Carl Beck

Hi Guys: There are a lot of "issues" with the insurance coverage on items shipped, and it depends on who or what shipping/insurance company you are dealing with. It would take several pages to outline the grief of the entire process, in all cases. 1. In two of the three cases - AIR - AirBourne/Fed-X it is the "shipper" that is insured, not the person receiving the shipment. (even though in most cases it is the receiver that pays for insurance) That means that whoever you purchased the item from, has to deal with the insurance forms and process. That means that once you have paid for an item, the seller has your money and really no great incentive to focus on recovering it from the insurance company, then returning it to you. This dash is a good example... there is only one... and if it gets damaged in shipment... you have to supply proof of damage on your end, hold the item for inspection, be there when THEY want to inspect it etc. Then you have to push the seller to do his part on his end... This may or may not be a problem, depending on the seller. 2. YOU have to provide PROOF of Purchase, prove that the item can not be repaired, supply an invoice for the replacement item if it can be replaced. ( I was very lucky that I had a friend at a Nissan Dealership's Parts Dept. that would send me an invoice for a new Dash - along with a letter from the Service Manager stating that there was no repair available for a dash - it was a replacement item only - most people are not going to be able to get that paperwork). All the document gathering and submission is on your time.. and they usually either reject the claim the first time, or return with more requirements for farther documentation. If it is a private seller of an unusual item, with what they consider an unusual price - then they require that the seller submit a notarized statement of value etc. Then you start dealing with a Claims Adjustor that offers to settle for less than the insured value - when you refuse to that - your claim goes into a black hole somewhere.. On the third dash - I arranged both pick-up and delivery - Thinking that I'd avoid the hassle of trying to get the seller to do all the paperwork on his end, if anything happened. So in this case I was both the shipper and receiver. I had UPS pick the item up and deliver it. I was not home when they delivered and came home to find a crushed box left on the front porch.. The insurance company they use, simply did not have a process set up to handle claims where the same party was both shipper and receiver - I went round and round with them... It was an $850.00 claim, and they have a automatic $100.00 deductible (that they don't make clear when you purchase the insurance - but that's another story)... Large retailers - have the funds or inventory to simply ship another item if your purchase is damaged and they deal with the insurance, or they self insure. It's the individual seller that sends a few things out - and has no cash reserve to return your money if something is damaged that presents the most risk to you. Can you refuse a shipment? Yes, if you are there when delivery is made, and if you can catch the driver before he runs for his truck. The problem then becomes recovering your payment from the seller, because now you have no proof of damage to the item, you have no item and the seller has your money, plus the seller has proof of delivery for the credit card company etc. Can you refuse a shipment? Yes - if you require a signature for delivery, leave a sign at your door that tells the shipper you will not accept delivery without a signature. Plus use only a credit card for payment. That way you only have to deal with your credit card company to get the charge reversed when delivery is not completed. But even then, if you refused delivery, or allowed it to be returned to the seller - they can/do charge large restocking fees. Like I said above - a lot depends on who you are dealing with. I'd say that in general - shipping insurance is a racket. Anything like a 35+ year old dash - I'd only buy if I could see it at the sellers location and pick it up myself - or have a knowledgeable friend pick it up personally. FWIW, Carl B.

Yes - you can be sure it will be less maintenance with the paint, although it's the outter lips that take the time.. Left to turn gray naturally, you have to keep them coated with a very light oil, and you have to keep them dry. It takes a special process, and specific primer to adhear to the mag...No one around here knew how to do that, nor what to use as the primer. So I just let them age.. Mine already had a sealing/coating on the inside of the mounting surfaces so I left that in place... without it, the mag's will leak down fairly quickly. FWIW, Carl

Hi Sean. Carl B.

Hi Mike: You know I'm just kidding..I'm sure I will find another (or another set)... The wheels look great... It didn't seem like enough time had passed to have the centers turn dark gray. As I recall it took several months for mine to turn. Did you paint them? FWIW. Carl B.

You are really quite cruel. Carl B.

They were all beautifully packed... the shippers crushed the containers. One was wood framed, plywood exterior. Dash wrapped in bubble wrap, then packed inside at least four inches of packing peanuts on all sides. It looked like the container was dropped from a great height, and landed on one corner.. the "shock" made the dash flex inside the container, and it cracked right in the middle... big wide crack. Another was packed just fine - lots of padding, lots of packing peanuts.. The cardboard container looked like they had sat an entire shipping container (truck trailer type) on it. It crushed the box, and the dash inside..

In todays market $9K is most likely a reasonable price to pay for an early car in that condition. I'd like to see more pictures of the interior - but what I do see looks pretty good.. FWIW, Carl B.

I've had three Series I dashes shipped... all three were destroyed in shipping. You wouldn't believe the hassles trying to get the insurance company to pay... takes years... FWIW Carl B.

