Quick Revving L28

[cygnusx1]

You want it to rev fast (quickly in neutral)? Shorten the stroke, lighten and balance all of the rotating mass, open up the intake and exhaust tracts, use multiple throttle plates, run high compression...did I miss anything?

[Ted.]

This is exactly what I proposed, to a tee actually. L24 crank for the shorter stroke, smaller combustion chambers/longer rods/flat top pistons for increased compression, balance crank/rods/pistons, mild port and polish on the head, and running the Series 1 carbs.

Block: L28 F54

Head: L24 E31

Crank: L24 E31

Con Rods: L24 E31

Pistons: L28 P79

Edited December 10, 2011 by Ted.

[cygnusx1]

Here is my BONE stock L28 (1976) with Triple 40 DCOE carbs, headers, and a 12lb steel flywheel. Heel and Toe is pure bliss!

Edited December 10, 2011 by cygnusx1

[John Coffey]

Really guys, I think you need to cut Ted some courtesy here. Very few posts, but a well thought out question and it's obvious he has done his homework. He was specific in his question and knows Z motors, he didn't ask something dumb like"what do is the timing set at on the L24". He searched!!!!

"yawn"-really, I agree with Ted here, not everyone is building race engines, but we are all about learning something different. With your wealth of knowledge John you could have easily been more constructive.

I missed your reply Steve. How many of these Internet engine build threads have you seen since you started posting on the various Zcar forums? Probably a lot. Since 1999 I've seen hundreds and they always follow the same basic format (at least the more intelligent ones).

1. Technical question with some good facts and some erroneous assumptions.

2. Generic replies and some "go for its."

3. Some posts begin with corrections on the erroneous assumptions.

4. OP defends those assumptions (sometimes the OP takes it personally).

5. More posts going back and forth defending previous posts.

6. OP posts more information about the build plan that wasn't' disclosed earlier (cost concerns, parts availability, schedule, etc.).

7. Arguments increase defending various relevant and irrelevant positions.

8. Thread gets closed and deleted.

Just waiting for this thread to take its course.

Edited December 10, 2011 by John Coffey

[sblake01]

Also, it seems like those arguments seem to initiate/escalate when certain individuals are involved.

Edited December 10, 2011 by sblake01

[sblake01]

Sorry, double post.

Edited December 10, 2011 by sblake01

[John Coffey]

With your wealth of knowledge John you could have easily been more constructive.

BTW... except for my "yawn" comment, I was constructive in all of my posts and even encouraging:

Build it and prove me wrong

Unfortunately, what I had to say wasn't what the OP wanted to hear, even though he asked for it.

BTW... there's not much of a different in "rate of spin up" between a stock L24. L26, and L28. The perceived differences have far more to do with the state of tune of the engines being tested then stroke, mass, or MOI.

Again, how fast your junkyard build will rev has much, much more to do with the quality of the build and the quality of the tune then stroke, mass, or MOI. Orders of magnitude more.

So I get crap for posting the correct answers in a way that makes someone feel uncomfortable and contradicts their own opinion? I build race cars. I've raced Datsuns with junkyard L24s, professionally built L28s, and a race L30 costing tens of thousands of dollars. I've built race and street cars for customers running L6s, LT1s, LS1s, SR20s, RB26s, 20Bs, 13Bs, 2JZGTEs and God knows what else. I'm not a psychologist. To quote Jules: "If my answers frighten you, then you should cease asking scary questions."

Yeah, and sometimes I'm full of myself... :-)

Edited December 10, 2011 by John Coffey

[sblake01]

John, I'm fairly certain that wasn't in response to my comment but, just to be clear, my comment wasn't aimed at you or even at this site but rather car (or other) sites in general.

Edited December 10, 2011 by sblake01

[Ted.]

1. Technical question with some good facts and some erroneous assumptions.

So, you would rather instead of someone genuinely interested in these cars with an idea, you would rather someone come in and ask generic questions so you can flex your knowledge muscle?

2. Generic replies and some "go for its."

So far the only generic and go for it replies have been from people defending my proposal when you and Leon shot it down without question, you doing so with out any initial opinion or thought other then a cynical comment.

3. Some posts begin with corrections on the erroneous assumptions.

No posts began with 'corrections', only personal opinion on what would be a better engine. I didn't ask what everyone thought about a different engine, I asked what everyone thought about THIS engine.

4. OP defends those assumptions (sometimes the OP takes it personally).

Only when I felt I had been insulted. If you'll notice, until you and Leon started making cynical remarks, everything was fine. And when you stopped it was fine again. I know everyone isn't going to agree with it, thats why I posted this, to get more ideas. The fact that you two were so quick to shoot it down without a second thought is why I got upset, especially when I'm not just some kid

5. More posts going back and forth defending previous posts.

See 4

6. OP posts more information about the build plan that wasn't' disclosed earlier (cost concerns, parts availability, schedule, etc.)

The fact that I was using all factory components should have made cost constraints obvious. If I had unlimited funds, destroking this motor wouldn't serve any purpose other then to see if it was possible. Granted, I should have clarified it in the initial post to avoid as much confusion as possible

7. Arguments increase defending various relevant and irrelevant positions.

The only argument that increased was when he would reply with a snappy comment. Notice, when you replied with relevant information, I asked questions and proposed an alternate way of thinking based on factory parts, as opposed to extensive machining. Hell, even when he posted relevant information after what I felt was insulting, I replied back without argument, only my point of view on the topic.

8. Thread gets closed and deleted.

If you know its going to happen, then why did you bother posting in the first place? If you hadn't, or had posted relevant information before being an arrogant Z savant, you might have had a future customer. I wasn't aware this is how a business was run.

@cygnus Thats pretty sexy, man! I still feel the L24 crank will allow that with the light weight flywheel even more, and the rods will have a more linear stroke, so it will be more comfortable revving higher, as well. Still, it sounds really good. What does she pull on the dyno? How does the torque curve look?

[LeonV]

Sigh...

I'll just second what John said, especially the "taking it personally" and "posting more information that wasn't disclosed earlier" parts.

Good luck with your build.

[John Coffey]

If you know its going to happen, then why did you bother posting in the first place? If you hadn't, or had posted relevant information before being an arrogant Z savant, you might have had a future customer. I wasn't aware this is how a business was run.

I don't post here or on HybridZ with the intent of getting future customers, I'm not that kind of a businessman. I was posting on these sites and a Moderator at HybridZ before I opened the shop in 2003. If I was posting with the intent of getting future customers I would have blown smoke up your butt and said you were the brightest poster here on the site. That's not how I conduct my business or myself. I'm honest and don't BS my customers just so I can squeeze another dime out of them. If I think they are wasting their money or their time, I let them know.

As I said before, build it and prove me wrong.

[Ted.]

I wasn't saying that I wanted smoke blown up my butt, but the fact that you made a cynical remark instead of a suggestion first speaks worlds about how you conduct yourself.

As soon as I get back from basic training, the block and head and getting machined while I'm on leave. The build should officially start in the end of February, both the L24 and L28 should be in my garage before I leave, providing I can find the right motors in time.