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260z in Japan?

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    i was wondering if japan had a 260z? in the usa market we had:

    70-73 for 240z; 74-77 for 260z?; and etc... did japan just have the 240z until 77?

    just a thought...

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    Japan didn't have 240-260 or 280 designations like the rest of the world did, they just had the "Fairlady Z." As model years progressed the changes to the front and rear headlights and the body occurred on Japanese Z's just like it did on exported Zs.

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    The Japanese market started out with four distinct models in October 1969:

    *Fairlady Z ( 'S30-S' model ) = 'S30' VIN prefix

    *Fairlady Z-L ( 'S30' model ) = 'S30' VIN prefix

    *Fairlady Z432 ( 'PS30' model ) = 'PS30' VIN prefix

    *Fairlady Z432-R ( 'PS30-SB' model ) = 'PS30' VIN prefix

    Then in October 1971 the L24 engine was introduced to the range. The above four models continued to be sold, but the three models below were added:

    *Fairlady 240Z ( 'HS30-S' model ) = 'HS30' VIN prefix

    *Fairlady 240Z-L ( 'HS30' model ) = 'HS30' VIN prefix

    *Fairlady 240ZG ( 'HS30-H' model ) = HS30' VIN prefix

    The above continued to be sold until September 1973, when the L24 and S20 engined models were withdrawn and the L26 engine was introduced. Two models were then sold alongside the L20A engined versions:

    *Fairlady 260Z ( 'RS30-S' model ) = 'RS30' VIN prefix

    *Fairlady 260Z-L ( 'RS30' model ) = 'RS30' VIN prefix

    However, these L26-engined models were soon found to suffer from severe fuel vapourisation problems and overheating ( especially when equipped with Air Con ) and had great trouble passing the stringent Japanese emissions standards of the time. After just a few weeks of sales, all of the L26-engined models that had been sold to the general public were re-called, their L26 engines replaced with L20s, and their firewall VIN stamps were altered to 'S30' numbers. The whole episode was somewhat hushed up by Nissan.

    Thereafter, the Japanese market only got a variety of models with L20 engines ( carbed and then injected ) through to the end of S30/S31-series Z production in 1978.

    Alan T.

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    The swap from S30 with '240' style lamps, and the S30 with the later '260/280' style lamps and dashboard happened somewhere around S30-108000.

    That is the earliest VIN for a 'Late Dash' car I have seen here in the USA. I had earlier vehicles myself with lower VINS that were of the 'early lamp' variety.

    And of course, there was my S30-110661, which rusts in peace somewhere amalgamated and remelted early in 1989 when I left Japan. Notwithstanding the '180000' chassis switch, 110661 was an early car all the way, an unexplained "Build Out" car of strange pedigree, and which I lament not saving...other than on Ektachrome Slides. This is the one Alan discussed with me some long time ago with the 100L tank and dashboard, etc...

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    The swap from S30 with '240' style lamps, and the S30 with the later '260/280' style lamps and dashboard happened somewhere around S30-108000.

    That is the earliest VIN for a 'Late Dash' car I have seen here in the USA. I had earlier vehicles myself with lower VINS that were of the 'early lamp' variety.

    And of course, there was my S30-110661, which rusts in peace somewhere amalgamated and remelted early in 1989 when I left Japan. Notwithstanding the '180000' chassis switch, 110661 was an early car all the way, an unexplained "Build Out" car of strange pedigree, and which I lament not saving...other than on Ektachrome Slides. This is the one Alan discussed with me some long time ago with the 100L tank and dashboard, etc...

    Do you mean HLS30? because that's an entirely different thing to HS30 and S30. There arent many S30's in the USA - only ones that were privately imported from Japan.

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    Alan

    Is there more of a story to the L26 overheating and fuel evap problems in Japan. I ask because as far as I know they dont apear to have been known

    as perenial overheating cars in OZ or N.Z . Was it an emissions lean running situation or something similar. Note the Ozzy cars did not have legislated

    emmision requirements till some time in 1975, my 02/74 260Z has the flat top carbs , but no carbon canister or other devices and I hadn't heard of the 75 to 77 cars having overheating problems either.

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    Alan

    Is there more of a story to the L26 overheating and fuel evap problems in Japan. I ask because as far as I know they dont apear to have been known

    as perenial overheating cars in OZ or N.Z . Was it an emissions lean running situation or something similar. Note the Ozzy cars did not have legislated

    emmision requirements till some time in 1975, my 02/74 260Z has the flat top carbs , but no carbon canister or other devices and I hadn't heard of the 75 to 77 cars having overheating problems either.

    Roger,

    The only information I have came to me anecdotally, from people employed by Nissan in Japan at the time. One of my friends in Japan says he really wants to get a good UK-market 'RS30' model, to recreate one of Nissan's long lost phantom models: The Nissan 'Fairlady 260Z'.

