26th-Z

That's what I heard, Tomohawk. I hope everyone is enjoying this as much as I am. Special greetings to 240 in OZ! Here are some of the cars that are listed on the VZ car register Carl set up. Enjoy

Sorry about the picture quality, everyone. This is the best I can do with what I have. I anticipate improvement. Carl, Lets post the quotes so everyone knows what we are talking about. These are copyright "Fairlady Z Story" (translation, Brian Long) Miki Press. In terms of "roots", the first quote eludes to the importance of the 25th National Convention in Atlanta. The second quote eludes to the importance of what now probably was Mike Taylor's visit. I can easily understand how the event would be described by Katayama san as such. The importance of these two events cannot be overlooked, however interpreted. They represent the ground swell of enthusiast response to Nissan's announcement of terminating the Z. They represent the involvement of Yutaka Katayama after his retirement, suggesting his influence in what was then future planning of the Z car. Thanks for that l o n g post. I think we are on the same page. Thanks ( wow, serious thanks, WAY TO GO) for creating the VZCR. I'll help you fill in some spots.

I think this is the green automatic which would put it low on the 0 - some40 list. This is an ABC channel 7 interview with Pierre on May 3, 1997 at the Vintage Z Rally. The Z is an automatic. Another automatic at the Rally was this gold one. It sold on eBay about 9 months ago. Remember Carl? I sent you an e-mail saying we thought there was only one A/T car? Before you respond that it is Jim's, I don't think so. Jim's has a distinguishing mark that is not on this car as far as I can tell.

OMG, which one do I reply to first? How about your setting up the VZCR? Wow! Way cool! 'Bout time!!!! At-a-Boy!!! Saved me a whole bunch of work - thanks seriously thanks.

Thanks for the info, Carl. I'll post the entire "Greetings from the Z-Store at Nissan Corporate" so that everyone can see that I am not making things up. Thanks for the "Mad Mike" letter. Would you please highlight the passages that refer to a discussion about buying up old Zs, refurbishing them, and selling them back to the public again? I just can't find it. Sounds like he had a good time though. So let me get this straight. He "threatened to make house calls" and that constitutes representation? Yes I AM 25% sure Mike had something to do with it. Take a look at "Z-Store Update" from Z Car Magazine, Spring 1997; page 8. "The Z Store idea began when a handful of Nissan dealers got together with the president of Nissan Motor Corp. USA to discuss the the discontinuation of the 300ZX. All of these guys have been strong supporters (and sellers) of the Z-car over the years and all of them believe that the Z market is still alive". (typos included on purpose) And thanks for the letter from Pete Evanow. From now on, I will use the correct terminology, some 40, when discussing how many cars were actually produced. At least until I find the real documentation. Halz, the correct terminology is Z Restoration Program. Vintage Zs are the cars and they were sold through the Z-Store program. Katayama used the abbreviation "VZ" and I suggest it be adopted in place of the word factory. gnose, I'm pretty much up to what you are describing. Your past suggestions and comments well taken. And finally...Carl, if I am stepping on toes, just tell me and I'll sit down and shut up. Is Pete going to write a book, or was that just more talk? It has been six years. Otherwise, I am not into writing adversarial posts claiming my story is right and your story is wrong. I am into reporting without bias the facts as they can be reconstructed from written documentation and reflected with personal recollection. I really apprecaite your help. You have a wealth of information and I plan to spend more time with you sifting through your archives. For my plans, I anticipate conducting research for a certain period of time and then writing about what I found from whom. It will not be all-encompassing, but it will be a concerted effort capturing a moment in time as is typical of a research project.

Here is the ZCCA website link. http://www.zcca.org/index.htm Check it out. Nice site and there is a discussion forum.

Este, Buy a can of PB Blaster penetrating oil and be very carefull taking the bolts out. Bet you $1 you break one off.

