HS30-H

For your part, you never ever seem to answer a straight question. You just rock off on your own, often non sequitur, stream-of-conciousness stuff as if you're talking to yourself. You ask questions that have already been answered - often in your own links - change direction and ignore points being made. Take a peep in the mirror occasionally. Here's the thing about your "reality", and SpeedRoo's pot-shotting. You two are picking fault in cars that are not part of the S30.World 'Masterpiece Collection', and which are not going to auction on BaT. You don't know which cars are part of that program, which cars are on their way to Group 44 nor which particular car is going to be auctioned starting on 23rd October. You've jumped the gun. S30.World has a museum collection in Buren, Holland (as you can see in the photo I posted above) and this includes cars that are 'survivor', unrestored, original paint cars as well as cars that have been partially refreshed. You will also see examples of cars from various European markets and - for example - the Portuguese 'Entreposto' variants which had a very particular specification for that market. Examples of these cars - and work carried out on them - are documented on the S30.World platform. They also have cars that are being restored to customers' specifications. *So, anybody seeking to pick holes in the 'Masterpiece Collection' cars might be well advised to make sure it's actually a 'Masterpiece Collection' car that they are picking holes in.* I've already said that, in my opinion, '100% factory correct' restoration is a logical impossibility. You may well contest the somewhat hyperbolic language used in the promotion, and I'd agree, but I've seen the cars in question and they are indeed excellent. I can see the effort that went into them and I've talked with the people involved. 100% is a fine target to set yourself and getting as close as is reasonably possible to that is fine achievement. I wouldn't put a percentage on the achieved level myself, but the cars are stunning and several people I highly respect - including a Nissan employee who was involved in the development of the cars in period - agree. By all means pick apart the first car when it comes to auction, when you can see the detail photos and - I should imagine - video provided. Group 44 should be ready to answer our queries and our curiosity. It would be nice if this was carried out for the love of the cars and for the greater good rather than for scoring points against someone who is motivated by 'my enemy's friend is my enemy'...

S30-series Z was designed to incorporate anti roll bars both front and rear. Therefore perhaps more interesting that initial North American market variants didn't get a rear bar. The 'Final Euro' variants of course had much more than just a rear bar in their upgraded specification to suit European road conditions and the perceived requirements of its drivers.

You've already quoted the names behind the business. Perhaps you don't read your own posts? "...just selling car parts..."

No. That would be simulation. See how this stuff works? You're already dancing with us on the head of that pin I mentioned. It's getting mighty crowded... Some level of scrutiny is fair, but I can't remember you drilling down into to any other commercial business and their work to this extent. The comment above just makes you look foolish and parochial. You're calling into question the skill of the people who performed work that is clearly to a high standard - visible to anybody who looks at the photos on the S30.World platform - let alone their bona fides? I think they have a right to be proud of the work they've done. Did it ever occur to you that there might be quite a lot happening in relation to these cars which has sailed majestically over your head while you weren't paying attention?

And...? What's your point? I experienced HLS30-00023 in the metal and it is certainly restored to immaculate original specification. It's one of the best restorations I have ever seen, if not the best. If the phrase 'original specification' is troubling you, I can't see why. The specification of the car is arguably the best representation of its original specification that it is possible to achieve for a running and driving legally-registered road car (and yes, it was driven some distance by several people on the day I saw it) rather than a static exhibit. We discussed tyres on the drive, but running it on the brand and type of tyres it sat on in 1969 would be impractical if not dangerous. It has modern fluids in it. Modern paint formulas, electroplating that's probably more environmentally friendly than those of late 1960s Japan. We could go on, couldn't we. And hence we arrive - dancing - on the head of that pin I mentioned... I wonder, what would you say about the car should you find yourself one day standing in front of it and next to the team who restored it? Somehow I don't think you'd be taking a wheel off to run your spectrograph over the front brake calipers. On the other hand, maybe you really would be that guy. At this point I should remind you that HLS30-00023 is not the car that is going to auction on October 23rd. For me, it was a great privilege to experience it in the metal, running and driving. You on the other hand are looking at photos.

Why?