    Apparently the problem was most serious on the aircon-equipped cars, and particularly when they were caught up in heavy stop-start traffic during hot weather. Cars were suffering serious fuel vapourisation issues, and dealers could not get a good balance between air-con off and air-con on settings ( the kind of problems that would soon to be eliminated with fuel injection ). They were being forced to make changes that would cause the cars to fail Japan's extremely strict emissions laws ( some of the strictest in the world at that point, I believe ) and a proper cure would have meant a complete re-design of the fuel system and maybe even different carbs. I'm told that Nissan decided to cut their losses, recall the problem cars ( buying them back from customers in some cases ) and fit them with L20A engines instead. The bulkhead VIN stamps were altered to suit, and new metal VIN plates attached to the inner wings ( fenders ). The L20A engine design already had a few years of development and production under its belt ( in a wide variety of models ) and didn't suffer from the same issues as the L26 in the Japanese spec.

    As I mentioned before, this was not highly publicised by Nissan and the whole issue was somewhat covered up. I still have never seen a Japanese service bulletin or any other Nissan-sourced document that mentions it. I think only a few hundred cars were affected.

    I think the spec of the domestic L26 concerned would have been different to the export spec L26 ( different carbs and more emissions equipment at least ) so that's why they treated them differently.

    I don't know the full ins-and-outs of the story, but it is an intriguing story. I would have thought that they would need to change emblems on the cars that were sent back out ( re-badged as 'Fairlady Z' models instead of 'Fairlady 260Z' models ) and this - along with the re-stamping of the firewall VIN and the engine change - might even have made it necessary to repaint the cars.

    And like most of these kinds of story, it is difficult to pin down the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I think Nissan would probably prefer us not to know!

    Alan T.

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    Nice, interesting thread. Thanks. I'm listening. Have we an example of re-possesed / re-stamped car?

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    Yesh.

    Here's one that popped up a few years ago in an unexpected place. Full identity hidden to respect the privacy of the owner:

    post-2116-14150799551912_thumb.jpg

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    Alan

    Is there more of a story to the L26 overheating and fuel evap problems in Japan. I ask because as far as I know they dont apear to have been known

    as perenial overheating cars in OZ or N.Z . Was it an emissions lean running situation or something similar. Note the Ozzy cars did not have legislated

    emmision requirements till some time in 1975, my 02/74 260Z has the flat top carbs , but no carbon canister or other devices and I hadn't heard of the 75 to 77 cars having overheating problems either.

    Rogersz, you must be joking. I've owned 2 260's and both have the overheating problem in summer. I dread taking my current one out if the temp is over 30.

    Please tell us/me how you've managed to avoid this problem?

    The only fix is to change carbs over to 240 "round tops".

    FWIW, I maintain the originals as the car is in original condition and prefer to keep it that way.

    Cheers

    MOM

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    Zedrally

    I,m not an expert on 260z , perhaps the other 260z owners in OZ and N.Z. could let us know how their cars cooling system performed provided of course that the system is in god condition.

    With the two 260's that I have had ,the 2 seaters { 5spd} radiator was coroded out so I replaced it with a good second hand one from an automatic,

    that car also had British SU'S ( no problems) The second car a 2+2 also a manual has the original radiator and air cond. I took it out last Sunday for a 2 1/2 hour drive in the Adelaide hills it was 41 deg C , with the Air cond on the guage went up

    to 3/4 thats about as high as I would normally let any of my cars go, it normally sits at just below half at Temps below about 35 c. I was thinking of getting my Radiator cleaned out but it may already be as good as its going to get without increasig the core size.

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    Also the 2+2 still has the flat tops and is running quite good ,the cars is upto 103,000 KLM'S

    Cheers

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    Rogersz, you must be joking. I've owned 2 260's and both have the overheating problem in summer. I dread taking my current one out if the temp is over 30.

    Please tell us/me how you've managed to avoid this problem?

    Move to Tasmania ROFL

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    Zedrally

    I,m not an expert on 260z , perhaps the other 260z owners in OZ and N.Z. could let us know how their cars cooling system performed provided of course that the system is in god condition.

    With the two 260's that I have had ,the 2 seaters { 5spd} radiator was coroded out so I replaced it with a good second hand one from an automatic,

    that car also had British SU'S ( no problems) The second car a 2+2 also a manual has the original radiator and air cond. I took it out last Sunday for a 2 1/2 hour drive in the Adelaide hills it was 41 deg C , with the Air cond on the guage went up

    to 3/4 thats about as high as I would normally let any of my cars go, it normally sits at just below half at Temps below about 35 c. I was thinking of getting my Radiator cleaned out but it may already be as good as its going to get without increasig the core size.

