Carl Beck

The 73 is now at $17K.... FWIW, Carl B.

Several thoughts come to mind. 1. I love the blue...but the repaint looks about four shades too light from the original 901. 2. I wonder just how good that repaint was - what is the actual quality of the job? You'd have to see it in person. (over-spray on the front tow hook is not encouraging however -it should have been either mask off, or removed - and the seller provides no pictures of the front of the undercarriage... humm). 3. I wonder just how many hours the owner or previous owner spent detailing the car. The engine compartment looks amazingly clean and has no doubt been "refreshed". Likewise - the chrome strips on the doors... 4. The undercarriage looks like it was subjected to the usual Dealer Installed Undercoating.. but it also looks like they did an exceptionally neat job. I think it was very "well bought" - on the other hand how much do you pay today for a very clean #3 condition car? I think top money for me would have been $18K. Get much past that and you might as well go for a #2 condition car. On the other hand, if you paid $18K for one out of the West Coast, it would cost you another $2K to get is shipped to the East Coast.... Given the present economy I'd say that both the Buyer and Seller did OK... maybe the buyer got a good deal, but that's what it takes today to sell in that market segment... <pre> Based Strictly On The Pictures Provided: A #2 Condition Car This #3 Condition Car D-Hub Caps Wrong hub caps - $500.00 to $1000.00 Correct Yellow Cad. Parts Dulled gray items -$1500.00 to $2,500.00 High quality paint good quality job - $6,000.00+ Stock Outside Rear View Mirror Datsun Racing Mirrors - $500.00 Stock Bumpers/Rubbers Dealer Front Bumper Bar -$250.00 Things like that are what make some of the difference between a #2 and #3 car. </pre> Notes: No close-up / detailed pictures of the rear deck threshold plate. No close-up /detailed pictures of the rear wheel arches and dog-legs Over-spray on the front tow hook (questions about the quality of the repaint) If I wanted a Blue/Blue 71 - If the car is as represented - I wouldn't be afraid to pay $18K to $20K if I had too. Of course I'd rather start out at $16K and leave a little room to correct any minor flaws that bugged me.... From the sellers perspective - $16K today is better than a "hoped for" $18K next month or next year. BTW - 5 years ago, this would have been a $4,500.00 to $6,500.00 240-Z. FWIW, Carl B.

and we wonder why all our skilled labor jobs are going out the country..

Hi Adam: Good to see you here. I don't think anyone was offended, we're big boys and if we feel offended we can act like little boys in a hurry. So far everyone has been pretty civil. "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished." As discussed in a previous Post - that word "original", like many others, is defined in the minds of different buyers, to mean different things. When everyone is being perfectly honest in their use of the term, we all have to realize that there can be a wide gap in the mental images two different types of buyers can form in their minds. Clear detailed pictures help to reduce that gap between mental images in different people's minds mentioned above. In todays world of digital communications, dirt cheap high quality digital cameras, and the ability to easily share those images with a million or more people - they are simply indispensable to good communications - IMHO. There are many free Photo Hosting Services on the Internet, where high resolution, very detailed images can be placed - then all you have to do is include the URL needed to display them on the World Wide Web. Spend the time up-front, publish the pictures on-line and then include the URL within any Ad. for the car - and anyone can avoid the situation you describe. When anyone is selling an item on a National, or indeed International basis - the above effort becomes critical to get serious buyers motivated to come in person, to inspect and possibly buy the car. Here again, I wasn't attempting to set my definition of "original", so much as to show how different types of buyers use the term, and how wide the gap in their various definitions can be. Every group of people that share a common interest seem to have their own vernacular and even then, there is always farther discussion about how members in that group are defining common terms. That is really a major advantage to "Discussion Forums" like this one. Just for those following the thread - most of us usually refer to a car like this as "an unmolested, low mileage and mostly stock example". We might also refer to it as a solid #3 condition car, ready to drive and enjoy on the weekends. Then we could all argue about those statements as well!! It's a hobby... I also want to remind everyone that this tread was started at the first of this year - and I believe all of us are now realizing that very clean, low mileage, stock and mostly original, unmolested examples have gained in value this year - as they become ever harder to find. I also believe that most of us realize the location of the car has a direct impact on its selling price - Z's on the West Coast sell for thousands less, than Z's in the North East, or indeed East of the Mississippi. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Doug: As you can see in the attached picture of the 73 - this car did have the Dealer Emission Modifications completed. The mechanics marked different area's as various levels of the Modifications Plus Program was completed on each car. So this car could have had the splash pan installed by the Dealer. Likewise we can look at the Fuse Box and see if the car has the Dealer Installed electric fuel pump wire/fuse holder, or if it had the Factory Installed items. I doubt that the owner let the car sit outside -but I do not doubt it sat in a non-dehumidified, non-air conditioned garage. Even with 6K miles, you can see that the thermo cycles and atmospher have taken their toll on the Yellow Cad. Plated parts. The braided hoses have also grayed with age. So then the next question is: Should the new owner spend the time to detail the engine compartment, have the Yellow Cad. Plating restored, redye the braided hoses etc.... or leave them all as is? I included a picture of a 78 engine compatment - from a car with less than 700 miles, that was stored properly in a dehumidified and air conditioned storage area, just as an exampe of how the Yellow Cad. parts etc. should look. FWIW, Carl B. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Tim: Thanks - I ordered a few extra Classic Motorsports Calanders from the on-line store. Found them listed under "Merchandise" in the Store.. FWIW, Carl B.

