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hatepotholez

Engine only runs with starter fluid

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You might have a later model damper, with the timing tab on the passenger side, or vice versa.  You need to find out what's going on, because if your damper has spun then it's failing, and could cause more damage than just a misplaced timing mark when it lets go for good (bad).

Edited by Zed Head

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That's the same as my early '72, pointer and pulley.  I think it would be worth the time figuring out if your timing chain sprocket lines up with the TDC markings.  I've got that stuff outside in a storage building and if I took each piece and took a picture of them separate then you would be able to figure it out.  I'll try and get that together for you asap but it's COLD!!! down here. :hello:

A quick way to look and see if it's close is look at the front of the pulley at TDC.  The notch on the crank's nose where the "key lock"? slides in should be pointed straight up.  

I found a thrust plate in my guest/junk room.  If you'll look through the hole on the cam sprocket, to the left you'll see a notch on the backside of the sprocket and in that notch you should see a small line to the left of the bolt on the thrust plate.

The whole reason I'm saying this is because it may be as easy as moving the cam sprocket to the next hole.  They have #1, #2 and #3 for adjusting out the chain stretch.

tdc240z.png

DSC01681.JPG

Edited by siteunseen

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I'm thinking that the camshaft gear might be a aftermarket unit and the hub is larger than the OE which might cover the groove on the plate. 

Edited by hatepotholez

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I seem to recall that some aftermarket timing chain sprockets don't have notches.  It's the sprocket that has the notch.  

I'd focus on that damper first.  It's a very important part even though it doesn't seem to do much but spin.

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1 minute ago, Zed Head said:

I seem to recall that some aftermarket timing chain sprockets don't have notches.  It's the sprocket that has the notch.  

I'd focus on that damper first.  It's a very important part even though it doesn't seem to do much but spin.

I agree, I have no information on the engine rebuild. I will set the carbs, get a damper,  get the car road worthy and then later on go back and redo the whole timing chain/gears. 

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On 1/2/2017 at 8:21 PM, Zed Head said:

Here's a picture from the FSM showing the notch and groove inspection.  The groove is on the plate behind the sprccket and the notch is in the edge of the sprocket, next to the plate.

1973 n g.PNG

 

On 1/2/2017 at 10:20 PM, Zed Head said:

That's a great reference from atlanticz.ca.  The drawings in the FSM don't give a good idea of what they actually look like.  I cut out the part that shows the notch and groove, although the yellow arrow is off a bit..

Not quite.PNG

 

Thanks for these also!

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Ok on to the carbs,

 

I purchased this kit when I rebuilt my carbs:

https://zcardepot.com/fuel/carburetor/carburetor-rebuild-kit-round-top-su-240z-1970-73.html

The needles are M43 and M39. Would the longer needle be less rich? I should have checked the needles that originally came with the car.

Also I ordered a colortune, I find this device amazing. Once I get everything synced, I will use the colortune to finish the job. 

On to the floats, I received an email from Bruce stating: 

"hold the lid like it is on the carb with the float under the lid. Blow into the fuel inlet tube while moving the float up toward the lid. You’ll feel when the needles closes. At that point you measure the distance from the bottom of the lid to the top of the float lever. .55"

I will try this.

Edited by hatepotholez

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I couldn't ever get that to work by myself, didn't try too long after I realized I needed another pair of hands.  With someone checking the .55" measure for you it will be easier.  I was trying to do everything looking at the mirror's reversed image. :rolleyes:

1/8th clear hose will work on the very bottom nipple of the float chamber.  Hardware or aquarium supply store should have this.  2 feet is enough for both carbs.  Good luck.

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2 minutes ago, siteunseen said:

Ooops!  It's 1/4", sorry.

1483995534402.jpg

1483995592979.jpg

Thanks!!

 

I ordered the float-sync off eBay. I believe it's a hybridZ forum member who is making it.

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On 1/8/2017 at 10:57 AM, siteunseen said:

The whole reason I'm saying this is because it may be as easy as moving the cam sprocket to the next hole.  They have #1, #2 and #3 for adjusting out the chain stretch.
 

What does the cam sprocket positon have to do with the timing marks on the damper? The timing marks on the damper indicate cranckshaft positon with with respect to the #1 piston.

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The cam sprocket's postilion, relative to the crankshaft, is determined by the chain.  You can check the damper with the camshaft completely removed.