    By your own admission one car didn't have the original SU's, hence no problem. in the second case you write that you "went for a drive" with no problem, I certainly wouldn't have expected a problem either with the drive part, it's the subsequent starting after stopping the IS the problem with any flat top SU in 40 degree heat.

    Oh, before you ask, the cooling system is in perfect condition, new radiator, hoses and head re-condition with little more than 10k since restoration. The asbestos insulation around the fuel rails has however been removed, is yours still intact?

    The one I had in the late 70's was exactly the same and all other owners that I have spoke to reported similar problems, many of us put up with the problem knowing that after stopping you would not try to re-start the motor within 1-2 hours! Sometimes, it would/will fire up immediately, but that was the exception rather than the rule.

    Perhaps you have the exception to the rule car which Nissan should have studied to solve the ills of 260 owners?

    I think Mr. C has the best solution........LOL

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    Zedrally

    I see what your main complaint is with the hot restart, if mine has sat for 5 minutes after a hot run it can take upto 3 to 5 seconds to start.

    Has anyone here had success with eliminating the hot restart issue by

    fitting the 240Z round top hitchi's.

    Roger

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    Do you mean HLS30? because that's an entirely different thing to HS30 and S30. There arent many S30's in the USA - only ones that were privately imported from Japan.

    No, I mean S30. I was relating what I have seen on the imported S30's as a matter of anecdotal historical reference. If others have Fairlady Z's that can pin the production switch down further to a closer range of VINS, e-mail me so I can add them to 'my list'.

    I kind of informally track S30's here in the USA. Anthropological disease, if you will.

    I find our US-Market versions slightly less fun than the Fairlady due to weight and lack of accessories.

    These I currently posess:

    S30-06223

    HLS30-06330

    GS31-XXXXXX (can't remember that one offhand)

    S130-002XXX (same there)

    Once owned S30-110661. Myself and Alan both are at a loss to explain that wierd amalgam of parts. No Nissan Restamps of the VIN on that one, though!

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    Ok I own a 1976 260z 2 seater that originally had the flat-top SU carbs - (the car was restored to original when I purchased it - however rust came back and it is under going a second rebuild with some mods at the same time).

    Anyway I never had any issues that I recall - however my car was not fitted with air-con.

    Can someone confirm this is one of the reason for the introduction of the vented bonnet? I know that the NZ spec cars never had the vented bonnet but some of the Australian cars did - I can only assume this is due to the fact that it get hotter in Australia than NZ so this issue occured in AU. Also NZ does not, and still does not have any emissions standards or tests (well not 100% ture as of Oct 2006 a a five second visible smoke check will be introduced for vehicles as part of warrant of fitness (WoF) and certificate of fitness (CoF) inspections. We have these WoF or CoF, depends on the type and size of the vechile but generally a WoF is for Car/Motorbike/Tailer and CoF is for a truck, every 6 months (unless the vechile is new or least than 5 years old then the test is carried out once a year)...so that is the emissions test we have - if it has visible smoke during a 5 second rev/run then it fails all at the decression of the tester)

    I was also told by an ex Nissan Japan employee that the Fairlady 260Z was recalled had there engines replace and chassis re stamped.

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    ...snipped..

    They were being forced to make changes that would cause the cars to fail Japan's extremely strict emissions laws ( some of the strictest in the world at that point, I believe ) and a proper cure would have meant a complete re-design of the fuel system and maybe even different carbs.

    ....snipped....

    I think the spec of the domestic L26 concerned would have been different to the export spec L26 ( different carbs and more emissions equipment at least) so that's why they treated them differently.

    ...snipped..

    And like most of these kinds of story, it is difficult to pin down the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I think Nissan would probably prefer us not to know!

    Alan T.

    Hi Alan:

    Could be simply because there were only a few cars involved, that it was more acceptable to simply buy them back when they didn't satisfy their customers.

    It would seem that in 1974, stricter standards for automotive emissions than those of 1973, may have existed in certain prefectures of Japan, but not on a National Level. According to the Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association, the National Laws that sat specific standards for the first time in Japan, for HC, NOx and which incorporated earlier standards for CO were released in Dec. of 72 and took effect in March of 73. They stayed the same until they were increased for the cars produced in the 1975 fiscal year. Which would explain why the L20A's could be used in the cars recalled or repurchased without modifications in 73 and 74.

    As the US Spec. 260-Z's did comply with the far more strict emissions standards in effect here in the U.S. for 1974, I would think that it would have been easier to meet the Japanese Standards that covered the period 73 though 75. Japan did set far more stringent standards for 1978 related to NOx... but then later delayed its actual implementation until 1985. The US Spec. 280-Z's did meet the 78 standards for 78, which were about the same as those originally proposed for Japan for 78.