The Silver 73 is at $16K now... it's about half way there. This will be somewhat like the 63 Tempest that was at $96K a minute before the closing bid - - and in the last minute it hit ....what was it $226,000.00. We won't know what this car will bring, until the final bids come in at the last minute of the auction. astock/Jim, you are greatly underestimating the value of clear, detailed pictures of this car. Remote buyers have ONLY the pictures to base the value of the car on... Without complete photo documentation prospective buyers have to price in a lot of risk... and lower their upper limits greatly. If you can't post the pictures on E-Bay, post them here. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Mike: That is very encouraging indeed. Far better than paying $1400.00 for a NOS set!!! Did the company you delt with - explain the process they used? thanks for the update, Carl B.

Hi Arne: Chris reports 40300-E4200 as a 5.5" magnesium wheel for the PS30 Alan reports 40300-E4200 as a steel wheel in the HS30 Sports Option Catalog. Isn't that two different wheels for the same part number, rather than two different part numbers for the same wheel? 40300-E4600 seems to be consistantly reported as 5.5" steel. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Ron: I've been working on a couple of different Z Posters - just haven't had the time to devote to getting them done. I haven't seen what picture they used, but I'm sure it was one of Mr. Brock's. So I'll have to see if we can work something out on the Copyright... I bought a coply of Adobe Illustrator about six months ago, and I'm still trying to learn now to use it to layout a 2'x3' size print. It does so much, it's hard to figure out how to use it to do something simple!!

Hi James: Do you have any pictures of HS30 00352 that you can Post. Thanks, Carl B.

Hi Rob / everyone: Thanks !! Just today another friend called to see if I was aware of it, and of course I wasn't. I think Florida gets distribution last... When the article came out in the Sep. issue it seemed that everyone had it at least two weeks before it arrived here. So I'll be looking forward to seeing it. Mr. Brock spent about 4 1/2 hours shooting the photos and I was somewhat surprised the the editors used so many B&W pictures from 73, and only a few from the photo shoot. BRE has a color picture and a couple of B&W's from the Baja, of the Z in their archives at BRE2.net http://www.bre2.net/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=B&Category_Code=brearchivephotos240zs I "DROVE" the BRE Baja Z from Clearwater to Polk City, Florida weekend before last for the Roar & Soar.. about 70 miles each way. It was a blast to say the least. The reaction from the people on the road was pretty much the same. They would come up behind and stay there for a few seconds, then pull up along side and look the car over, then give a big smile and thumbs-up. I try to stay close to the speed limits as the car is a RED FLAG to cops, and I don't need the hassle of not having a rear bumper in place... other than that it is actually road legal. Given the fact that the last fill-up was at $10.20 per gallon, I don't drive it as much as I should. I also have a very hard time keeping with the speed limits.. this engine just sings at 7000 to 7500 RPMLOL FWIW, Carl B.