At the moment, I am saying 40-odd because I really don't know how many were made! I hear rumors about uncompleted assembled cars and body shells in primer. I believe that body shells were sold off at the end of the program along with used parts and assembly equipment like these body dollie pictures. I think the red #33 car is coming to Florida and I hope to photograph it when it arrives. That will make three of them within an hours drive from me. I have seen Vintage Z decals on one quarter window, both quarter windows, and on the windshield. To the best of my knowledge, they all have a console plaque. It makes perfect sense. These cars were specially promoted and specially sold at special stores. The Z-Store program was ten dealers throughout the Southern United States. Yes zhead240! Send pictures! Hi Zrush! You bring up a good point. The guy who did Zrush probably would not have fit in the program. I'll get to discussing the economics of this program and the impact it had in the future. Carl brought up that he had heard eighteen different body shops were involved and I am not surprised. There is a lot of talk about what happened at the body shop level. Nissan envisioned producing 200 cars and focused their purchases in the Southern California area. Imagine the work load generated within a period of two years to Southern California body shops. The Nissan literature indicates that the chassis were completely stripped and the stuff I have from Pierre says bead blasted. This is demonstrating a lot of work in a short time frame. "Taxing the infrastructure" is how Zcar magazine put it in the Spring of 1997. Pierre indicates that he initially discussed doing one car a month with Nissan. Zcar reports Nissan anticipated 10 cars per month.

Jerry, Type "Rally Clock" in the search function. One of my favorite threads was http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14422&highlight=Rally+Clock I was rooting around a friend's shop a couple of days after Christmas and saw it. He said he had been meaning to tell me about it and asked me if I wanted it. It is an early rally clock option - the one with the oscillator. I listed the part numbers in one of those posts. So getting on with this subject, I have always liked an optioned out version of the home market S30. It was rather luxurious, sporting a passenger foot rest, headlight covers, and a other things I have managed to collect. As a tribute to the accuracy of such a presentation, I have collected a mesh grill, carburetor and ignition parts for the engine. I am considering filling in the rear marker light. And the 6" Watanabes would go on the car. In terms of bone stock HLS30s, I like the extra bumper bars and have a set of those. I'm looking for one of the AMCO chrome luggage bars for the interior. You are usually allowed 5 modifications. Then I have a bunch of other stuff that could contribute to a presentation. BRE spook and spoiler, 6" Slots, Momo mahagony steering wheel, later style Bosch fog lights with Datsun covers (probably 280Z), bra (every babe has to have a black bra). I have this Datsun 8-track, but it is for a 510 or something. Would love an 8-track that came with the S30. I used to joke about dressing up the car like a barbie doll in the period fashion. That was because I only had one car at the time. Now with two, I can have it both ways which was one of my considerations buying the second....ah....ragamuffin. I already had the parts. So you dress up your car any way you want! My problem is deciding who gets what outfit!

One of each? Then they wouldn't be twins? How about spiritual twins? Here is my latest modification for one of the babes.

