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Hardway

Hardway's Red Rocket 1972 240z Build Thread

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4 hours ago, Hardway said:

Okay, after reading the post that Philip provided you guys have convinced me to take the carb off and take a closer look at the throttle plate.  I do not want to risk any damage the bores in the carb body.  Tonight I will attempt to fill the hole and smooth out the outer edge.  Seems do-able with some rosin flux and solder.

i think that is a good idea. brass solders fairly easy

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Well I wouldn't necessarily give up on the replacement and go back to trying to fix the old drilled one. My biggest issue with the replacement is the burrs. I'm worried that they will gouge the aluminum casting inside the carb throat. But it's not hard to fix. You should be able to dress the burrs off easily with a piece of sandpaper on a hard surface. Couple swipes and they should be cleaned off. Just make sure you don't get too aggressive and remove good material. Keep the corners sharp, but not burred.

The rest of the workmanship stuff is annoying, but won't affect performance. Except......

Have you verified that the edges are bevel cut and not straight cut? Can you see the bevel on the original plate?

ThrottlePlate04.jpg

Edited by Captain Obvious
Attached pic highlighting burrs

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Per everyone's input and suggestion I took a stab at filling the hole in the old throttle plate.  Using my soldering iron and some rosin flux paste I let it really cook in the crevice the hole.  With it still hot I added solder to it.  Once everything cooled I started sanding the solder down with some 600 grit sand paper.  I followed the up some 1000 grit and then some super fine 0000 steel wool to clean up the plate.  The surface is super smooth despite the visible scratches.  I paid attention to maintain the taper of the edge of the throttle plate so that I only flattened the solder and did not disrupt the angle of the taper.  All in all it came out better than expected.  I really kick myself for not doing this first as it would have saved me $15 and 2 weeks of time.  Oh well, need to take more changes in life!

ThrottlePlate06.jpg

ThrottlePlate07.jpg

I swapped out the throttle plates and after studying the new one some more I could see the taper on the edge was not as steep as the taper on the original.  I checked the bore for any grooves and could not see or feel any.  With everything re-installed and buttoned up I fired the engine back up and at idle I am getting a solid 5 on my sync-meter across all six bores.  Throttle response all seemed the same as before but I rest easier knowing the right part is in the carb.

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2 minutes ago, 240260280 said:

Way to go!  You da man!

Thank you Philip!  Unfortunately the hits keep coming with the Red Rocket.  I decided to do a valve adjustment since they were tapping pretty good on the last test drive.  Some of the locking nuts were so tight I had to use a cheater bar to break them loose.  Thankfully they all saw things my way and everything went in to spec.  It is a stock cam so I set it stock specs. 

ValveAdj01.jpg

As I was turning the motor over by hand I kept hearing this tap but couldn't figure it out at first.  Then out of the corner of my eye I saw the timing chain tap the inside of the head.  I almost thought I was seeing things but my fear was realized when I moved it with my hand.  It is stretched for sure and warrants a replacement sooner than later.  Luckily I have a new chain kit in the box and all the gaskets already from the lime green Z when I thought about doing it on that one.  I will pull the engine to do it as I would like to clean everything up, possibly paint the engine bay, and inspect the clutch.  For now, here is a video.  Feel free to weep with me.

 

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With the valve adjustment done I turned my attention to the driver side door.  With the rebuilt hinges the action of the door was much more solid but in order to close it required slamming it hard as I could.  Knowing the new weather stripping was a bit big I removed it to ensure the door was aligned properly.  With the weatherstripping off the door closed like butter, effortlessly latched, and opened with almost elegant satisfying sound you expect and want in any vehicle.  Since the door was spot on I took a risk and cut the bottom third of the weatherstrip off along the lower half of the door opening.  This helped a lot as now the door only required a good push to close all the way.  However this is not what I want to have to do to close the door every time so I am looking at the Kia Sportege seals and taking a long look at the McMaster-Carr weatherstripping.  There is already another recent thread on this topic and I will be following it as well.

CutWS.jpg  

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Would some or all of that slack not be taken up by the oil pressure moving the chain adjuster????