Kind of makes you want to have a good roll cage installed.... along with a 5 point and strong seat..

Anyone know where HLS30 00198 is NOW.. and how to contact the owner? {old e-mail address isn't working} thanks, Carl B.

Buying, Selling and Trading cars really is a carry over from the days of horse trading. "Buyer Beware" and "a fool and his money are soon parted" apply in spades! Its a matter of knowledge and experience vs a lack of both in all to many cases. Everyone wants to brag about a good deal they made, no one wants to admit to being snookered. For that matter, few people want to admit that they paid full asking price for anything. All too often seller, buyer or both get so tied up in the negotiation of the deal - that one or the other really miss closing a sale on a super car. Ego takes over.. and knowledge/experience are wasted. Good models depend on accurate data points and I'm afraid that when it comes to horse trading, or car trading accurate data points will always be elusive at best. People guard their privacy, actual selling prices are rarely reported for purposes of paying State Sales Taxes. Who in their right minds would then publish proof that they lied to the Tax Authority? If you knew someone paid less than $5K for a car, would you then be willing to pay $25K for it? With rising values of Classic Sports Car why then would anyone want to publish the actual price they paid for a car?.... da.... Large sums of CASH trade hands, and are then broken into far smaller sums and deposited in many different bank accounts all under the $10K reporting criteria (private transactions are none of the DEA nor IRS's business). About the only place we get a chance to see how much a car sold for - is at the auctions and E-Bay. Even then there are dubious transactions, sales that are backed out of after the car is physically inspected or the wife finds out. Not to mention the fact that we have no idea of the actual quality of the car because we haven't actually physically inspected it. The bottom line is: When it comes to value or worth, simply ask yourself; "what else can I buy today in the Classic Sports Car market that offers the owner satisfaction and future potential for the amount of money I have to spend?" If there is nothing else, then buy the 240-Z you want. If there is something else that offers more - go buy it instead. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Larry: I was one of the people that sent you a PM - and referred you to the previous discussion thread related to E-Bay Sellers, and more specifically to DatsunParts. I'm glad to know that I wasn't the only one. The car was offered on E-Bay several times before, and it was discussed here. I too will hope that when you receive the car - it is actually delivered on time and turns out fine, and that you are happy with the purchase. I'm sure we all wish you the best. I also hope your recommendation of Datsun Parts isn't premature. FWIW, Carl B.

Low number in the world of artwork = higher quality. Low number in Z's = higher value because of rarity and/or interesting build process - ie. an interesting story about that car that very few others can tell. Hand welds vs machine welds = higher value because of rarity - and/or something additional of interest. A few coins minted by the U.S. Mint are worth serious bucks because they got out into circulation with a "flaw"... super rare and additional intersting story to tell. FWIW, Carl B.

What is "special" about the first 500 or 1000 (depending), is the fact that they contained many preproduction or prototype parts - not found on later cars (as mentioned earlier). It simply makes them more interesting to serious Collectors. What is "special" about the 69 production year Datsun 240-Z's is the fact that only a known very limited number of them were built. Again making them special to serious collectors. 535 mol vs 20,000, 32,000, 52,000 etc. Who the car is "special" too does matter as it relates directly to the market value of the car. Serious Collectors want the first year of production, and they really like owning one of the first few produced. To a growing number of Serious Collectors, a #1 Condition, 1969 production year, $40K 240-Z is a bargain today. Much the same as when they were cherry picking the 63-67 Corvettes and paying between $12K and $18K twenty years ago for #1 and #2 condition examples. Or buying Classic Ferraris in the $40K to $60K range 30 year ago. Enthusiasts, as much as they love the cars - really never do comprehend "Collecting" nor "Collectors". Not to many of us have 10 or 20 Classic Ferraris, Jag.'s, Porsches or BMW's in our collections. But that doesn't mean these people aren't out there, and in great numbers today. The sharpest Collectors today realize that no Classic Sports Car collection is complete without a Datsun 240-Z. Serious Collectors love Classic Sports Cars. It isn't about the money (they are for the most part loaded with money).. it really is about their love for beautiful lines, competition history, significant design. They buy these cars to KEEP. Don't confuse Serious Collectors, with Speculators that flip cars in a year or two. Speculators buy low and sell high if they can. BTW - No one really said the first 500 came over on a single boat. R&T reported that the first boat to arrive in L.A. with 240-Z's, carried only 20 Z's. As that ship arrived the first part of Jan. 1970 - and BRE got one of them - we can only guess what other cars were on it. Bottom line is - if you care about the future value of a 240-Z, that you plan to spend $25K to $35K or far more, restoring to a #1 Condition. Then the 240-Z's with the lowest VIN's and 1969 Production Dates make the most common sense to start with. They will always bring a premium over the later production cars and they will usually sell more quickly. That is already true today and it will most likely be true tomorrow. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Julio: There are actually three different rear spoilers being discussed here. So the first question is, "which one do you have?" 1. An original Nissan OEM rear spoiler 2. The aftermarket reproduction of the OEM rear spoiler {produced most recently by Classic Datsun Autosports - Les Cannaday}. 3. The BRE style rear spoiler - also reproduced most recently by CDM/Les The first two will have the raised flat area - intended to hold the emblems, the third type will not have the raised flat area. If you have the #3 type, I'd leave the emblems off, as it is hard to mount a flat emblem on a curved surface. In any case, if you remove the emblems from your deck lid, make sure you fill the holes before mounting the rear spoiler. 100% silicone calking or RTV will seal the holes without damage to the body. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Bob: Glad to hear that everyone is OK. That is exactly why I have a second 72 240-Z to drive - You simply can not replace the Z you've owned for 36 years!! Here in Florida it's Alligators rather than Deer.. To bad someone isn't offering an Anti-lock brake upgrade for the old Z's rather than the "big brake" options!! That would be far more useful for most of us... FWIW, Carl B.

