Interior Ergonomics

[HS30-H]

Thanks for the replies Gentlemen,

Alfadog and That Ozzy Guy, you might be interested to know that the Japanese "Home" market S30-series Z cars had extra seat mount brackets - so that the seat runners could be unbolted and moved several cm forward of the "normal" position. If you look at the seat mount brackets in the floor area of a non Japanese market Z, you will see that the REAR bracket has TWO holes in it ( am I right? ) - however, the forward bracket only has one hole position. This means that the Japanese market had the option of having the seat mounted forward of its usual export position. Take a look at the pictures of the floor on my 432R replica base car and you will see what I mean. They are just L-shaped brackets that are attached to the floor and the forward seat crossmember. This is also a good way to identify a true Japanese "Home" market car - if ever you are in doubt...............

There are a lot of replies from owners with RHD cars. I am hoping for a few more from LHD owners ( thanks Victor and 2Many ). Maybe I should re-frame the original question a little and get a little closer to what I am driving at here:

The S30-series Z was made in both LHD and RHD versions, but the Emergency Brake / Handbrake / Side Brake / Frein a Main was always on the RIGHT side of the trans tunnel. As far as I can see -either the LHD cars or the RHD cars must have had the Handbrake in the "wrong" place. But which one was "wrong" and which one was "right"?......................

Alan T.

( ps - is this a "leading" question?! )

[Sean Dezart]

2manyZs, your anecdote on your girlfriends' legs reminds me of a poll I once read:

100 mem were questioned on thier preferences, 22 % said they liked short legs and 33 % long legs - the rest preferred something in between !

I never understood why you staters call it an emergency brake - what are you going to do in an emergency , pull it up and spin off the road ? In all the TV programmes and films, I always see the cars rock forward as the driver sticks it in gear or 'park' where the locking bolts slide across into the transmission / wheels or whatever !

I also am disappointed that I can't cruise comfortably with my arm outa the window. I nearly always drove with the window open to hear the exhaust - even in the rain 'cos with the guttering, rain hardly ever came in !

Another pleasure is that (and it's been a while since I drove a Z) I don't remember a blind spot with the 'A' pillar. In fact I always found the all-round visibility to be excellent, even when driving my RHD in France for example.

Alan, you 'agent provocateur' you, there is no right or wrong side, they built it like that and that's that. Someone obviously asked "which side should it be put on ?" And we all know the answer !

But reading the replies, as it is high on the tranny tunnel, and it is less of a struggle to let off the high handbrake when it's closer, maybe that plus the fact that the domestic market drives on the rhd side....

After all, cars made by a native company are usually made to conform to the domestic market first before exports !

[HS30-H]

Sean,

That's what I think - but there are people out there who say that the S30-series Z was made "for" the American market ( rather than just made with hopes that it would sell well there ).

That's why I'm trying to be an Agent Provocateur ( hopefully I won't be accused of Sedition ) and promote / provoke a debate about the 'natural' bias of the car being LHD or RHD.

There's a whole litany of other things on the car that make me think that the RHD market cars are the ones that are the most natural state for the car to be in. The whole layout of the engine and transmission is a large case in point.

I don't want to let these assertions that the car was made "for" the LHD market go unchallenged ( or at least undebated ). I think its quite clear that it was not. The Handbrake positioning is a good example of this.

So far though, comments from LHD car owners have been fairly non-commital. What I really want to know is if anyone out there with an LHD car thinks that the Handbrake position on the right side of the tunnel is the way they think it SHOULD be for an LHD car.

My intentions are constructive rather than destructive, and I'm hoping for an old-fashioned debate without descent into confrontation.

Or maybe this is too dry a debate for most people to be bothered with getting into?

Alan T.

[Zedrally]

Oh you stirrer you,

You may have more luck starting an argument about cricket being superior to baseball!

Reminds me of a Volvo I once owned [although I might regret owning up to it].

The indicators where on the "wrong"side.

After a while you get used to it and think it normal, hence the lack of response on the handbrake question.

[Alfadog]

I think Alan's just getting old and trying to start arguments!

Either that or he is subtley spreading the word that the Z was definitely not "An American car, built in Japan" - something that needs to be spread so that those darn yanks don't one day remember the Z as a "muscle car"... no offence to the Americans here certainly.

Alan, about the Japanese short people driving Z's ... you have an answer for everything!!! Let me think of another... ok was there any real reason why they changed slightly the design from the "series 1" to "series 2" cars? (you know, the hatch vents, steering wheel holes, etc.) or was it just changed because it could be?

Oh and one story I find hard to believe (can't remember where I heard it .. might have been you!) was that Mr. K actually got people to debadge all of the American export Z's in the beginning, and rebadge them all to be 240Zs... is this true at all?

I'm going off topic aren't I...

[Cuong Nguyen]

Hi All,

I would have to agree that the car is originally designed as a RHD car, and then only AFTER, was it adapted to LHD mode.

Out of interest, for those of you that have driven a LHD S30, what about the positioning of the pedal box? Is it in a "nice" position, or is it too close to either the left or right? Maybe that will also help this "debate"

Now out of topic, Alan, your number of posts are fast approaching the magic 432 number, I am sure at the moment that anything "432" would almost appeal to you!?!?

