I have Fairlady S30-01036...need some advice

[carnutatthebeach 6]

I own several early Z cars, but my most prized is my early S30 Japanese model Fairlady Z (2 liter) pre-240Z.  It's fitted with an original real g-nose. I was told it was raced in Japan before being converted to left hand drive and shipped to the US (all the old places on the firewall are covered over from conversion). It has a rollbar, and factory race bucket seats...super light! . One "rear deck" behind the seat storage bin, one plastic behind the seat storage box. Original 2 liter engine. It has the early rear deck with vents. It was originally Grand Prix Red, which I've read the ZG's only came in 3 colors, that being one of them. The tag under the hood says S30-01036, not HS30-01036. Can someone with more knowledge fill me in to exactly what I have? The car is overall very solid. I know it's special, so I'm looking forward to your responses! Thx! 

[dmorales-bello 286]

Photographs are a must. Please post some.

[carnutatthebeach 6]

I'll post more pics when I'm back from vacation. I had these on my phone from when I got the car. Black composite (I think) hood, engine and tranny, and flares are in storage.

[HS30-H 993]

9 hours ago, carnutatthebeach said:

I own several early Z cars, but my most prized is my early S30 Japanese model Fairlady Z (2 liter) pre-240Z.  It's fitted with an original real g-nose. I was told it was raced in Japan before being converted to left hand drive and shipped to the US (all the old places on the firewall are covered over from conversion). It has a rollbar, and factory race bucket seats...super light! . One "rear deck" behind the seat storage bin, one plastic behind the seat storage box. Original 2 liter engine. It has the early rear deck with vents. It was originally Grand Prix Red, which I've read the ZG's only came in 3 colors, that being one of them. The tag under the hood says S30-01036, not HS30-01036. Can someone with more knowledge fill me in to exactly what I have? The car is overall very solid. I know it's special, so I'm looking forward to your responses! Thx! 

Some observations;

'S30-01036' would indeed be an early 1970 production (probably January or early February) S30-S Standard model 'Fairlady Z' or S30 Deluxe model 'Fairlady Z-L'. A closer look at your remaining trim and accessories should tell you whether it was a Standard or Deluxe model, but it's more likely to be a Deluxe just based on the law of averages and the stainless trim that I can see.

The G-Nose assembly, whether it indeed is a genuine factory item or an early aftermarket copy, would have been attached to the car after (probably quite a way after) October 1971. The original colour of the car looks to be #905 red, which would be correct for a 1970 production Fairlady Z or Z-L. The 'Grand Prix Red' choice on the Fairlady 240ZGs was actually #110, so a different shade. It's kind of a moot point anyway as your car clearly isn't a Fairlady 240ZG.

I don't see anything specific that would point to circuit race use in-period. The seats are aftermarket sports seats and are certainly not factory race seats, the centre drop bar brackets for the roll hoop look to be an aftermarket copy of the Nissan Sports Option items (yours appear simplified in comparison to originals) and there's an awful lot of interior re-trim with non-standard materials evident, along with a later centre console. It looks like a fairly typical 70s/80s 'street tune' car to me.

The photo of the left door interior looks - to me - to show it is a later replacement.

Does the engine bay tag match up with the body serial number engraved on the firewall?  

     

Edited July 28, 2017 by HS30-H
added a bit

[carnutatthebeach 6]

What would this car be worth 1) in its current state (with 2 liter engine and tranny), but with g-nose removed and 2) properly restored? Thx

[carnutatthebeach 6]

and what's the g-nose worth since it appears to be an original?

[Consigli 29]

Are you going to restore it or flip it?

[carnutatthebeach 6]

Planning a restoration. Just need to know values before I decide the extent of the restoration ie taking back to RHD or not, etc.

[psdenno 670]

5 hours ago, carnutatthebeach said:

and what's the g-nose worth since it appears to be an original?

Is it a five piece g-nose or one of the type with fewer pieces?  You'll want to include the g-nose hood hinges if you sell.  No headlight covers may knock the price down for some potential buyers.

Dennis

[carnutatthebeach 6]

It's a correct five piece and I believe by the fitment and quality it's an original Nissan piece. The only reason I'm considering selling it is it isn't correct for the car if I restore back to original. I might make the car into a ZG clone. If not, I can put the proceeds towards the resto. I have the plexiglass headlight covers in storage I believe. I know the nose and covers are worth a decent amount. Also, this car has been tucked away for over 35 years, which again only leads me to believe the parts are original Nissan.