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As previously mentioned one of my horns was not working properly and I have purchased a restoration kit for them.  I want to get the car on the road as soon as possible so I decided to run some after market horns for now.  After some research and YouTube comparison videos I settled on some Hella Sharp Tone horns for $27.99 shipped off eBay.  Don't let the name fool you, they sound like modern loud vehicle horns.  They come with yellow cages on the front which would make them stick out from the rest of the car so a color change was in order.  After a once over with some steel wool to knock the shine off the paint I put two light coats of satin black on them.  Painting conditions were not ideal this weekend and but they look much better and on the car you don't really notice them, which is the point.  With the horn button pressed everyone in the immediate area will take notice!   

HellaHorns01.jpg

HellaHorns02.jpg

HellaHorns03.jpg

HellaHorns04.jpg

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I worked on other stuff too but it was not really picture worthy.  This included installing some used door panels that did not have any speaker holes cut in them.  With the door panels off the doors were vacuumed out, lock and latch mechanisms lubed, and the window tracks were greased.  I installed some new side mirrors and adjusted the rear brakes shoes as they were a little too tight.  I did get to drive the car on a short shake down run and it performed very well.  I love the sound of the triple Dellortos, the transmission shifted very nicely with the new fluid, and everything seemed to be humming along quite well.  I did notice the car tracking to the right a little and as I drove it some more it only got worse and I could smell brake material.  Once I was home and the Z back on the lift I confirmed the right caliper was sticking.  I am picking up a new/rebuilt caliper and hose tomorrow so that should be resolved tomorrow night.  With the carbs running so good I put the air filters back on them which is 30 minute job due to their design and limited space.  All in all, a very productive weekend!  The final Cars and Coffee at the Oasis is next weekend and I plan to be there even if I have to tow the Z up there.  Hopefully it won't come to that as I am really looking forward to making some runs down the toll way in it.  Stay tuned! 

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There is always a lot of Datsun "spirit" in your posts.  Motivating like watching car restoration TV programs.

 

For the chain slop, are you turning CW at the crank (ref. standing in front of car)?  Usually the left side (ref. driver) has tension all the time when turning and when stopped so it will not flap that much until lifting pedal at high revs. The tensioner on the other side usually takes up the slop after the oil pressure is up so the slop will be less on the road... but as you say it does look like a lot of slop regardless. 

You can have a look for stretch by using the triangle cam sprocket markers at TDC.

Check the inside of the valve cover above the chain to see if it left you any gifts.

 

Maybe do a compression test too while you have the engine in the car before pulling it.  You may want to do more when it is out :)

Edited by 240260280

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11 hours ago, Patcon said:

Would some or all of that slack not be taken up by the oil pressure moving the chain adjuster????

Not sure to be honest.  It is a lot of slack and the tensioner only provides so much pressure due to how much travel is allowed.

4 hours ago, 240260280 said:

There is always a lot of Datsun "spirit" in your posts.  Motivating like watching car restoration TV programs.

For the chain slop, are you turning CW at the crank (ref. standing in front of car)?  Usually the left side (ref. driver) has tension all the time when turning and when stopped so it will not flap that much until lifting pedal at high revs. The tensioner on the other side usually takes up the slop after the oil pressure is up so the slop will be less on the road... but as you say it does look like a lot of slop regardless. 

You can have a look for stretch by using the triangle cam sprocket markers at TDC.

Check the inside of the valve cover above the chain to see if it left you any gifts.

Maybe do a compression test too while you have the engine in the car before pulling it.  You may want to do more when it is out :)

Thank you Philip!  I like doing the work and documenting it for many reasons as I am inspired by the many other build threads on here and around the net.

You are correct, I am turning the engine clock wise and the chain would have slack when the engine rotated counter-clock wise as it backed off the rotation due to compression.  I didn't even think to look inside the valve cover.  Amazing what slips in your mind when you are "in the zone"  Next time I have it off I will take a look.  I inspected the valve train and everything looked good, no spare parts were sitting the valley of the head.

Good point on the compression check.  I already know pulling the motor will be a slippery slope as I would like to do a cam upgrade that would really take advantage of the carbs.  I also have the original engine to the car along with all the complete dual SU carb setup and air cleaner.  It needs a little work but I may try to get that engine running first before pulling the current engine.

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13 hours ago, Hardway said:

I swapped out the throttle plates and after studying the new one some more I could see the taper on the edge was not as steep as the taper on the original.

The work you did on the throttle plate looks great. Well done!

So you think the edge taper angle on the replacement was different than the original?  Workmanship...    :finger:

Glad you went back to the original.

