260z Samuri Conversion in Australia For Sale

[240 in OZ]

Guys

Havent seen this one posted as yet:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2926438792&category=2030

Whats everyones take on this one?

Regards

Joseph

[Alfadog]

My take on this is that this is a very old photo

Sorry for my ignorance but what exactly was so special about the samuris? (i know, i know, shame on me)

[Zedrally]

This is probably one of those questions that Alan could chip in on.

All that I know of the Samuri is that it was a UK conversion? of a 240. Someone made mention of it in a thread last year but if that's the photo of the car in question, then it isn't doing it any justice at all.

[HS30-H]

Originally posted by Alfadog

Sorry for my ignorance but what exactly was so special about the samuris? (i know, i know, shame on me)

No shame Alfadog,

There's really not very much that's special about 99% of the so-called "Samuri" conversions that you will come across.

Most of them consisted of a bit of porting on the head ( in many cases just matching the inlet and exhaust ports to their manifolds ) maybe a set of carbs, and an exhaust system ( often Janspeed, but sometimes GDS ). Not all of them came with the "special" paint job either.

Frankly, I'm not a believer in the hype about the Samuri Conversions legend. They were the most prominent of the few tuning companies in the UK that were messing about with the Z back in the mid Seventies to late Eighties period, but that's not saying much.

For some reason they got a reputation in the UK-based Z scene for being demon tuners, but this was largely based on the image that their race cars made for them. BIG SAM was indeed a fast car ( and still is ) - but was based on a Works rally bodyshell, and is considerably stiffer than the stock shell. Its on its second Works shell now, and still comes out occasionally - but there is very little of the original ( Samuri prepped ) spec. remaining. Most of the work that you see on the car now was performed by Tim Riley, and is quite different to when it was raced in the mid Seventies.

Most of the road-spec. Samuri cars disappeared many years ago, and what is left now seems to be pretty iffy stuff. Its very hard to prove that a car purporting to be a Samuri actually IS one ( supposing that you would WANT to prove that it is ) as they were never properly logged of identified by Samuri.

The UK-based Z owners clubs both have a separate 'class' for Samuri versions, as do some of the UK price-guides in the classic car magazines. I have never been able to get my head around this. The cars are still 99% Nissan, and a bit of porting and a two tone paint job don't make them special in my book............

There are LOTS of funny ( and not so funny ) stories about the activities of Samuri, and their somewhat hit and miss approach to business. One of my favourites came from a chap who took his 260Z to Samuri for a ported cylinder head and exhaust conversion. He made the mistake of turning up a day early to collect his car, only to find the Samuri proprietor with his backside in the air, cigarette in mouth, leaning into the engine bay with die-grinder in hand, merrily grinding away at the inlet and exhaust ports. The head was still on the engine, and he had stuffed toilet roll down the ports to stop the swarf falling past the valves!

The owner said that the car went quite well afterwards, but he could not get the image of all that aluminium dust flying around out of his mind..............

Joseph, are you SURE you want a Samuri? You could do a much better job yourself you know.

Alan T.

( opinions expressed are my own personal bias and prejudice, and do not necessarily correspond with those of classiczcars.com:bunny:)

[philUK]

I very much agree with Alan ..as I ranted about in the thread

here: rant thread

When I first decided I wanted a modifed 240z I was blinded by the press and clubs and thought that what I wanted was a samuri. I actually nearly bought one, but after I looked into it I found as Alan said, that there really wasn't that much special about them apart from the 'special' paint scheme . I ended up buying a similar spec DJ road & race built car (2.8 port job, GDS exhaust etc. etc.) which went just as well and saved about 1k or more. There was still no section for me at the yearly UK show, since there was only a 'samuri' section, and no modifed... V frustrating...

who knows what section my new car will be in with its 1jz engine!!

[Caen Fred]

DJ road and race, yes Dave IS the Z master, over there in the old lands... I have a samuri spoiler on my car, the only really good genuine part...

[Alfadog]

Hmmph...

well I'm getting pictures sent to me frmo the owner of this car next week, I'll post some pictures for those who are interested.

I knew you didn't really approve of the Samuris Alan, but now I know why doesn't sound too great - but you have to admit it's a pretty cool name.

Does anyone have a different view of the Samuris?

[HS30-H]

Phil,

I'm glad you concur. That makes just two of us here in the UK that don't believe the hype...........

That Samuri legend is a really hard thing to kick back against, as everyone in the UK seems to connect the early Z to the Samuri name. Last time out in my ZG I was filling up at a petrol station and got asked the Samuri question ( you know the drill - "Is it a genuine Samuri?" ). No it bloody well isn't!

