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Your thoughts wanted, preservation/restoration?


JLPurcell

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In my recent research into the Nissan restoration program, while communicating with Les Cannaday (Classic Datsun), we came up with an idea for a spin off thread. Les is well known for his knowledge of the Z car and his attention to detail in the restoration of Datsuns. The purpose of the thread would be to collect enthusiast’s thoughts on "restoration and preservation". Being an original owner of a 1972 240Z I know that from the showroom floor not all Z cars were factory original. Mine had color matched mirrors and spook as well as American Racing Libre wheels. Now I know there are enthusiasts and there are purists, and their perspectives will be different on this subject. Les as I, would like to get enthusiasts’ as well as purists’ opinions on the acceptance of restoring: should you attempt to take the car back to its factory original state (according to Webster Dictionary -to restore: bringing or putting back into former position or condition into nearly or quite the original form) or should it be acceptable to consider restoration as a broader condition of the feeling of the time and place of the car utilizing correct period aftermarket parts.

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I'm all for using period correct parts. I'm not a great fan of the restoration that tries replicate the car as it came from the factory.

The best restoration and the hardest to accomplish are when you cannot tell if the car has been restored!!

To try to replicate years of wear is incredibly difficult and time consuming but the results are amazing.

You have to start with a very good and original car to start and then replace parts as required with the best used parts you can find and if you have to use new parts you then have to age these.

Good fun.

Nick

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Apples and Oranges.

Restoration is what it is. Just because a dealer added stuff that wasn't authorized by the factory, it doesn't mean the definition of "restored" has changed.

Example: If the Z car is to be considered "restored", it needs to come with stock steel wheels, and (the now outrageously priced) wheel covers.

The Spook was a "factory authorized" option. There were mirrors that were factory authorized options also. As for them being painted, body color, I don't think that was authorized.

Whichever route is taken is an individual choice, but they should not be confused.

Personally, I'd prefer a Z with a Spook, Mirrors, and Libre's, but that doesn't mean I don't drool over the restored cars that I encounter.

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I was watching the Barrett Jackson thing a while back and they were raving about this perfectly restored muscle car that went for something over $200,000. The radiator support intentionally was over sprayed with black paint or undercoat and it looked crappy but that's how it might have come from the factory and they were trying to make it perfect. In my opinion that's taking it too far but I know some people really go for that kind of thing.

By the way, I saw this nicely restored '71 last night but even this guy doesn't have braided radiator hoses.

post-3294-14150794675655_thumb.jpg

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By the way, I saw this nicely restored '71 last night but even this guy doesn't have braided radiator hoses.

That's one clean looking engine bay. I especially like the valve cover's clean, but not polished, look. That's how I'd like my 2400 OHC cover to look.

My car will go for period available modifications, such as the spook. Maybe use some more modern Nissan parts for engine mods to keep it in he family line. However, my car is too far gone to restore to factory original so that's never been my goal anyway. If it was in very good or near mint I might consider a real restoration, but as is I could certainly find a near perfect example for a lot less than it would cost (in $s and time) to bring my old beast back to anywhere near original ROFL. I do admire anyone is undertaking the task of preserving fine examples of how the Zs look when they left the factory (or how they looked when they hit the dealer's showroom floor).

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That's one clean looking engine bay. I especially like the valve cover's clean, but not polished, look. That's how I'd like my 2400 OHC cover to look.

I agree that is a great look, but I believe that the valve cover, intake and possibly the carbs have been painted.JLP :rolleyes:

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I agree that is a great look, but I believe that the valve cover, intake and possibly the carbs have been painted.JLP :rolleyes:

I didn't ask about the carbs and intake manifold but he said that the valve cover was actually powder-coated.

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I didn't ask about the carbs and intake manifold but he said that the valve cover was actually powder-coated.

I'd agree that the valve cover is powder coated, still a nice look and something I'll consider (that must be preservation, rather than restoration), however I'd bet the carbs are still in their natural, but cleaned, state.

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Jerry,

I asked this same question to a bunch of people a year or so ago. The concensus was; "Its your car, you do what you want to". Frankly, no matter what you do, somebody is going say something. That's just the way the car game is played. It wouldn't be any fun if we couldn't pick on each other. I was so confused by the whole concept that I bought another car!! Yea....

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I am setting my car up to look stock but have some nice upgrades. I am purposefully working every upgrade (using later model factory Nissan parts) in such that all but the most well versed S30 fans would not really be sure the car didn't come that way, but in using the car would the ugraded fuctionality become apparent. All of the upgrades I do will be completely undoable, and I will keep the original parts to reverse the process later, just in case.

When it is through I will hopefully see/show everyone at the MSA show.

I don't think stock sucks, I just think evolving the car, but keeping its cosmetic charactorization, is more in tune with me. I respect both cars that are in the ZRush stable, for the same reason, some one cared enough about both of them to do the job, or have the job done, right.

Will

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I asked this same question to a bunch of people a year or so ago. The concensus was; "Its your car, you do what you want to". Frankly, no matter what you do, somebody is going say something. That's just the way the car game is played. It wouldn't be any fun if we couldn't pick on each.

Amen brother!

If you love your car enough to keep it from the rust demons and salvage yards, it really doesn't matter what you do. Personally I love the period correct mods. If I would have bought it brand new in '72 the wheels and hubcaps wouldn't have lasted a week. And I've never owned a car that I didn't try to get more power out of.