If you go back through our archives and read the debates about the Vintage Zs, you will see (1. Me making an idiot of myself) many questions about "aftermarket" parts, wheels primarily. Then there are a few comments about stereo systems, incorrect parts, milage...all kinds of questions about the cars' build. I have several pieces of information sources that are NOT included in this writing, and this topic will grow. I think it will separate into a body conversation, an assembly conversation and a parts discussion. There is no intention or implication on my part to debate the merits or faults of the restoration technique; rather focus on the reasons why certain things were done the way they were and what is common between the cars' build. Later, as the story unfolds, scheduling and delivery will play a role in this process and you will see how these cars fit the Nissan plan. I think you will see, as this story develops, method to the madness. Here is a blurb on method. …talk about how the Vintage Z cars were prepared. How were they restored? What techniques were used? What finishes? What do we see when we view these cars which may differ from the way they left the factory in 1970, ’71 and ’72? Nissan makes strong statements about how these cars were “improved”, “upgraded”. Nissan was selling brand new cars with 12 month / 12,000 mile warranties. There were Federal laws and liability issues to contend with. Requirements for vehicle emissions and passenger safety had changed. Although they were previously owned, previously registered, they were sold representing new cars. This is where the concept of equating brand new to refurbished and restored plays into marketing the cars. They had to be portrayed as brand new eliminating the question of worn out or how they were simply “repaired”. They had to be portrayed as restored to avoid the different legislation. To this extend, “restoration” took on a meaning of part replacement. “New restoration”. “Restored new”. This article deals with the official Nissan description of how the cars were prepared. Pierre Perrot estimated Nissan was able to provide between 75% and 80% of the parts replaced in an interview he gave at the Vintage Z Rally, May 3, 1996. At the time, approximately five cars had been completed. Later in the Z Restoration Program, trends and techniques become more evident. In order to replace all the parts, the car had to be completely taken apart. Certainly the old body shell had to be cleaned and repaired. Everything had to come off for the shell to be thoroughly treated. There is indication that they were primarily bead blasted. “Now that all the car’s components have been removed, the 240Zs body is taken apart as well. The hood, fenders, doors and liftgate are removed, and all panels are carefully stripped down to bare metal. Rotating platforms allow the technicians to check every nook and cranny of the panels. Craftsmen then go to work on the sheet metal until every inch of it meets their high standards, free of ripples, blemishes or dents”. To the best of my knowledge, all the Pierre prepared cars were undercoated. This may have been common to all the cars as a Nissan specification. “Next, the body and panels are painted an original factory color. This time, however, the paint process gives the chassis a far more lustrous and durable finish than was possible all those years ago. Just one example of how the Z Restoration Program uses today’s advanced technology to compliment the classic features of the Z”. In a later publication, Nissan comments on paint colors. Evidently, we find that the buyer had some input “…and we feel it is important to be able to provide specific paint choices and model years, as desired by our buyers.” New sound deadening material was installed as well as insulation. There is evidence that this material was hand cut to fit each car. “…while improved sound-deadening material has been added to help deliver a quieter ride”. Nissan indicates that new interior parts were made. “Presently, we are only able to offer the black interior, but we are looking into the possibility….”. And; “We have found a company that has developed tooling to manufacture new interior components, from the carpeting to sun visors, and we are very pleased with their work”. “Their designs are exactly like those found in an original Z, right down to the stitching patterns, but they are made with higher quality materials”. A tremendous amount of hardware was replaced. “”When available, genuine Nissan parts are used…Many ancillary components including the alternator, starter motor and fuel pump are replaced with new units or ones that have been remanufactured to our stringent standards”. The engines, transmissions, braking and steering systems were completely overhauled and “some things are automatically replaced”. “As always, if there is any doubt about whether a part should be replaced, we simply replace it”. Nissan literature talks briefly about updating some aspects of the 240Z. A 3-row radiator was used and the tire specification was updated. In an effort to provide more durability to suspension components they were powder coated “to factory colors” so as to “ensure that you will enjoy your 240Z’s performance for years to come”. An air-conditioning kit using an “updated” rotary-style compressor with U.S.-legal R-134A refrigerant was made available through Courtesy Nissan in Texas. There is indication that the air-conditioning kits were installed during restoration as well as later by the specific Z-Store dealer. Most all the rubber was available new including the hoses. Very early in the production, cloth braided radiator hoses dissappeared as did the brake vacumn hose. Both of those are commonly rubber. The top radiator hose displays a white arrow indicating the fit of the hose. Hose clamps are commonly the hex head type - zinc plated - and seem to be consistantly used throughout the engine bay. OK for the moment. Sentences and long word phrases in quotes are from some of my sources. Words I put in my own quotes to denote a certin flexibility in meaning. Here are the pictures to accompany the text.

Even though I am still collecting information, I stick to my guns. "As far as I can determine, "Factory" was never used by Nissan. Never. I can quote all kinds of Nissan people (edit: sources), including Katayama." As soon as I find any sort of NMC documentation that uses the word "factory", I'll let you know. Promise.

Carl and group, When I started this thread, I received a few e-mails from people concerned that the conversation would turn into another "he said / she said" dispute and I pledged to "report" corroborated, documented information - hard evidence that I could point to and perhaps share. There is plenty of it around. I also pledge to retract anything that I "report" incorrectly or misinterpret. That happened a few posts ago. I am also very amenable to report all the “he said / she said” conversations I hear and suggest they be represented as such. I am still aggressively gathering information. I don’t think there is enough material to write a book about or that anyone would buy it, but there is definitely enough to write a long essay and as of this post, I announce my intentions to do so. I will be conducting this similarly to a “semester research project” that I’m sure many of you can relate to. Everyone who contributes gets credit and the final document will be available to everyone. As I write, I will post so that everyone can comment, contribute and encourage. I think that Vintage Zs represent a unique chapter in the history of a unique automobile and the story needs to be told accurately; however the chips may fall. It is a good reading story from the looks of it. Thanks for calling today, Carl. I will happily come and help you dig through your archives. I appreciate all the help you can offer. I don’t want you to think that I believe everything in print, either. Verbal recollections of events certainly help to reinforce what was written at the time. As we discussed over the phone, the letter makes no reference to buying up old cars, restoring them, and selling them again. However, it IS a critical piece of the story – no doubt. And that’s where this information is coming from. Old Z club newsletters, magazines, photographs and home movies. I’m currently waiting for a collection of photographs and a magazine article from Australia. I just received a collection from Atlanta. Another superb collection has been located in Washington. Several people actively involved in the Program have indicated their support. That’s how wonderful the response has been. I can’t thank everyone enough! I surely intend to do something worthy of all the help. Here are some pictures from home movies.