I've seen some really nasty work on some of the cars that *purport* to be Samuri conversions ( there's lots of fakes out there, or just stuff that is mistaken for being Samuri ). Some of the intake manifolds and linkages can be laughable; differing lengths of linkage to each carb and even three different series of Weber on one manifold. The mind boggles.

You are going to have merry fun if you expect your car to fit in to any category at a car show. I would not worry too much about it if I were you. You can't really expect the judges to know too much about what they are looking at.

Mind you, I got an unexpected award once just for parking up at a show. A car club for a different type of car gave my car their "Your Car Is Cool" award - which I was quite chuffed about. I don't go to many shows now. I prefer to see the cars moving and not static, or at least mixed up with other different types and marques. Leads to much more interesting conversation.

Fred!

Sean's coming to see me on his way back from visiting Dave Jarman next Wednesday. He'll be bringing some stuff back for you, as long as he doesn't get lost! ( I have to make a good map for him ). He tells me he's originally from south London. Usually we don't let those foreigners over this side of the river:bunny: I hope hope he'll be carrying his passport.........

Alan T.

[240 in OZ]

Alan T.

No, I have no interest in buying this car or any Samuri conversion. I just wanted to post the ebay auction to the discussion board as an interesting discussion topic.

Joseph

[Zedrally]

So the conversion wasn't just performed on 240's. It was available on 260's as well. If it was all un-documented then it would be interesting how the seller of that car can prove it's providence?

arse facing the air, cigarette in mouth. Sounds pretty much like the guy who invented the sand blasting method of polish/porting heads in situ! ROFL

[Trex]

Well Alan T, it is a shame that you obviously havent met Spike Anderson the man behind Samuri. Samuri is not a hype and your secondhand stories do not do him any justice but then again you have a right to your opinion and it should stop there before the story telling starts. Whatever second hand knowledge you have of the man and his work doesnt allow you to tell stories. Maybe you should have a chat with Win Percy.

Not everyone is lucky enough to come across a HS30-H chassis number and that should not put you in a position to comment unfavourably of people who made a difference with the HS30 chassis to better performance then the HS30-H. Port and polishing like how Spike explains it is a black art. Everybody thinks they know about it. To be little Spike's work in head porting is unnecessary.

I have spent memorable times at his workshop in Silverstone and he was a true enthusiast of the 240Z's. I have also met Tim Riley as well and both of them deserve the recognition for the work they have done on the 240Z in motorsports.

I am not British or anti-British or belong to classiczcars.com. I have met Spike and know where he comes from. Your personal bias and prejudice from your ivory ZG tower should remain that way and this should not warrant you to tell stories. You do a better job as a 240ZG historian.

God forgives those that do not know any better and I hope that Spike will forgive you for your comments and story telling.

[HS30-H]

Well Trex,

I'm sorry that you seem to have missed my caveat about 'opinions expressed....' at the bottom of my post. I'm also sorry that my opinion is not a reflection of the truth as you see it, but surely you can't expect everybody to think the same way as you?

What makes you think that I have not met Spike Anderson, and what makes you think that I would have a different opinion about the Samuri hype of the UK-based Z scene after having met the man behind the company? There are many stories about Spike being a 'loveable rogue' and a bit of a scamp, and I hear plenty of kind words about him as a person. I told a little story about Samuri, and there are plenty more - but I don't think they are all bad or all good.

You also seem to think that I have not met Win Percy, but I have. Win has his own opinion, but he would wouldn't he? Nothing wrong with that.

Presumably you have your own story to tell - so go ahead and tell it. That's what this kind of site is all about. Surely you can't expect everybody to agree with you? I don't expect everyone to agree with me ( and they evidently don't! ).

My own car would seem to have little to do with the Samuri topic, but you seem to think it does. I can't see why you think I am "lucky" to come across an HS30-H ( luck had very little to do with it, and my car had several owners before me ) and you seem to be trying to bring that model type into the discussion in some kind of competition against the HS30. I don't see the relevance of this. They both had identical mechanical specification. Please also note that the 'H' suffix in the Factory code for the ZG does not appear in the VIN / Chassis number.

I'm glad that you mentioned Tim Riley. Tim recently emigrated to New Zealand, and will be sadly missed from the Z scene here in the UK. In my opinion, Tim's work was vastly underrated. He put an awful lot of time and thought into Big Sam, but when it goes well now Samuri get all the plaudits. That's an injustice, and it's just the kind of thing that I kick back against. The scene here in the UK is such a blinkered one that people like Tim don't get the credit they deserve, but the Samuri name seems to get more than its fair share.