Cadmium and Zinc used for electroplating both produce a light gray color outcome. To get that Golden/Yellow color, they are bathed in a Yellow Chromate bath. You can find plating companies that will use Cadmium, but they are usually DoD/NASA subcontractors and the process is more expensive than using Zinc, because it is more expensive to get rid of the used chemicals. Cadmium offers about three times the durability of Zinc, left untreated both will oxidize - that is why they receive a Chromate/Dichromate bath after plating. If you tell most plating companies that you want Yellow Cad plating - they will respond that "yes they can do that". When you drill down to the actual details their story will change to "well Cad and Zinc produce the same results and we use Zinc. They look the same." The turth is they don't produce the same results. Zinc can be made to look very much like Cad. if the chromate bath is properly supervised, but it can't duplicate the durability of Cadmium. Parts in the engine compartment get thermo cycled and that accelerates the decay of the plating. Anyway, that's what the guys in the Materials Lab tell me, and that's what the owner of Clearwater Classic Chrome confirms. FWIW, Carl B.

Saying he has the splash pan "for" the car - is not the same as saying he has the splash pan "off" that car. I belleve the seller has or has had other 240-Z's. FWIW, Carl B.

Only about 12% of the 240-Z's sold in North America during 72/73 were A/T's. Add that to the mileage and you would have a pretty rare car. I think in this case the A/T would not have much of a negative effect. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Mike. Here in North America, the splash pans came on most of the early Series I cars, but not all. They seem to have been deleted from the standard build for this market sometime in 1970. They returned later in the 1973 Model Year... after they started having hot weather running problems. I don't recall seeing any TSB that specified and end date for them, although it was common to see TSB's that announced any production changes. FWIW, Carl B.

I have one of the roof racks - and I used to have a pop-up tent that mounted on top the Z The blue z for $5K looks like it might be a good deal.. FWIW, Carl B.

No. I'm saying that if you took your 73 back to the dealer when it was new, because it didn't run correctly - they had a series of modifications that they would perform on the car in an attempt to solve the problems. A couple of things they did, was to install electric fuel pumps and the splash pans along with radiator shrouds. They did lots of other modifications to the carb.'s, air cleaners etc. If everything prior failed the last resort was to cut a hole in the hood and mount a hood scoop. The hood scoop really didn't scoop air - so much as it let underhood hot air out. If you have an early 73 with a splash pan it was most likely installed by the Dealer under warranty. Likewise the electric fuel pump. With only 6K miles on the Silver car - I'm not surprised the owner didn't take it back to the Dealer - he wasn't driving it daily. FWIW. Carl B.

Yes, it is correct. Yes that is a shame. Wonder what caused it. Thats what it looks like. The early 73's did not come with splash pans. As I recall, it was only after the customer complaints about poor starting and running in hot weather that all the attempts to modify the US cars started. Cars produced much later finally started coming from the Factory with the splash pans and electric fuel pumps installed. I'd bet that siren is part of an alarm system. Looks like the original owner intended to keep the car. As I understand the story, he did keep it until he died. Then his widow sold it locally. Yes, it could use some careful cleanup. I don't know the car - but it would seem that the seller could provide the widow's name and contact information - if he is willing to. On the other hand, have you ever seen an original Datsun 240-Z with it's original 175HR14 tires still on the car? I haven't. I've never seen a lower mileage example either. If the Blue 71 with 66K miles is hitting the $14K mark already.. it will be interesting to see how the two finish at final bids. FWIW, Carl B.

Hi Gary: No - the OEM styled steel wheels were 14"x5" from 1972 model year through the end of the 260Z's in North America in 1974. I don't know about the 280Z's - but I haven't seen any OEM steel wheels that were more than 5" wide. FWIW, Carl B.

Price on the original steel rims seems to be a matter of where you are. Here in Florida a good set of 4 in the 14x4.5 size they might be $200.00. On the other hand if your looking for wheels stamped 10/69 they might be $400.00 to $600.00 FWIW, Carl B.

Rob's car...

Sold - went to Saudia.... I believe... Loaded in a Shipping container..

That looks like a Series II console. Series I consoles did not have a molded end brace - they used a metal brace epoxied to the console as I recall. The dimensions you give would be for a Series II fuse box access cover. What are the objects or holes next to the large hole for the cig. lighter in that ash tray? FWIW, Carl B.