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F1 Race @ Indy

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If the show is crappy, there won't be any fans. F1 and FIA will figure this out in the US next year.

I don't think any promoters in the US will want to take on the US GP next year, unless they are going to do it as a loss leader. :ermm: They'll almost have to give tickets away

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Rant mode "on."

F1 needs to reconsider its self-proclaimed title of "world championship."

They compete on only two types of surfaces, prepared road courses and a precious few street courses, so virtually no versatility is demanded of their drivers. Their drivers are primarily an assortment of filthy rich kids whose parents bought their rides, their governing body is so arrogant that they'd rather run six cars than make a minor track alteration, their cars are supposedly the most advanced on earth but they can't even handle one turn that Indycars make four times per lap, they constantly rewrite and re-interpret rules post facto, and they treat the mecca of American motorsports like their outhouse.

Sometimes they don't even show up, yet they still want to proclaim themselves as a "world championship." Of what, no one is really sure, but it can't have anything to do with racing.

I love racing, but the problem with Formula One is that they act so much like Formula One. By the time they get over their fascination with themselves and realize that they've destroyed their own sport it will be too late. Its a shame, too, because once every few years they'd put on a nice race.

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I have to agree, that Michelin deserves most of the blame here. They didn't do their homework here, and as a result they put out an inadequate product.

However, Formula 1 is a spectator sport : they(F1, FIA) had an obligation to put on a valid show for all those people who took time off work and spent money on tickets, travel, and lodging. If they had indeed put in a chicane and ran the course, I would agree that it should be a no-points race. FIA should not sanction the race if the course was changed at the last second because some teams failed to have the proper equipment to race safely. That would hardly be fair.

Some teams might not race under non-sanctioned circumstances, if they were overly concerned with the overall championship - i.e. "why 'use up' the car for no reason other than showing our logos?" , but 6 or 7 teams would be better than 3.

I only watched for about 10 minutes before turning the TV off.

Time will tell what this does to F1 in the US. Normally a formula 1 event would never make headlines here in the US, but i've seen this debacle being reported on the front pages of many mainstream newswebsites. Certainly does not bode well.

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F1 needs to reconsider its self-proclaimed title of "world championship."

Har har har har har.

So does the "World Championship" of baseball.

They compete on only two types of surfaces, prepared road courses and a precious few street courses, so virtually no versatility is demanded of their drivers.

Yeah. All of them are complete idiots. Send 'em out on coarse sand, dried up salt, crater-strewn lunar surface and wet snow. Then we'll see who can drive worth a damn, eh Sopwith? ( let's not mention rain though, in case those extremely talented oval drivers get antsy.... ).

Their drivers are primarily an assortment of filthy rich kids whose parents bought their rides..........

Yeah! Primarily. Like, er - two or three of them. Not like any other form of motorsport, eh?

....and they treat the mecca of American motorsports like their outhouse.

Whoa! Selling the "Motorsport Capital of the World" a bit short there aren't you? Those guys obviously never even realised they were in the capital of motorsport, in the capital of the World. The fools!

........ yet they still want to proclaim themselves as a "world championship." Of what, no one is really sure, but it can't have anything to do with racing.

It's obvious. What they need is sopwith21! Either that or Danica......

[serious head on] Sir, if this debacle hadn't taken place in the Capital Of The World then I'd bet you wouldn't even have noticed it. Meanwhile, the world still rotates around you.

Personally, I'm more interested in what went on at a rather more important and historic 24 hour race in France that I wasn't able to attend this year. I think you'll find the 'Vettes did quite well this time.........[/serious head on].

Loxahatchee over and out.

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As a 'European' you will forgive me for being at least a little partisan. I agree the FIA et al have made a major blunder here but the series is already in the process of being broken up with the breakaway series due to start in 2008. Perhaps that is what will really kick Bernie and Max into touch - if they are still around.

Rant mode "on."

F1 needs to reconsider its self-proclaimed title of "world championship."

Well the series does still race on 18 circuits in 16 countries ( I think). I doubt many other series have a better claim to the title 'world championship' in that respect.