How have I "missed" anything? I haven't made any claim about that car and I didn't build it. It was nothing - literally nothing - to do with me. You've gone off half-cocked. As above, I have not made any claim about these cars. And who is this "mate" that you refer to? You seem to have made some assumptions that are more arse than umption. I asked you who were the "so called experts" you were referring to, and answer was there none. So I'm not very hopeful, but there it is. I'm getting the feeling that you are confusing the messenger with the message. Again. Did you also miss my mention that a healthy dose of pragmatism goes a long way when getting involved in the restoration and refurbishment of these cars? The mere fact that a car is 'restored' will naturally mean that it is no longer original or factory correct. Rivet counting and nitpicking from the Peanut Gallery is fine up to a point (I partake as much as anyone else) but taking it all the way to its logical conclusion we all end up dancing on the head of a pin. Even the record-setting green car on BaT had plenty of non-originality on show. How far do you want to take it? 1970 air in the tyres? Perhaps it might be worth reminding ourselves that the term 'Factory Correct' is a fine intention, but a logical impossibility if taken literally. Personally I'd tend to take it as more of a statement of faithful but necessarily pragmatic target-setting. There will no doubt be plenty of shots at point-scoring on the BaT auction, which is par for the course and fair enough. And people who take sales patter a little too seriously might like to pop back to 1969 to remind themselves that these cars have had hyperbolic statements attached to them from Day One. Personally, I'd say - with English understatement hopefully detected - that these cars are pretty good. But by all means, show me better.

For example? Let's discuss it. Fire away. Maybe we can all learn something. Aha! Too shiny! Perhaps they should have used (illegal) early 1970s Alkyd Enamel paint. You have a ready supply I presume? No 'Cad' plating? Tut tut. One thing that was required (I reckon) was a healthy dose of pragmatism. And it's one thing to know how a certain car is supposed to be, and another to make it so. There are plenty who don't know the former, so have no chance of achieving the latter. You will of course be sympathetic to this situation, having been there yourself... Right? This has been noted previously. You're giving it a pretty good go though, so more power to you. Who are the "so called experts" you are referring to, and exactly what role have they had in the restoration of the cars? Inquisitive minds would like to know.

This has been discussed on other forums, and my personal take is that there can be no such thing as a 'replacement bodyshell' for these cars. Replacing the bodyshell is replacing the car. There's no continuity. It would make a whole new thing.

Today, the first official announcement of the S30.world 'The Masterpieces Collection' sales, to begin on 23rd October: S30.worldS30.world - The Masterpieces programThe Masterpieces program Garage 44 of Annville, Pennsylvania will be coordinating sales in the USA.

You might be skating on slightly thin ice if you reckon it would have had a 'Nissan 2000 OHC' valve cover when it left the factory.

Agreed. And - quite clearly - the vendor knows little to nothing about the car, as shown in the listing and his comments through the auction process. He wasn't even aware that the chassis number is engraved on the firewall, so no surprise that he didn't know the differences between a Z-S and a Z-L of this vintage nor the somewhat personalised/custom nature of the particular car he was selling.

A silly comment from the peanut gallery. You seem to be taking it perhaps a little too seriously.

Welcome! Here, have a photo of Pierre as a tip of the hat. You spoke well of him, as have many others:

Nonsense! When people talk about 'Cad plating' on Z cars they did not form that habit through experience based on 1964 Nissan Cedric sedans. It's simply a habit they picked up from a vernacular formed in the American car scene. Show me ONE, just ONE period official document from Nissan Japan that proves Cadmium electroplating was used on the S30-series Z. Pretty please. Pretty please with bells and bows on. I'm all eyes and ears. No AI-generated garbage, just primary source, simple proof. Preferably in the manufacturer's native language. I'll buy you an AI-generated virtual double whisky to drink while you watch me eat my hat. At some point I'm hopeful that the penny will actually drop and you'll understand that we are discussing TWO different scenarios here. Yes, the title of the thread is the VZ Restoration Program cars and the digression onto 'Cad' plating came about because 'Cad' plating was mentioned on the work lists - and in press reports - of the VZ Program cars, despite - I contend - not being used on the cars when they were originally built in the 1969 thru 1973 period. Some insist 'Cad' was used originally, I say not. Nissan Japan says not too. That's it. Original manufacturing vs VZ Program re-manufacturing. I'm not disputing what was actually used on the VZ cars because I understand that they were a different situation altogether to their original manufacture. See? Which particular "possible reality" of yours is it this time? I had beef as the main dish in my evening meal earlier. I guess I ought to face up to the "possible reality" that it might in fact have been cardboard, cleverly disguised as beef. If so, whoever responsible did a pretty good job I can tell you. The labelling was very convincing too. Every time you repeat your "piece of paper" dissing of official, period, Nissan Japan-sourced data sheets - published for many models and variants over the period discussed (I've quoted no less than 14 different models covering 1966 thru 1972, but could easily quote more) - you lose more credibility. If anyone actually agrees with your outright dismissal of the Nissan Engineering Standard system and Nissan's own publications then I invite them to show their hands here. YES! Have you just noticed...!? It's what really happened in the early Seventies - not the mid Nineties - that is the bone of contention. NO! (Argh!). I have no idea what the VZ Program professionals knew or understood about the plating on the cars.