    For that matter the Z32's could not meet the even more stringent US Emissions Standards for 1996, but they could continue to be sold in Japan. For the most part Japan's Automotive Emissions and Safety Standards followed, but lagged and sometimes far behind those of the U.S.

    While the Japanese Automobile Manufacturers were somewhat successful in gaining delays or lowering Emissions and Safety Standards here in the US, along with the US Manufacturers - they held far more power in delaying or holding Japanese Emissions and Safety Standards back in Japan.

    There is an interesting review of Japans Environmental Controls titled

    <a href="http://www.yale.edu/leitner/pdf/1999-01.pdf" TARGET=NEW> The Political Economy of Japanese Pollution Regulation</a>, by Michael F. Thies, UCLA and Frances Rosenbluth, Yale University.

    It's an interesting bit of Nissan trivia - but when NISSAN USA was reorganized in 1966 Mr. Katayama became President of Nissan Motors USA, and Mr. Kawamata as given the assignment of representing Nissan Motors Japan in legislative matters related to Automotive Emissions and Safety Standards here in the US.. Mr. Kawamata was an Engineer and fluent in English, he reported directly to the President of Nissan Motors Ltd. in that capacity.

    In 1967 he also became Chairman of the newly formed Japan Automobile Manufacturers Association (JAMA), he had previously served as Chairman of the Automotive Industrial Association (JAMA's predecessor). In this capacity he also indirectly represented Aichi Kikai, Isuzu, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Daihatsu, Toyota, Toyo Kogyo, Hino, Fuji Heavy Industries, Bridgestone Cycle, Honda, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, and Yamaha for matters related to US Legislation.

    FWIW,

    Carl B.

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    Oops... sorry.... da... not Kawamata...but - -

    Mr. Kawazoe was the VP that was in the US and assigned to work with D.C....

    It also seems that the time allowed to Edit Posts is far too short !

    Carl B.

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    Rogersz and Mike . . .

    What kind of flat top Hitachis are on your cars? From what I have seen on Yahoo Japan, there are round mouth flat top carbs. I'm no expert, but the main complaint in the US seems to stem from the square mouth carbs and replacing them with earlier 240Z round tops (with round mouths) fixes the problem.

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    Miles,

    There is no argument about "how to fix...", it has been well known here that replacing them(flat tops) with earlier round tops fixs the problem.

    Roger & yourself should re-read my post as you both seem to have a different view.

    Flat tops in OZ have ALWAYS been problematic, that is why I'd be interested in how Roger managed to fix a problem that Nissan wasn't able to do?

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    Sakijo

    Mine are square mouth types, Zedrally I have already mentioned that my car also takes longer to start after it has sat for a short while after a hot weather run but it does not have a problem with the running temp of the engine. Note I dont know if the current radiator core has an extra row of cores or not. If running temp is the major issue increasing the core size of the radiator seems to work for most cars.

    Cheers

    Roger

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    I have read many times here about the problems of the flat tops with the square mouths. I am just curious about the flat tops with the round mouths. I thought that Roger may have had those. Apparently, the round mouth flat tops were a Japan only carb.

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    Flat tops in OZ have ALWAYS been problematic, that is why I'd be interested in how Roger managed to fix a problem that Nissan wasn't able to do?

    Hi Mike (everyone):

    Nissan was able to fix the problem... more or less... after some time...

    From the Datsun Fuel System Modifications Manual: (related to hard re-starting)

    PERCOLATION: Percolation causes a richer than normal air-fuel mixture. It affects the carburetor float bowl and the high pressure fuel line (the outlet side of the fuel pump), and may cause hot start problems. Percolation can come about in several ways:

    1. Heat Soak - back into the fuel pump and high pressure fuel lines can raise the pressure enough to unseat the float bowl needle valve. This condition is known as "after fill".

    2. Float bowl evaporation may lower the float level while there is residual pressure in the fuel line. This pressure then forces an excess amount of fuel into the float bowl.

    3. Fuel evaporates in the float bowl, and the resulting vapor pressure may not vent out quickly enough. The high pressure developed in the float bowl forces fuel into the intake manifold.

    After explaining what was causing the problem - Nissan did supply the parts necessary and the procedures to be followed - to fix the problem.

    Given that every fine detail had to be perfect, and every modification had to be made in the order Nissan specified when the cars were new - I seriously doubt that approach would be useful today, even if you could still get the Modification Parts Kits..

    When all else failed.. Nissan suggested cutting a large hole in the hood - and mounting a Competition Hood Scoop over it. <a href=http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24781 TARGET=NEW>See the Hood Scoop Thread</a>

    FWIW,

    Carl B.

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