They compete on only two types of surfaces, prepared road courses and a precious few street courses, so virtually no versatility is demanded of their drivers.

And driving round and round an oval does demand lots of versatility does it?

Their drivers are primarily an assortment of filthy rich kids whose parents bought their rides

I would guess the percentage number of rich kids in formula 1 is probably not much different to the number of rich kids in Nascar and the like

their governing body is so arrogant that they'd rather run six cars than make a minor track alteration

Yep I'd agree with that!!!! Anything is better than the blanket suggestion that Michelin are responsible for the whole debacle on Sunday.

I have to say I don't really think that F1 and the US market has ever mixed very well. You have your own series' over there and F1 is just one of many. In Europe and a lot of the rest of the world F1 is the premier series.

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Here are the charges the 7 michie teams are on trial for:

The FIA informed each team individually that they had committed the following transgressions:

* “Failed to ensure that you had a supply of suitable tyres for the race."

* "Wrongfully refused to allow your cars to start the race."

* "Wrongfully refused to allow your cars to race subject to a speed restriction at one corner, which was safe for such tyres as you had available."

* "Combined with other teams to make a demonstration damaging to the image of Formula 1 by pulling into the pits immediately before the start of the race."

* "Failed to notify the stewards of your intention not to race.”

check out charge 3. does this mean that the teams refused to race even if there was a chicane??? this would point out it was not the FIA to blame here but the teams themselves....

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I believe the "speed restriction" refers to having the drivers on Michelin tires just slow down before turn 13 - utterly retarded.

That would cause all sorts of problems, i.e. if a Bridgestone driver was just behind a Michelin driver who suddenly started to brake.

Drivers will do what it takes to try and get a win, and if they see a chance to pass they will likely take the risk. I think much of the racing comes down to instinct of the driver, which cannot typically change 5 minutes before the race starts.

The whole thing is really stupid, and i'm hoping this future breakaway from formula 1 puts an end to the retarded way the championship is actually run.

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Well the series does still race on 18 circuits in 16 countries

I thought a world champion meant that someone was, overall, the best at what they did, not merely an observation of where they did it.

One would think that a world driving champion would be tested on road courses, short ovals, high banked ovals, street courses as well as large ovals. The CART series reflected this pretty well in the mid to late 90's and was probably closer to a genuine world driving championship than anything seen recently. Now that the IRL is adding both street and road courses, it may soon challenge for the title as well.

Regardless, the point is that F1 is imploding and it didn't start last weekend in Indy... that was just the latest episode of a sad, ongoing soap opera. The one thing that could save the series is the one thing that seems most beyond their grasp... humility.

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Send 'em out on coarse sand, dried up salt, crater-strewn lunar surface and wet snow. Then we'll see who can drive worth a damn, eh Sopwith?

Think they'd show up?

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OR a woman driver! A woman driver would save Formula One! She saved Indy!

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If the Indianapolis Motor Speedway drops the USGP, then I believe that F1 is finished in the United States. Look at the history:

1. When Tony George brought the FIA to Indy in 2000, it had been nearly a decade since there had been a USGP.

2. Every other promoter who tried to run a F1 event in the United States essentially went bankrupt trying.

3. Many (if not most) of the fans at the USGP were not Americans. They traveled here from all over the world, because it was one of the lowest cost F1 races.

Ticket prices for the USGP start at $75 (US) for the cheap seats, and with only 1/5 as many fans as either the Indianapolis 500, or the Brickyard 400, hotel rooms are easy to get. Yesterday morning on the radio there was an interview with a couple who came here from Poland, because they said it was the only F1 race on the schedule that they could afford to attend.

I could be wrong. I have been before. But I still believe that if the F1 has truly failed in Indianapolis, it is dead so far as the United States is concerned.

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* "Wrongfully refused to allow your cars to race subject to a speed restriction at one corner, which was safe for such tyres as you had available."

check out charge 3. does this mean that the teams refused to race even if there was a chicane??? this would point out it was not the FIA to blame here but the teams themselves....