[carnutatthebeach 6]

Here's a pic of one of the hood hinges...is that the correct one for the g-nose? Hood is off the car in storage. Also, a pic of the bumper piece showing construction and mounting points. Looks original to me.

[HS30-H 993]

9 hours ago, carnutatthebeach said:

Here's a pic of one of the hood hinges...is that the correct one for the g-nose? Hood is off the car in storage. Also, a pic of the bumper piece showing construction and mounting points. Looks original to me.

Yes, hood hinge and front bumper look to be correct for genuine Nissan-supplied items.

Hard to value with so few photos though. Condition is important.

[HS30-H 993]

16 hours ago, carnutatthebeach said:

What would this car be worth 1) in its current state (with 2 liter engine and tranny), but with g-nose removed and 2) properly restored? Thx

It's almost impossible to take a stab at value in current condition with so few photos to go on. From what I see so far, it's in a bit of a mess. The true extent of the corrosion is a worry, as is the nature of the 'LHD conversion'. From your photos so far it looks as though wiper configuration was included, so perhaps radical changes to sheetmetal under the cowl (what happened to the heater inlet duct 'chimney'?). To reverse all that might be difficult, requiring RHD parts to replace. 

Properly restored? I think it's a moot point. Again, from the limited photos I see a LOT of original parts missing. Rounding up the correct parts for an early production LHD car is hard enough, but you can multiply it by a factor of ten for early RHD. If you start writing out a list it gets long pretty quick, and long means expensive. Proper restoration costs would easily outstrip the value of the finished car in your market.

This is a car that needs to find an owner who will do what it takes without paying too much attention to the bottom line.

Edited July 29, 2017 by HS30-H

[240260280 2,157 1 Vehicles]

Can you please take a couple of photos of the rear view mirror?  I would be grateful.

 

Thanks

[Hardway 280]

I will add my thoughts to this.  First, thank you for posting this up and sharing with the community.  We love this stuff and can't wait to see more!

A lot of value for a vehicle is tied to what you can prove about its history and provenance.  If you have proof this car was raced by the factory, that will certainly add a lot of value, especially if it won anything.  Without proof of it's history and any accomplishments, its just a JDM Fairlady Z.  A JDM Fairlady Z is still special and being a fairly early VIN helps it value.  Now move on to the conversion from RHD to LHD.  As HS30-H said above, converting a car back to RHD will be extremely expensive and would certainly eat up a very large portion of any restoration budget.  Based on your description, the conversion to LHD was pretty thorough so with that, I would just leave it LHD.  Again, if you can prove its racing history, there may be a case for restoring it to race specs.  I would encourage you to start researching previous owners and drivers of the car.  If they are still around, try to make contact, see if you can talk with them or meet in person.  If they have a lot of information to share, WRITE IT DOWN.  See if they would be willing to sign a statement about the car based on their knowledge.  That helps build provenance.  See if they have any pictures, records, and best of all, can they put you in contact with anyone else that can tell you about the car.

Beyond the fact its a Fairlady Z, it will have suffered through all the wear and problems every other Z car and old car of this era.  Condition of engine, drive train, floors, pans, rails, and the rest of the body all play in to the question of what it could be worth.  Based on the side picture, there appears to be a build up of dirt on the passenger side rocker panel.  Under that could be more dirt but no metal.  Without pics of anything else and no mention of the rest of the car, its hard to give any numbers but I will take a stab at it.

To answer your questions, what is it worth today and what could it be worth restored?  Based on the few pictures and your description as of today, I think its worth $7K.  I am sure some people reading this may feel that is offensive but that number is based on everything presented as of today.  To get a true value of anything is to know what you truly have.  Clean the car out, take lots of pictures, note anything that is interesting or odd, take an inventory of everything you have including any paper work, and post it up here.  Does it run and if not can you at least turn the engine over by hand?  How do things look under the valve cover?  Once we see more, myself and others will chime in with our thoughts and you could easily see estimates of $10K, $15K, or more.  

Value once restored.  You can check finished sale results from BAT, eBay, Hemmings, Mecum, etc.  You will find that grade A restored series-1 Z cars sell for between $25K - $60K (The $60K example was recently sold at auction in Hungry)  Its unclear what impact the LHD conversion will have on a Fairlady Z but it will not bring as much as a RHD Fairlady Z.  That said, a grade A nut and bolt restoration should bring $30K - $50K in the right venue.  Based on what you are starting with, that restoration could cost $30K - $50K.