[Caen Fred]

Now that I am a bit older, a bit more Nissan educated, there is a question runing in the back of my head.

Why Nissan didn't send the whole package to the world?

The Z is my dream, my main occupation in life. I also know that if (yes the old what if...) my garage would be big enough, my bank account large enough, I would have an old Skyline. I am sure that they would have scored big as well this this model. I rather have a skyline coupé in order to move 4 peoples than a 260 2+2!

I my opinion, they almost invented the BMW Mx concept, big engine in a small package. But you don't rewrite history...

[HS30-H]

Not getting many bites from the LHD owners, so it might be declared "no contest"..........

I'm after a healthy and grown-up debate here - not an 'argument'. Where are the Zhome supporters when you need 'em?!

Zedrally - that's an interesting analogy about the Volvo indicator stalks. I drive an RHD Alfa Romeo 156 as my everyday transport, and that is compromised in the same kind of way. Its really easy to tell that it was designed primarily as a left hooker, and the RHD version has lots of silly little niggles like that.

I think one of the biggest no-no's on a car is to have the indicator stalk on the same side of the steering wheel as the gearstick. It just makes you feel really busy sometimes. Having it on the opposite side of the wheel somehow seems more natural, even though you still need to use both hands. Interesting that Nissan seem to have thought of this with the LHD and RHD versions of the S30-series Z.

Alfadog, I have never heard Japanese Z enthusiasts talk about "Series 1" and "Series 2" cars. I think this is terminology that grew up in the USA market in answer to a perceived cut-off or change point from one spec to another. From what I have seen, heard and read, there were many changes all through the life of the early cars ( I'm primarily talking 1969 to 1973 here, and ALL markets - not just USA ). Some of them were more noticeable than others ( like the venting change and the holes in the steering wheel that you mentioned ) and this may have led to the perception that there were different "series" of cars. I think in truth the factory was changing / improving / fettling details all through the life of these cars, and it was mostly done on the hoof. Sone of the big reasons for changes would have been improvements to manufacture of components - like the "sugar scoops" changing from plastic to steel. Apparently it took a while for them to sort out the proper pressing of these items, and they were forced to use plastic in the beginning. I can't see any reason for changing most of the details except that they might improve production, function or looks. They were pumping out so many of these cars in the first few months of production that its not surprising they found ways to improve them.

That story about Mr K. changing emblems is at least partly apocryphal. There's no doubt that it was Katayama himself who insisted on the name change, and this involved him taking some "Fairlady" emblems off of cars and switching to a "240Z" emblem instead. But where did these "240Z" emblems come from so suddenly? They must have already existed in order for there to be the possibility to use them. Do we have the whole story?

Cuong, the pedal box question is a good one. Its pretty crowded on the left side of the trans tunnel and engine bay of an LHD Z.

The footwell is pretty wide though, so the factory may have done a good job in packaging the pedals and their linkages. Notice that the Clutch Slave and Throwout Arm are on the right side of the trans though.

( Cuong - when I get to 432 posts I'll probably need an oil change at the very least! ).

Fred, I think its fairly typical that "Export" markets never get the full Home Market range of any automobile manufacturer. They usually pare down the model selection to make it simpler for themselves and their territorial representatives. Here in the UK, the early days of Nissan / Datsun importing were carried out by a franchise ( called "Datsun UK" ) who tried to keep things simple for themselves. For example, they never imported the C10 Skyline range as they probably thought they could not compete with the Escort and Cortina in the UK market. This must have been the scenario in most other territories too.

"An American car, built in Japan" - anybody want to agree with that?

Alan T.

[Caen Fred]

Allan, have you been in a rally buggy? I think they have what could close this argument, dual hand-brake. Right, one for each side of the rear wheel, so you can turn very tight on mudy hairpins. So what would be right for a rally Z fanatic is to use both lever on each side od the trans tunel !

If we start counting, I vote hand-brake wrong for a LHD and right for a RHD.

PS, are you doing any Monte-Carlo revival with all the snow you get in UK latelly?

Fred

[NickF]

Alan.

Nissan would have realised the export potential of the Z, it would have been designed for the world market, may be not as well designed as it should have been,the hand brake for instance.

But that did'nt seem to bother many thousands of Americans who could'nt get enough of them may be design genius??

Were Zs exported to USA before UK? the natural export market?

Credit where it is due they built a car that sold very well in the market that it was intended for.

Pity the UK motor industry was still trying to sell some pretty average product in the 1970s

Nick

[Cuong Nguyen]

"An American car, built in Japan"

I agree to disagree with that...

[Sean Dezart]

Alan,

Your (mass) debates are dry but informative - especially to the owners who've accepted 'that's what I've got - it sold by the thousands so it must be right (even if it does give me a frozen shoulder every time I want to hang a sharp turn) '.

Personally, my favourite way of taking a sharp turn was to point the front wheels more or less in the direction desired then squirt the gas - she's such a lovely car to drive and you always know what's happening. I've been out in her in the snow - yes, sacriledge but, dammit, it's such fun and the car will wheel spin in a STRIAGHT line, no fish-tailing !

I want to pose a question though, being a new to LHD zedding, has anyone tried to mount the handbrake on the drivers side - how much work is involved ? No purist thought please, the car is already well past the original concours stage !

Over to you, fifth columnist !