on the engine stand.  I over tightened them once at least.  Get a loaner inch pound torque wrench from a chain store.  

    If you want to clean some stuff cheap and easy get some walmart Great Value foam oven cleaner.  For all my piston assemblies, rod caps and what ever else from the inside I used lacquer thinner and some brass wire toothbrush looking things, also some real tooth brushes. 

    Edited by siteunseen

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    Cool! Standard size stock pistons!

    I can make out the P79 on piston #6, along with the 34 marking (large "3" and smaller "4") to indicate stock bin sizing. I'm assuming that if #6 is stock, then the rest of them are as well. There should be a "3" stamped into the top surface of the block next to that piston. I can't make that out because it's hidden under head gasket residue. Clean all the pistons up and clean off the block deck and you should be able to see all the numbers.

    Nothing else really catches my eye, Looks like a completely appropriate amount of carbon for a used ZX motor. Should clean up well.

    I'll measure the thickness of my head and you can do that same. I'm fairly confident that mine has never been shaved, so you can use that number to check yours too.

    I've looked at four head gaskets recently from different origins, and all four had manufacturing markings in the same spot... The rib between piston #1 and the timing chain cavity. Like this:
    P1150326.JPG

    Take a look at yours and see if you can find any marks. If it's aftermarket, it'll tell you that someone had been in there before.

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    Captain, cant believe you were able to see those numbers on the piston head.   I cleaned up a piston and now its clear.  So, I’m sill not sure if this engine has been rebuilt.  Can’t find compelling evidence except that the head gasket doesn't have Nissan written anywhere on it.  The only other evidence I might have found is the cam sprocket.  My 77 engine with the N47 head has a different looking sprocket.  It has 3 holes vs the one on the 82 P79 engine which has 8 holes.  Now, when I look for replacement timing chain kits online they all seem to have 8 hole sprockets.  So the question is, is this an aftermarket sprocket and does the stock Nissan sprocket have three holes. See below pics.  

    Chain kits see to run from $97 to $150.  Is there any specific brand I’m looking for?   I also need to find a replacement harmonic balance and oil pan.  I could probably salvage mine but this is not how I roll.  I like to do it right the fist time and don’t want to put beat up parts on a rebuilt engine.  Replacements aren't cheap.  $190 for and oil pan and >$200 for a harmonic balancer.   If anyone has some good ones sitting in their garage or barn they want to sell let me know,  

    Tomorrow, I’m pulling the pistons and crank out....probably not required I know but down  the rabbit hole I go and I hope you can help me when I try to climb back out,  

    A note: my goal is to keep this build around $1000.  This includes the engine cost so I have $600 more to go before I need to make compromises.  Anyway see my pics below. 

         

     

    DEA9EFBF-9FC8-42A9-930D-1ABC6D908425.jpeg

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    7A2A6BC9-C309-4CC5-902C-3AFAA2D8A5A6.jpeg

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    22 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

    Non-unretouched photograph:

    piston #6a.jpg

    I could make those dished pistons with my laptop. LOL

    You'd do well in politics...

    Non-unretouched covfefe.

    Edited by siteunseen

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    3 hours ago, Av8ferg said:

    Captain, cant believe you were able to see those numbers on the piston head.

    is this an aftermarket sprocket and does the stock Nissan sprocket have three holes.

    Tomorrow, I’m pulling the pistons and crank out....probably not required I know but down  the rabbit hole I go and I hope you can help me when I try to climb back out,  

    Haha! I've got calibrated eyeballs. That, and it's easier to spot it when you know what you're looking for.

    The 82 cam gear looks stock to me. Looks just like the three ZX pulley's I've messed with in recent past. They went to the eight hole version some time between 77 and 81. They also changed if from a sand casting to an investment casting (not that anyone really needs to know that), which accounts for the change in surface texture.

    Now, as for your 77 cam gear, I'm not sure. My 77 gear has four holes, so it's different than yours. But dies wear out, so it's completely conceivable that yours is stock, just from a previous die revision. They're always trying to cut weight, waste, and cost. Some (most?) of the aftermarket gears don't have the little timing mark gash on the rear. So by virtue that it's got the timing gash, I'd vote for stock.

    My non-expert tips on pulling the pistons out... Pistons come out the top (just sayin'). And make sure you carb cleaner the carbon ring at the tops of the cylinders completely clean first. Don't want to push the rings over that hump. Don't use anything abrasive on the cylinder walls (don't use sandpaper to remove the carbon ring). Push the pistons out slow and evenly. I have seen a few very rare occasions where a piston ring will break when it snaps out of the bore. So if that happens, don't freak.

    Did you find the block numbers? Here's a pic of one of my ZX pistons and the corresponding stamp on the block.

    Piston:
    P1150861.JPG

    And the stamp on the block. Left side right next to each cylinder bore. All my pistons were #2 and all my block stamps were 2 as well:
    P1150862.JPG

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    1 hour ago, siteunseen said:

    You'd do well in politics...

    Not a chance. I wouldn't do well at all. The only position I would be even remotely fit to fill would be grabbing them by the covfefe.

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    Your engine is looking more and more like just a high miles engine.  That glued on badge is an odd thing now.

    Aftermarket sprockets only have to match the tooth pattern and shape.  They're not rebuilt like alternators, they are brand-new parts, but made from the aftermarket manufacturers' tooling.  Look for a good brand name.  Cloyes seems to be well known in timing sprockets and chains.  Often you'll find the same exact part for different prices from different suppliers.  Sometimes there's only one company making a part so you might as well just buy the cheapest, unless there's a warranty.

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    I'll dig up some pics of the aftermarket sprockets. My suggestion is to get one that DOES have the timing mark gash on it. If it doesn't have the timing marks on it, the only way you'll be able to verify your valve timing would be to use an indicator to degree the cam.

    And nobody wants to do that.   LOL 

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    I grabbed a couple quick pics off ebay... Here's the back of a Beck Arnley aftermarket pulley. See the three timing mark gashes cast into the back side:
    aftermarket beck arnley.jpg

    And here's the back side of a Federal Mogul Sealed Power. Note that there are no timing marks, so you'd be assuming the timing is where you want it:
    aftermarket sealed power.jpg

    Some of the aftermarket stuff has the timing marks and some do not.

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    Oh, and forgot to tell you before... The prevalent info on the web says that the original thickness of the Z heads is 108mm, and I've verified that's what mine measures.

    I measured the overall thickness of my P79 and it's 4.255 inches (108mm) thick, so my head has never been shaved.

    If you check yours and get the same number, it'll be another data point to indicate that your motor had never been open before.

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    Thanks for the tips. Pistons are coming out nicely after cleaning the cylinders ridges with brake cleaner.
    Got my Machine Shop quotes today.

    $50 Hot Tank and inspection
    $65 Re-honing
    $65 clean and inspect the head.
    7 day turnaround


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    But a set of brass core plugs and give them to the machinest. I used Sealed Power I think?

    This will keep you awake tonight...

    cylinder piston ring types have different honing/hatching recommendations. I bought chrome faced molly and it's different than steel. Something else to research. It never ends when you get bit by the Z. LOL

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    There are fairly simple things that people do for minor improvements.  Paint the inside of the block with glyptal to seal it and any casting sand that might still be there, and for quicker oil drainback (after you have it hot-tanked).  Clean up the coolant passages of casting flash with a grinder (before you have it hot-tanked).  Apparently there can be quite a bit.  Smooth the crankshaft weights so they don't hang on to oil.  Balance things, generally.  The "How to Modify" book is worth a look for ideas.

    Since you have time.

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