Brett240 I think this refers to the ridiculous suggestion put forward by the FIA that the cars should drive 'slower' through turn 13 to save their tyres without a chicane having to be put in

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2. Every other promoter who tried to run a F1 event in the United States essentially went bankrupt trying.

I could be wrong. I have been before. But I still believe that if the F1 has truly failed in Indianapolis, it is dead so far as the United States is concerned.

I am sure there will be pressure on the teams/FIA to at least try to run a US GP next year from the sponsors, some/all of whom are in F1 for exposure based on where the races are run. If all of a sudden there is no US GP surely some of the sponsors will be unhappy.

Whether someone will throw shedloads of money at this to try and rescue it will be interesting to see.

Perhaps the way to rescue this one will be for the breakaway series to try and run a GP in 2008. OK it may not be 'F1' as such but it will incorporate some/most of the existing teams and drivers, and hopefully be without the bureaucratic management and baggage of the old F1.

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After all the arguments I've read about how the "rules must be followed" comes this excerpt from the first class action lawsuit against the "Almighties" + the Speedway:

QUOTE: "'The alleged 'race' participated by just three teams did not constitute a true grand prix race under FIA and Formula One rules in that the race was started with an insufficient number of participants,' the lawsuit declared"

So much for Max staking out the "My hands were tied", "rules are rules", "they were warned about durability requirements", (add nauseum) territory. The race should never have gotten a green flag as the lack of entries made it inelegible for World Championship status.

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Please think back (old timers are at an advantage here) about all the "classic" race tracks that the FIA/F1 Drivers Association/Others have insisted that needed chicanes to be used again for racing.

Spa, LeMans, Monza, Daytona, and now turn one at Indy.

Why was it so impossible?

Unfair to Bridgestone, Ferarri, etc., but not mentioned with any substance prior to the fallout of stupidity were the fans in attendence, the television audiance, or the sponsers who foot the outragous bills!

But NOBODY is happy now, including those that could have changed the events!!!!

All the big shots remind me of small time pimps. Makes Cliff Claven seem a real man!

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<Please think back (old timers are at an advantage here) about all the "classic" race tracks that the FIA/F1 Drivers Association/Others have insisted that needed chicanes to be used again for racing.

Spa, LeMans, Monza, Daytona, and now turn one at Indy.>

Very good point.

As I stated, you do what it takes to put on the show. FIA...F1 FAILED!!! let the court room confrontation commence.

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Please read this interview with Paul Stoddard whose Minardi's took part in the race. Very, very interesting reading!

http://www.planet-f1.com/features/race_features/story_20035.shtml

Interesting reading indeed. Thanks for posting that. Perhaps we will seeing history repeating itself like when Jean Marie Balestre was booted out of the presidency of the FIA because a lot of the big players in the sport had lost confidence in him, and replaced with Max Mosely.

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Sorry guys, I came late to this thread, but a couple of thoughts.

Michelin's offer to repay the fans is the smart move by the company at fault!

It is a good PR decision.

FIA has continually stepped on their putz in this matter.

The regulating body should have stopped the race due to the safety issue, it shouldn't have had to fall to the Teams. The chicane was the logical fix, but FIA has lost track of the ball. They still think they own the game!

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Very true. At some point someone needed to step back and look at the big picture... F1's failing reputation worldwide, its failure to capture the American marketplace and one hundred thousand or so fans and millions worldwide who expected a show.

The fact that no one associated with F1 could get past their own personal agenda long enough to consider the big picture is indicative of the root cause behind the decline of the entire series. Its sad that the party that started the problem - Michelin - is also the only one who seemed truly committed to finding a solution.

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Good for Michelin to be the first to put money back into the fans picked pockets.

Latest I read is that 7 of the 10 teams and Max and Bernie have offered to run again in the fall. The three teams that did run would not perform again for free (I'm sooo suprised!).

Thank goodness Tony gave a flat no answer.

Let's see now, two half-assed races make a whole?

Sounds like pre-court manuvering by the FIA, F1, and Michelin 7.

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