Jerry, I asked this same question to a bunch of people a year or so ago. The concensus was; "Its your car, you do what you want to". Frankly, no matter what you do, somebody is going say something. That's just the way the car game is played. It wouldn't be any fun if we couldn't pick on each other. I was so confused by the whole concept that I bought another car!! Yea....

Hey Carl, Just a quick reply to say that I have another long post worked up concerning the production process with a bunch of photos. Mike Taylor is one of four people with their hand in the air at the moment. And I haven't talked to half the people I really need to contact. You should see the information I'm finding. Right now, Mike Taylor has a 25% chance of being correct in my mind. I said in the begining post that this was a sensitive subject. Yea!!! As far as I can determine, "Factory" was never used by Nissan. Never. I can quote all kinds of Nissan people, including Katayama. The NMC U.S.A. invitation is entitled; "Vintage Z Quality Control Launch Rally" and the Logo for the event says; "Vintage Z Rally". Thanks for all that info, Carl. It is scheduled for another long write-up with bunches of pictures. The first car, silver '70, was there along with 3 other HLS30s and an S32. Katayama's famous yellow HLS30 was the lead car. Two of the Vintage Z HLS30s were automatics. I can now account for three automatics in the program. Oh! and Carl, we're planning a Z mecca day with honored guests 1/29. And I just registered for ZFest.

Pearl Jam "rearviewmirror" is in the Cd player right now. I do have a couple of special "road music" Cds people have given me. I'll dig them out and list what's on them.

Thanks! Here's the picture. Mindfull of the copyright - Nissan Motor Corporation.

Thanks Carl. That is pretty much the picture that is going to emerge. What does a corporation do when they kill the very car that made them famous? Katayama appeared at the induction ceremonies for the final 300 ZX proclaiming the Z was not dead and pitching Nissan products. Does someone have copies of the correspondence - say the invitation sent to Katayama? There are people writing to me asking about such documents. There are people writing me asking for hard documentation to corroborate many of these events. Case in point....Most people will tell you that there were two or three shops involved in the Program. There were four. Nissan documentation includes a production figure for two of the shops at a certain date. Another point…The Z Restoration Program was a two-phased program initiated with the sale of later model cars. That issue was announced at the Vintage Z Rally / Picnic in 1997. The later model cars were already on sale. For a fact, at least one Vintage Z was completed on a customer specification basis. It went to an editor of Autoweek magazine equipped with an Eibach suspension kit, custom exhaust system, spook and spoiler, and other modifications. I love the recollections that I have been hearing, but who was "a representative from the American clubs was sent to Tokyo to plead with Nissan to revive the Z." Representing what American clubs? Where is the correspondence surrounding that? With whom did this person meet? You see, the story is a good one and as I dig into this a little, I am beginning to see where a lot of it originates. Some of it is based in fact. Some of it is a little off color. Actually, I started all this because of the off color F word. The F word is a press interpretation of Nissan marketing. It is taking me some time to sort through the facts. I just got fooled by Road & Track! Many thanks to MikeW, Bambikiller240, 2ManyZs, gnose, halz, JLPurcell and others who have written with suggestions, comments, and information. Thanks to you, Carl, for the information you gave me the other day. I still have plenty to write about. Information is still coming in. I am hoping for a most factual discussion of the project. Here is Dale Ishimoto (I am uncertain of the spelling) with Yutaka Katayama at the Vintage Z Rally and Picnic, May 3, 1997.