#194 at this point would most likely be the best buy if you wanted to restore a 69. Given all the spare parts and work already done, plus the fact that it's already back East... The reduction in the total "hassle factor" alone worth $5K.. FWIW, Carl B.

Great thread Danglybanger... fun to read My Father liked big fast cars 40's Caddy's and early to mid 50's Packards. Something he had in common with my first Step-Father (Dad died when I was 11). My first Step Father had a 56 Packard 400. When his son got to drive the Packard he was 17 and I was 13... there wasn't a Chevy nor street rod in town that big huge Packard couldn't walk away from. Step Dad, his son and I went "car shopping" in 58. He drove a Chrysler 300, then we went to the Pontiac Dealer and drove a Bonneville with F.I., then drove a Star Chief with Tri-Power... The Star Chief was a 4 door, and StepDad liked the throttle response on the Tri-Power... so he bought that. For the next couple of years, the only car in town that could keep up, indeed would edge it out by about half a car length in the 1/4 - what that F.I. Bonneville... (that 2 door coupe was lighter than the Star Chief). I'd still love to have another 61 Pontiac Bonneville.... that was the car he traded the 58 in on... By then I had my first car - a 57 Star Chief Convert... Wow those were the days... FWIW, Carl B.

You just have to keep ordering and buying them, until you get the right size! You should receive an e-mail order confirmation with a request for SIZE from DHM... my bad:stupid: thanks Wes Carl B.

Hi Steve: Numbers match. Its Number 486... my bad.. Interior - needs replacement... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Gang: Anyone looking for a 69 production year 240-Z? #485 with an 11/69 build date. Second owner, where the first was the Datsun Dealer. Looks rough, but might be in good enough shape to save. Anyone near Napa, California that could go inspect the usual rust area's? Not running nor started for years, reported with 37K miles and all documents from second lady owner.. Asking price of $5,200.00 seems in the ball park for an 11/ 69 Z. PM me if you are a potential buyer. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Mike: I just checked them all - and they connect me to Pay Pal and ask for my login... Maybe a few others can try - you don't have to complete the transaction, just to see of the "DONATE" buttons connect you to the Secure PayPal page that says DATSUN HERITAGE MUSEUM. thanks for the report... Carl B.

Hi Gang: Time to update this thread: The Datsun Heritage Museum's Grand Opening approaches... Time to finalize your plans to attend !! Nissan Motors will be represented at the event by the head of the West Coast Sales Division. Gayle Brock and Mike Sage have jointed the DHM Board of Directors. I think we all know that Gayle is Peter Brock's wife and head of BRE2.com . Mike Sage's father was one of the very early Datsun Dealers and today his family owns the Sage Auto Group. (Universal City, Glendale and West Covina Nissan, West Covina Toyota, M/B of Valencia, Glendale Infiniti, West Covina Scion) Mike is a real 240-Z enthusiast. We have been working on the Datsun Heritage Museum's web site. Much credit and thanks to Will Stokes for getting this rolling. You can now make your tax deductible contributions via PayPal (and thus via VISA/MC/Discover ) via the DHM Store.. and receive the specified "thank-you" gifts while supplies last. http://DatsunHeritageMuseum.com There is a little more information about the DHM, the members of the Board of Directors etc there now - with lots and lots more to come. So at this point I'd say that the Web Site is about 1% complete... but we plan on it being the virtual extension to the physical building. Several of the idea's expressed in this thread are being worked on... FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Arne: Just FYI - If you check the Mobil 1 site - you will find that they have certain types and weights of Moble 1 that do contain the necessary ZDDP additives... Carl B.

I don't know - I don't have both types to compare. I know the one's from Classic Datsun are as original and good quality... FWIW, Carl B.