I like the idea of removing the crankshaft damper bolt and washer and checking the woodruff keyway position.  It should be visible and oriented to the top of the cylinder bores.  I'd say "straight up" but the engine is tilted.  Once hate starts removing belts though, he'll probably find that it's wiggly and obviously bad.  If the bolt was easier to get to and remove this would probably be the first thing we recommend.  But it's a pain, so it's not.

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15 hours ago, siteunseen said:

I was thinking if he had the cam sprocket groove and the line on the cam lock down plate lined up, the damper might line up with the 0 mark.  It's not very far judging by his pictures.  

Perhaps they would but that won't tell us anything about the position of the piston nor will it help set the ignition timing which is the purpose for the marks on the damper.

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On 1/8/2017 at 1:57 PM, siteunseen said:

That's the same as my early '72, pointer and pulley.  I think it would be worth the time figuring out if your timing chain sprocket lines up with the TDC markings.  I've got that stuff outside in a storage building and if I took each piece and took a picture of them separate then you would be able to figure it out.  I'll try and get that together for you asap but it's COLD!!! down here. :hello:

A quick way to look and see if it's close is look at the front of the pulley at TDC.  The notch on the crank's nose where the "key lock"? slides in should be pointed straight up.  

I found a thrust plate in my guest/junk room.  If you'll look through the hole on the cam sprocket, to the left you'll see a notch on the backside of the sprocket and in that notch you should see a small line to the left of the bolt on the thrust plate.

The whole reason I'm saying this is because it may be as easy as moving the cam sprocket to the next hole.  They have #1, #2 and #3 for adjusting out the chain stretch.

tdc240z.png

DSC01681.JPG

I forgot to ask, which cam gear is that? Doesn't look OE per the service manual. 

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I can't remember right off, I'll look in my file and see if I can find the receipt.  It's for a ZX, I know that.  Seems like I had a hard time finding a timing kit for a 2.4 then someone said the racers use ZX kits so that's what I bought.  Power Line I think.

After fiddling with carbs floats for a couple of weeks I finally got them at 23mm.  Tuned the nozzles and ended up at 3 1/2 turns down.  My car finally runs like the other 240 I had, it pulls hard until the redline then I shift up.  So damn happy!  

Edited by siteunseen

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21 hours ago, siteunseen said:

I can't remember right off, I'll look in my file and see if I can find the receipt.  It's for a ZX, I know that.  Seems like I had a hard time finding a timing kit for a 2.4 then someone said the racers use ZX kits so that's what I bought.  Power Line I think.

After fiddling with carbs floats for a couple of weeks I finally got them at 23mm.  Tuned the nozzles and ended up at 3 1/2 turns down.  My car finally runs like the other 240 I had, it pulls hard until the redline then I shift up.  So damn happy!  

thats fantastic!!

I just received my float-sync tool going to try it this weekend and see how it goes. I'm also going to remove my choke cables when I do the carb adjustments, I want to make sure the chokes don't interfere with the balancing. 

 

 

20 hours ago, siteunseen said:

Loading my clothes and looked up to see this. :)

1484253679746.jpg

1484253718925.jpg

Thanks!

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I apologize for not updating sooner, but I really don't have the time to work on the car only between semesters. 

So now that the timing issue is sort of fixed I moved on to the carbs. I bought a Gunson colortune, very simple in it's operation. I'm not sure if anyone here has used it but you adjust the carbs until the flame in at the color tune is blue. I was able to adjust the rear carb to get a blue flame but the front is rich. The car is so rich that it wouldn't start back up at the gas station. I can't seem to figure this out. I am going to check the aftermarket mechanical fuel pump pressure to see if it is less than 3.5psi. I don't know what else to do at this point. My floats are good, I adjusted the a/f adjustment by 1 turn roughly, all my emission equipment is disconnected and capped. 

 

 

 

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 Are the fuel nozzles both in the up (un-choked) position? Occasionally, that metal linkage bit from the cable to the nozzle can get a bit of a twist in it and prevent the nozzle from sliding up when the choke is off.

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That happened to one of mine before.  The nozzle was stuck.  I had unhook everything and drop the nozzle then sand the brass down smooth.  It was coated with a varnishy coating from sitting too long.

Good eye Mark, hopefully. LOL

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