Hey John! You make a good point about the pace cars. I see that Beck has updated his article about the cars as well as pictures. Trying to track these cars down is a huge task. Then there is the privacy of the owner factor. For that matter, trying to track down the Vintage Zs is going to be a task. Did anyone save pictures of the eBay cars (two or three of them) from last May? One of them was an automatic and I would dearly like to see pictures - any pictures - of any of the cars. Come-on you guys! Dig out your archives! In the mean time, here are some of my photos of the console plaque and glass emblems.

Before I sit down and write some more, I need to correct my post with the Road & Track photographed car. What bothered me was the issue with the dates. I understood the first car was completed in February, months after when this article would have been written. But look closely at the glass and you will find no Vintage Z emblems. This is not the car that "Autoweek on Speedvision" used for their report, March 1997. I don't see this car in the videos of the Vintage Z Rally, May 3,1997. Although, I do see the "Autoweek" car at the rally. I think the yellow example is a "pre VZ" car. Sorry.

Thanks, I have been watching it I don't need a piece of glass, but it would be nice to have a spare. However, the deal is that the glass is not rare. I know it is NLA, but for how many cars? How many show car projects out there need a piece of clear glass? I don't think there is much of a market. It is going to cost $130 to ship, so that's a consideration. The auction started at $100, then it jacked to $400, and now it is $300. I'm out - still too much for me. I am also in the midst of a parts trade for a piece of used clear glass and I'm afraid if my friend sees the eBay glass go for golden nuggets, our deal will fall through. The defroster option is much nicer and those pieces of glass go for around $150 or less. Seriously, there are pieces of clear glass out there. You just have to go looking. Don't let this eBay GAFFF continue! RARE IS A MISUNDERSTOOD WORD! I DID check Princess 27 for the wiring yesterday and she does NOT have wiring in her harness for the defroster. Her Majesty's harness is in a box...somewhere....

Hey new2z! It doesn't sound like the black paint is very well applied and stripping might very well be the best solution, especially with body work you are proposing, but consider just sanding it. Get somebody to show you how to sand a car, but get the rough spots with a rough grit first and then fine sand and wet sand. You will get to bare metal spots - don't worry about it. You are going to sand the car after you strip it anyhow. Try sanding it really well and see if that doesn't do it for you. It sounds like you have never done anything like this before. Do your hood first. It will give you a lot of experience and keep your car intact while you try this out. Take the hood off, lay it on a table, and re-finish it. That task will give you a really good idea of what the car is going to be like. You are talking about months of work to a garaged car. Winter will be long gone before you are ready to paint. As far as painting the engine bay- its just a matter of how much you are willing to take off or mask. I never liked Her Majesty's engine bay and that was another reason I took her apart. For color, I always prefer the cuffs to match the collars. That goes for door jambs too. As long as you have the rubbers, pop the glass and paint the whole thing. 907 green is possibly THE most common / popular color of the early birds - shows a nice waxing very well. Have fun and good luck!

Here is the Nissan published reprint from Road & Track's article on the Z Restoration Program. This must be the "journalist" car; one of the first completed. It was done by Pierre and includes a short biography of him; "An instantly likable, French-born former race mechanic, Perot headed the Renault racing effort in the early sixties, preparing an M63 Alpine prototype in 1963 for his close personal friend, Mark Donohue. More recently (for the past 21 years, to be exact), he has been racing, modifying, restoring and maintaining Z-cars out of his shop, Pierre' Z in Hawthorn, California." The date of the article has me a bit confused. My understanding was that the first cars were not completed before February and this article must have been prepared months prior. There was plenty of publicity though. The oldest reference I have is “Back to Its Rootz”; Automotive News, Mark Rechtin, October 28, 1996. Pierre recalls that Nissan approached him in October, 1996. You will notice a lot of modifications in the photographs. You will see custom mirrors and a stereo right off the bat. The article states that stock wheels and hubcaps were put on for the photographs (replacing slotted mags) and the custom air cleaner was replaced. I have long contended that many Vintage Z examples are not stock reproductions. I have been listening to a discussion about Nissan providing restoration services to private customer cars and I am aware that some pre-order Z-Store customers were able to provide their own spec. I am aware of those cars. Here is further proof. This material is copyrighted; Road & Track; "Datsun 240Z; Japan Reinvents the Sports Car", Douglas Kott, February 1997.