[HS30-H 993]

29 minutes ago, Hardway said:

A lot of value for a vehicle is tied to what you can prove about its history and provenance.  If you have proof this car was raced by the factory, that will certainly add a lot of value, especially if it won anything.  

Again, if you can prove its racing history, there may be a case for restoring it to race specs.

Whoa there! Who said it was raced "by the factory"...?

It would be news to Nissan, since they never took the 2-litre L-gata engined cars racing or rallying. They had the 432, 432-R, HS30 and HLS30 for that...

I honestly don't see anything about this car that would suggest it was a proper race car in period. Wannabe street racer maybe, but more likely a typical Japanese street custom of the period.

[carnutatthebeach 6]

Personally, I never said raced by the factory. I said it was raced in Japan. The previous owner, of 30+ years knew the history of this car pretty well. He was also told by other well known people in the Z community they knew the car and raced against it, both abroad and in the states. I'm only going on what I was told, but he was President of his local Z club and I see no reason for story fabrication. I'm beginning to agree with the consensus to leave the car as a LHD now as it does seem quite complex and pricey to convert back. What I was told was that Nissan converted it over for the GI that owned it before shipping to the states. 

[240260280 2,157 1 Vehicles]

Seems more unique the way it is!

[Zed Head 2,208]

Shouldn't the wheels be on the other side?  The impression of movement and sped would be greater.  Looks like they're scooping air as they are.  Pretty sporty looking though.

[HS30-H 993]

1 hour ago, carnutatthebeach said:

The previous owner, of 30+ years knew the history of this car pretty well. He was also told by other well known people in the Z community they knew the car and raced against it, both abroad and in the states. I'm only going on what I was told, but he was President of his local Z club and I see no reason for story fabrication.

OK, so names, ranks and serial numbers please? These "well known people in the Z community" are whom? If the car has been raced, there will presumably be event names, dates and results to back that up? The "President of his local Z club" has a name, I presume? If you make the claims - even by proxy - they have to be backed up. Hearsay is not good enough.

I don't want to break a butterfly on a wheel here, but I see little evidence of the car ever being scrutineered and raced in period. First of all, who raced a 2-litre L-gata engined car in period (yes, names ranks and serial numbers please) and where is the factor max that proved the fact on the car itself? I see bone stock road car with period 'street' mods, not period-modded race car. Fuel system? Suspension? Brakes? Safety? Where's the scars? This car just doesn't have any aura of period race car about it. Not even a sniff... 

[HS30-H 993]

2 hours ago, carnutatthebeach said:

What I was told was that Nissan converted it over for the GI that owned it before shipping to the states. 

Sorry, but this is utter fantasy. Nissan were simply not in the business or habit of undertaking such modifications. The (road traffic ministry related) ramifications alone make it a bureaucratic nightmare. If said G.I. wanted an LHD car, why didn't he just buy one? I'm sorry, it's just nonsense.

I can imagine a situation where a local privateer 'shop' may have undertaken such a task, but where did the donor LHD parts come from? The further you get away from 1970 the less likely it all becomes too. Tall stories tend to attach themselves to such cars, and get bigger with the telling. Usually doesn't take much to dismantle them.

I'd class this with your "factory race seats" claim. Doesn't stand up to any level of serious scrutiny. 

It's a (roughly) period-modded early 1970 Fairlady Z-L. Cool in it's own right. I think exaggerated claims and unsubstantiated 'race history' don't really help us to understand or evaluate the car as it stands.  

[carnutatthebeach 6]

John Csomay I believe is his name. I think it was the Tidewater Z Club in Norfolk/Virginia Beach area. I'm strictly going on what info he gave me. "I" thought the seats looked like the factory sport seats I've seen pictures of (attached, mine look similar minus the black vinyl or leather and grommets) so that's my misinformed claim. Whatever they are, they're vintage, VERY light, and way cool. I'm not trying to cause WWIII here. I'm simply looking for info and advice on this car that I'm not sure how to approach. I do appreciate all the knowledge on this board.

[carnutatthebeach 6]

And one of the people that supposedly knew this car and raced against it is the guy that drew the technical exploded view (not sure of what it's called) of the 240Z where you kinda look and see thru the car. It was a limited edition poster at some point.

[carnutatthebeach 6]

I believe this is the guy...

[Zed Head 2,208]

A picture of the roll bar would be interesting, along with any suspension modifications.  There are really no signs that it ever saw a race track in your pictures.  Most people don't put roll bars in their street cars.

I take it though that the man issue here is whether or not the Nissan factory was involved.  Maybe it was a Nissan dealer.  Don't know how the dealerships work in Japan.