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14 hours ago, Hardway said:

Thank you Philip!  Unfortunately the hits keep coming with the Red Rocket.  I decided to do a valve adjustment since they were tapping pretty good on the last test drive.  Some of the locking nuts were so tight I had to use a cheater bar to break them loose.  Thankfully they all saw things my way and everything went in to spec.  It is a stock cam so I set it stock specs. 

ValveAdj01.jpg

As I was turning the motor over by hand I kept hearing this tap but couldn't figure it out at first.  Then out of the corner of my eye I saw the timing chain tap the inside of the head.  I almost thought I was seeing things but my fear was realized when I moved it with my hand.  It is stretched for sure and warrants a replacement sooner than later.  Luckily I have a new chain kit in the box and all the gaskets already from the lime green Z when I thought about doing it on that one.  I will pull the engine to do it as I would like to clean everything up, possibly paint the engine bay, and inspect the clutch.  For now, here is a video.  Feel free to weep with me.

When you replace the timing chain, I'll strongly recommend new bolts for the front timing cover / water pump.

I had that cover on and off 3 or 4 times when I rebuilt my engine last year because I broke a water pump bolt, then after removing it, cleaning it all up, and removing the broken bolt, I reassembled and broke one of the timing cover bolts. Just buy a new bolt kit and save yourself the headache and cursing!

I also ended up putting heliacoil inserts in each of the 4 holes on the bottom of the timing cover since 2 of them stripped out when I installed my oil pan (2 more times removing the front cover). 

I promise I was gentile throughout and hand threaded things in before trying to torque them to spec! I think Dad and I messed up those threads 20+ years ago when we last replaced the timing chain.

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This evening was very productive.  I installed the new rebuilt caliper and hose after work.  The old components came off with little fuss and in the grand scheme of things they did not look bad.  I know the car has sat off and on for the past few years and either the caliper was sticking or the hose was swelled up inside creating a blockage.  I bought the caliper at O'Reilly auto parts for $29.99 and the hose was $17.99.  They were the only store that could get me a caliper in a day or two.  They are the same price on Amazon but I prefer to buy local when I can in the event I have an issue.  A friend of mine gave me a new set of pads so they were free.  When I took everything apart there were some nice stainless steel shims in between the pads and the pistons.  I have never seen this type of shim before but I took a few minutes with some fine steel wool to clean them up.  The before and after is night day.

Shims01.jpg

Shims02.jpg

Shims03.jpg

Everything was reassembled and lubed where it needed to be with some anti-seize.  Most people would have pulled the rotor and had it turned but despite how the rotor looks it was not grooved and I really did not want to mess with the bearings to pull it.

Brake01.jpg

Brake02.jpg

A quick bleed session confirmed everything was sealed up so the wheels went back on for a test drive.  The new caliper and hose did the trick as it tracked and stopped straight while driving it.  Tonight marked a major milestone for the car as it is now at a point where I feel confident taking it up to highway speeds and to this weekend's Cars and Coffee event.  Its been almost 3 months since I bought the car and many projects to get it here.  However, it has all been worth it as the car is a blast to drive!  The triple Dellortos, ZX 5spd w/Hurst shifter, the LSD, and full suspension make it a great car to toss around and wind out getting on to entrance ramps.  I drove it so much I had to stop and put some more gas in it.  Seemed like the perfect opportunity for a few photos!

HEB01.jpg

HEB02.jpg

HEB03.jpg

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Looking good,  where are you going with this one? Are you going to give it the full treatment like the last 240 or just a rip around car? A deep paint buff and it will be a real looker.

 

Edited by grannyknot
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Wow. That thing looks great. For three months of work and you've got something to that point already. That's fantastic.

BTW - Those anti-squeal shims look just like all the ones I've ever seen. You've never seen that style before? That's the only style I've ever seen. All my hands on experience is with 260s and later. Maybe that's a later design?

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I wanted to wait before getting mine buffed until I was through tinkering, then I realized I'll always be doing something to it so I went ahead and had the buff done.  I lost my incognito, now I'm driving an OSHA orange warning sign but I like it.

 

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Thank you for the compliments guys!  I would never put any Ferrari badges on it but I think a set Borrani spoke wheels would look killer!  Unfortunately a set probably cost more than what I paid for the car.  The wheels currently on the car are cool but they also date it somewhat to the 90's or early 2000's.  For now, I have no plans to replace them as they are in excellent condition and will polish up well.