After All... "Pride, Performance, Preservation"

Nate :smoke:

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I was/am a hot rodder of American iron and have hacked up more vehicles than I care to admit to. I always respected the guys that could take an old hulk and put it back to showroom condition. I was always looking for more horsepower, better handling, etc. That was, until I got my Z. My folks bought it new in 72 and didn't change anything. My mom used it for her daily driver until 2002. Sure, it's been maintained, things have been replaced as they wore out/broke-whatever, but it's still all stock. I got it in Feb 2002 and drive it on nice days now, not my daily by a long shot. There's still some things that need attention, but I could never modify it because of the sentimental value of it. Now, if I could only find another to tweak......

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Have one of each! One that's bone stock and one that's modified. That way your covered by the "purists" and the "stock sucks" crowd :D

Vicky

:D This is what I've decided to try to do in order to pacify my demons. :devious: One one hand I would love to put a set of 44mm Mikuni's, lower, Minilites, etc.. my persimmon 72 when I get done "restoring/preserving" but I also want to have a "bone stock" example. Have the 72 and the parts, working on a stock example. :)JLP

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Have one of each! One that's bone stock and one that's modified. That way your covered by the "purists" and the "stock sucks" crowd :D

Vicky

That's the ticket! I'm doing my 280Z up however I feel like, and trying to keep the 240Z as close to stock as available parts, budget, and time allow.

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Jerry,

Type "Rally Clock" in the search function. One of my favorite threads was http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14422&highlight=Rally+Clock

I was rooting around a friend's shop a couple of days after Christmas and saw it. He said he had been meaning to tell me about it and asked me if I wanted it. It is an early rally clock option - the one with the oscillator. I listed the part numbers in one of those posts.

So getting on with this subject, I have always liked an optioned out version of the home market S30. It was rather luxurious, sporting a passenger foot rest, headlight covers, and a other things I have managed to collect. As a tribute to the accuracy of such a presentation, I have collected a mesh grill, carburetor and ignition parts for the engine. I am considering filling in the rear marker light. And the 6" Watanabes would go on the car.

In terms of bone stock HLS30s, I like the extra bumper bars and have a set of those. I'm looking for one of the AMCO chrome luggage bars for the interior. You are usually allowed 5 modifications.

Then I have a bunch of other stuff that could contribute to a presentation. BRE spook and spoiler, 6" Slots, Momo mahagony steering wheel, later style Bosch fog lights with Datsun covers (probably 280Z), bra (every babe has to have a black bra). I have this Datsun 8-track, but it is for a 510 or something. Would love an 8-track that came with the S30.

I used to joke about dressing up the car like a barbie doll in the period fashion. That was because I only had one car at the time. Now with two, I can have it both ways which was one of my considerations buying the second....ah....ragamuffin. I already had the parts.

So you dress up your car any way you want! My problem is deciding who gets what outfit!

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Hi Jerry // everyone:

In your opening remarks to this thread, you said: "Now I know there are enthusiasts and there are purists, and their perspectives will be different on this subject.

I would like to change all our perspectives on this subject, even if ever so slightly.

In the context that that we usually hear the term "Purists"; as in "the Purists"... It seems to be a reference to a fanatically motivated, although small group, of individuals who insist on forcing their gospel on the Classic Car Community they happen to be in.

They don't hesitate preaching fire and brimstone to anyone publicly, if the unwashed dare to modify a sacred Classic. Like all fanatics, the Purists really enjoy getting in your face and under your skin, while at the same time failing completely to comprehend the true meaning of the Gospels Of Restoration.

Having properly identified and defined them above, let's set that group aside for the minute, for they are "False Purists".

The "True Purist" is really a wonderful combination of subject knowledge, artistic ability, perseverance and perfectionism. The True Purist is our most honest historian, working tirelessly on uncovering the true origins of our marque.... ie. "as it left the factory".

The True Purist can be found grouped within one or several categories of automotive enthusiasts. He might actually be a "restorer of classic cars" or a "Collector of Classic Cars". The True Purist might simply be one who first performs exhaustive research and then writes about the marque. In many cases the True Purist may be a combination of all these or none.

One doesn't have to "own" a 100 Point Concours Example, nor even to "build" one. The True Purist may simply be a person who has only a driving thirst for knowledge related to the subject of our affections. One who appreciates possessing ever deeper and finer, especially if little known, facts about the how the cars were built in the first place.

The fact is, the True Purist and the Enthusiasts are one and the same. The True Purists will appreciate your Classic, no matter where it falls on the continuum from 100 Point Concours Original to Beautifully Modified.

The True Purists will always appreciate "Cinderella" and disdain a "Frankenstein Monster". What makes a True Purists different from the average enthusiast? The True Purists will know in fine detail, the difference between the two.

Preservation is the first step to restoration.

With kind regards to the True Purists among you.

Carl

Carl Beck

Clearwater,FL USA

http://ZHome.com

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Every individual is different!

Its all a matter of what you want to do with your car and how you want it to look, and lets not forget how your car makes you feel. Its as simple and as complicated as that.

Just my 2 cents.

Alex

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Good thread..I'll bite.. :lick:

Like stated by others I say do what you want with it and turn it into something you love and it's all good. I may hate it, I may love it but that doesn't matter as long as it's cared for and loved by someone then it's not being ignored and turned into something aweful by mother nature.

I'd like to think there's different levels of restoration...not just all or nothing. In other words I belive in restoration with a twist. I'm restoring some things to factory or as close to factory condition as I can like the rear defroster that I want to get working, the interior body panels and doors, while other things I'm modifying to improve performance and looks of the car. Things like the stereo isn't stock and it wont ever return to stock, it looks and sounds good but isn't turned into a boom box, the shocks will be replaced with 5-way tokicos, 16 or 17 inch wheels with low profile tires also to help handling, upgraded sway bars, engine mods, etc.

My car will be.. or well..is in the modified/hybrid section though some things will be restored on it. I don't think of the work I'm doing as purely modifying it I consider myself to be restoring it with improvements :D :bandit:

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