Tie rod wiggle

[Patcon]

@Chickenman

I would "like" that post but I have evidently exceeded my limit for the day.

Bartender! Where are my keys?

[siteunseen]

1 hour ago, Patcon said:

@Chickenman

I would "like" that post but I have evidently exceeded my limit for the day.

Bartender! Where are my keys?

I got him for you. 

I had a girl tell me "they're in your other pocket" for about 5 minutes one night.  We got a big laugh as she drove us home.

Edited March 20, 2018 by siteunseen

[Captain Obvious]

Yeah, I'm going to walk back my thoughts a little on this one. Chickenman is right that the stakes are pretty high and if there's any question at all about it being risky, then it's best to replace parts to tighten things up.

My assumption earlier on in this thread discussion is that it is the correct thread, but just maybe a fit class a little looser than expected. However, without actually seeing the parts with my own two eyes, my assumption is just that. And it carries all the risks that any assumption carries. For all I know, it is NOT the correct thread, even though it engages without excessive force, Unfortunately, I cannot tell that for sure without actually seeing and measuring the parts.

So if you're unsure about it and don't have anyone local with suitable expertise who can look at the parts and pass judgment, then you should probably replace parts.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Captain Obvious
Ambiguous meanings

[z boy mn]

If Captain Obvious is having second (or third) thoughts, that's all I need to know! And, as I like the idea of being sucked (or blown) through the opening of a window very little, I'll get online tomorrow morning and order a new inner tie rod. 

And, I think the Chickenman's memory is equally valuable. If there's even a small change in how these things were manufactured it could explain the wiggle...and the change must have been for a reason. After all, the driver's side fit like you would have expected. Maybe that inner tie rod has been replaced already, for example.

It's also worth noting that when I first got the z, my spouse made jokes about being a "z widow" because I was spending so much time in the shop. She doesn't make those comments anymore, but I'd like to keep it that way. 

I'll post an update on fitment when the inner rod comes in to complete the thread...either way.

[Captain Obvious]

Haha! Well I'm no expert, but since I can't judge the parts with my own two beady eyes, I should err on the side of caution.

We don't need any "Z widows" for reasons other than spending too much time with the other woman (the Z).

Keep us posted!  

[z boy mn]

Good afternoon everyone! I have news!

So, the new inner tie rod came in this weekend and the "wiggle" seems to be about the same as the original. By "about" I mean it feels the same, I haven't figured out a way to measure it yet. Also, I tried wiggling the lock not side to side on the threads, and the locknut on the original inner tie rod wiggles less than the one on the new one. SO...does anyone have a way to gauge "wiggle." Or, whether or not I'm simply getting paranoid at this point?

BTW, ZCarDepot was great. The part shipped right out and was here before I was able to even get a chance to try it. They do have a return policy, too, which it seems I may be taking advantage of in the near future. 

Looking forward to closing this chapter...and open to suggestions.

[Captain Obvious]

About the only thing you could easily do is measure the outside diameter of the threads. At least that way, you could tell what metric size they are.

If you look into the threaded hole in the outer tie rod end, do the threads look OK? I mean it's not like some PO ordered the wrong side (threads backwards) and ran a tap into the hole to "fix" it and make it sorta work? Nothing stupid like that?

[z boy mn]

Good thinking, Captain, I checked the threads (male and female portions) and it all looks pristine. No burs or marks or mashed threads or weird spots. I also compared the thread (by eye) of the inner tie rods on the car and the new one...they look to be the same size.

When I was in the shop, though, I forgot that I have a digital caliper. I'll try to measure the diameter of the bolt/threaded part and see if they're exactly the same. 

If it all checks out, I'll assume it's fine, I guess.

[Captain Obvious]

Yeah, without a "go/no-go" thread gauge for the female thread, about the only thing you can easily do is measure the major diameter of the male thread. So check them with your digital caliper, and see what you find. You should get something a small nominal amount lower than the tread spec. I don't know offhand what thread they used there, but for example, a 12mm thread should measure something a little less than 12mm OD. Couple thousandths less (like maybe 5-7?). If it's more than maybe fifteen thousandths less than spec, then it's noteworthy.

You can check the left side too for comparison, assuming you have some threads exposed beyond the lock nut.

All this problem is on the right side, correct? That's the side with the right hand (normal) thread, correct?

[z boy mn]

Hello Captain, I did some measurements tonight, and the mystery continues!

I used my digital calipers, which aren't the greatest but I think they're consistent with themselves. The thickness of the original right inner tie rod averages out at 13.8mm (so it must be a 14mm bolt), but the thickness of the new one averages out at 13.65. Both had some variation (or user error or caliper error) of about .03mm, but there's no question that the diameter of the original is somewhat larger than the replacement. 

My conclusion is that as the fitment is about the same and the diameter of the original is larger (deeper threads so it's stronger?) that I'm better off sticking with the original. Thoughts? (BTW, I forgot to measure the left side...but I'll do that tomorrow and update.

And, to answer your last question--yes, this is only the right side. I'm beginning to suspect the "problem" is me!

[Captain Obvious]

Threads are a funny thing... They go from "not going together at all" to "loose and sloppy" in just a couple thousandths.

13.65 mm major diameter is pretty sloppy for a 14 mm thread. The 13.8 sounds much better, but if both of them feel about the same when threaded into the female thread, then the female is sloppy as well?

So I know you replaced the right outer once already... Can you tell if either of the outers are OEM or are they all aftermarket? You said the left felt fine. Can you tell if the left components are factory and maybe better quality than the aftermarket stuff?

Edited March 28, 2018 by Captain Obvious

[z boy mn]

Interesting suggestion, Captain, as I had three different outer tie rods to play with at one point.

All three fit the same (on the stock inner tie rod). My guess is the one I took off the car is OEM, but that's just a guess.

What I do know is that I can send the new inner tie rod back...and I'm hoping the folks who do the alignment will have some input, too. Strange what a little bit of steel either way in the diameter can do to how it feels going together. At this point, even if they determine it is a problem, I'm not sure what I would do. Fabricate an inner tie rod myself using a 14mm bolt? Or...just bite the bullet and go with a techno-toy style instead...assuming I win the lottery, that is! (Of course, these thread onto the inner tie rod, too...so maybe they'd fit the same!)

https://technotoytuning.com/nissan/240z/outer-tie-rods-datsun-240z-260z-and-280z