That is interesting on the shims.  I honestly can't remember what my previous 240z's had in the way of brake shims but i do not remember them looking like that.  Might be later shims like you said.

My long term plans for the car are still TBD.  I don't see myself doing a restoration of any kind on it but at some point it will need a paint job.  Before that there is some rust that needs to be addressed in the rockers as well as the holes in the door that are currently covered by red duct tape (I mean speed tape)  Silver is the original color but the red is really growing on me.  Even on the short shakedown runs it turns heads at almost every stop light.  I am hoping some careful buffing and polishing will give me a year or so of life out of it.  My goal is to have a fun Z car to rip around in but also shows well at meets and informal shows.  I am certainly achieving the fun goal right now and that alone makes me very happy.

Moving in to 2018 the Z will receive a RT diff mount, new steering rack gators, headliner repair/replace, odds & ends, and a lot more cleaning.  I am going to try and source a better condition original front bumper and guards as I like the stock look but there is no rush on this.  I would also like to have the seats recovered in some black leather with some nice stitching and vents so they look more vintage.  The velour screams 1990 but in their defense the seats are super comfy and supportive.  If and when the engine comes out to address the sloppy timing chain I would like strip everything out and paint the engine bay as it is currently a mix of black, red, and silver.  And the list goes on and on.

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4 hours ago, Hardway said:

  I am hoping some careful buffing and polishing will give me a year or so of life out of it. 

after that year, it will be "patina"  it only adds to the value ;)

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Last Sunday I officially waived my personal banner of "Mission Accomplished" as I made it out to the final Cars and Coffee of 2017 in the Z.  The trip there and back was drama free and the Z got its own fair share of lookers.  It was great to hang out with Mike W. and our buddy Kyle McKenzie.  The previous owner of the car was there too and was happy to see it out, taking in all the work I had done, and being enjoyed by its new owner.  Once the sun came out it got packed fast with lots of foot traffic.  My apologies for the poor picture quality as it was nearly impossible to get a picture of our row without people passing by.  My goal for 2018 is to start using my DSLR with a glare hood to get better pictures.  For now, phase 1 is complete and I am making plans for phase 2.

CandC01.jpg

CandC04.jpg

Edited by Hardway
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Last night I resolved something that has bothered me ever since I started working in the engine bay... the absolute sorry state of the brake booster vacuum hose.  Every time I touched it or breathed hard near it, more of the deteriorating braided fabric would crumble off or leave some part of my skin or clothing dirty.  This is no surprise since it is the original hose and I am sure many others are dealing with the same issue. 

OldHose01.jpg

Leaning on the replacement hose experience that AZ-240z made me for my series-1 240z, I knew I could make a new one on my own.  I pulled out some solid copper wire I had laying around and straightened a 16" piece of it with my bench vise.

Copper01.jpg

I inserted the copper wire in to some 3/8 inch fuel vapor hose and started bending.  After about 10 minutes I was pretty happy with the overall shape. I left both ends a little long so I could trim them to fit once they were on the car.

NewHose01.jpg

I did the same for the smaller hose and used a piece of 4" copper wire at each end to accomplish the bends.  With the hoses on the car I did some trimming and adjusting so they fit right.  While I was at it I installed some freshly yellow zinc plated original style hose clamps to add a little bling.  The end result is not factory or restoration accurate but it is worlds better than what was on the car and fully functional.

NewHose02.jpg

NewHose03.jpg

A few things to note from my personal experience.  This was actually the second booster hose I made.  When I did the first I used 24 inches 1/4" copper tubing which is much easier to bend and I recommend it over the solid copper wire.  However, 24 inches was too much and I had no way to cut it down or push it out once I had formed the hose.  When pushing the copper in to the hose, make sure you push it in far enough so it does not interfere with the ports that each end will go on to.  That is why you really only need 16 inches of copper.   Of course this makes bending the curves on the ends a little challenging but it is do-able.  The best part of this project is if you completely mess up, the cost to try again is minimal.  Additionally, you are saving yourself a lot of money over buying some pre-molded hose unless you truly need restoration caliber hoses, in that case be prepared to pony up.

Next up is my modified choke cable project.  Stay tuned and Merry Christmas everyone!

Edited by Hardway
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1 hour ago, 240260280 said:

Carbs look great too!

Thank you Phil!  Couldn't have done it without the work you did on the books and articles.

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