I don't quite know what you mean by "ivory ZG tower" - but it would seem to reflect your own personal bias and prejudice, to which you are entitled just like I am. If I did not own ANY car, would this make my opinion any less valid? I can't see how my car has anything to do with this thread. I also have not set myself up as some kind of historian, but If you see my posts in this way then that's up to you.

I should not think that Spike will worry too much about having to 'forgive' me or not. The Samuri legend is well established in the UK, and has spread to other parts of the world too. If you want to post some information regarding the Samuri conversion cars, then please go ahead ( that's what the original post was requesting ).

Differences of opinion are healthy, and there's nothing wrong with discussion without confrontation. Keeping it all interesting and good natured is the 'black art' - not cylinder head porting.

Best wishes,

Alan T.:classic:

[St.stephen]

Alan very well said!

On another unrelated note, how much are miura's and 246 Dino's going for in the UK and how rare and what condition are they mostly in?

[St.stephen]

ebay uk

[HS30-H]

St.stephen,

Thanks for the support.

Here's what the UK price guides say:

*Datsun 240Z = ~ 8,500

*Datsun 260Z = ~ 7,250

*Ferrari Dino 246GT = ~ 55,000

*Lamborghini Miura = ~ 70,000

Those prices are in Pounds Sterling, and for "Condition 1" cars.

Must say that the really good stuff seems to go for more than that over here - so the price guides are a bit conservative. Condition is ALL when it comes to the top money though.

The really best Creme-de-la-Kremlin stuff seems to change hands for top money and never gets advertised.

All the best,

Alan T.

[St.stephen]

alan, thanks so much for the info. The 246 and the miura have always been a dream of mine so I have been pricing the reality of that dream and until I hit the lotto looks like that is all it;s going to be.

This gentleman in CA miura resto bought a miura back in 1980 something and still has yet to finish it. He also has a uracco that he is going to be selling to help fund the project. Great site with lots of info. He is currently restoring the car with some SV upgrades. Both the 246 and the miura are to me two of the most gorgeous vehicles ever built. maybe some day I'll get my hands on one before I take my last breath on this earth :classic:

[Alfadog]

Ah, great to see another view Trex! Personally, I always appreciate a conflict of beliefs as it gives the rest of us who don't know as much about the topic both sides of the story. I would like to hear what you have to say about the Samuri name. But like Alan said I dont think the car he owns has anything to do with the topic.

Oh and st. stephen, do yourself a favour and spend the extra 15,000 pounds and get a Miura! Like you, my dream car is a Miura. :love: I bet you watched the intro to 'The Italian Job' as many times as I did too

[Trex]

Alan T, it never amazes me the amount of information you have on the Z even more so with the contacts you have established in Japan with people who eat and breath 240z's.

Hence in the forum your views and opinions have always been highly regarded. I have always looked highly upon your replies and opinions from your puristic point of view.

You must know from the various feedback and replies to the forum that you have a following of people in the forum who respect your views and comments, right or wrong personal or not. This in a way whether intentional or otherwise gives you automatic membership into the list of 'gurus' on this forum.

To this end even though you have a right to express your opinion on this forum, personal views and judgements on Samuri may do more damage than just being a personal opinion.

Imagine Mike giving his personal views on BRE negatively.

For those who are mature enough to process these views and information it does not pose an issue. For those who are not so mature and easily influence, then the mob mentality prevails and someone will suffer. The end result being that there will always be a victim when the lynch mob arrives.

Hence my defence for Samuri and the work with which Spike has done to earn him a place in the 240z history in UK. Samuri is a legend and there is a following who prescribes to it. The word 'hype' as used just reflects the discontentment or negative feeling towards Samuri for one reason or another.

I suppose its easier to throw abuse as a spectator, at the boxer in the fighting ring then to be the boxer in the fighting ring.

It was once written, what John Cooper did for the Mini in UK, Spike Anderson did the same for the 240Z in UK and Peter Brock ( BRE) for US.

A Samuri fan ( who is not British ). Keep up the good work Alan.

Best regards from this part of the world.

[Gav240z]

http://zhome.com/History/BigSam.htm

here's an article on Big Sam :classic: .

[sjcurtis]

I agree with the Deftly Daft one it is good to see we have more than one opinion on a subject, and debate lives.

I think we should reframe from public flaying of the individual and keep it all above the plimsoll line.

When flaying is on the menu though, at least give the rest of the Turkeys enough credit to strip back the crackling for themselves.

As for Samuri, a very interesting subject.

My 2c

Steve.

[Alfadog]

I got some pictures, looks like the engine is pretty darn stock..................

And the ride height doesn't look too different to stock either.. definite signs that it used to have a special paint job though...

[Alfadog]

engine from the left

[Alfadog]

engine from the right

[Alfadog]

the rear of the car

[Alfadog]

is this photo meant to be showing anything?