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240z # 2


ddezso

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Hey everyone - I am super stoked to be here.

About 3 weeks ago I got a 1970 240Z after 17 years without a Z.

See . . . my first car ever was a 1972 240Z. I got it when I was 16, drove it for 3 months, and totalled it. I was in the hospital for a week and had my spleen removed - nearly died. God what a crappy driver I was (and 3 beers at 16 didn't help)........

I've always wanted another one. After my recovery I had a chance to buy a perfect orange 1972 240Z with something like 60,000 original miles for real cheap and passed on it. I have dreamed of getting one all this time. I even have the original shift knob from the Z I crashed waiting to find a new home for it.

Well - after bidding on countless cars on EBay and losing at the last minute to crazy bidders, I found a 1970 in Chicago online. It's VIN is HLS3003137. Although I hada 1972 I understand the 1970 is the most collectible year. It has ZERO rust and is totally straight. I now have it here in Arizona where it will stay that way. I'll put the pictures from the seller in the gallery, then take some new ones to show the progress I have already made.

I've already asked you guys a few questions on the forums and thanks for the help. Can't wait to finish this awesome project and learn how to restore a car....

Derek

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I'm glad you asked about build date because several things about this car perplex me. The answers are probably obvious.

The idiot who last painted the car removed the door plate with build date and the serial # plate in the engine compartment (along with all of the exterior logos and painting the chrome door handles red).

The only place to get the VIN is on the dash.

In addition, the hatch does not have the vent holes and the defrost lines on the window are horizontal (I think they were vertical on a 1970 right?) It doesnt appear to have been in an accident but I can only conclude the hatch was a replacement. My plan is to recut holes in the existing hatch and put the grilles back over them. Would you guys cut holes or just put the grilles on?

The engine serial # is L26 112926 which from what I have read is certainly not original (anyone know the definitive answer on that?) It still has the original SU's though from what a guy told me who has had a bunch of Z's.

Otherwise it has the other characteristics of a 1970 - the fusecover/ashtray, center console, speedo starts at 20, temp gauge to 250 oil to 140, no holes near the small rear window for vents, little storage compartments behind the seats rather than in the rear deck......

I want to be legit when I register and I am sure the VIN is correct. Is there any way based on VIN to get the build date? Is there a database of that stuff?

As far as my plans they are to restore as close to stock as my budget (and wife's patience) will allow. It will be garaged and driven maybe once a week for a couple of miles to the car show we have every Saturday in Scottsdale. For me the fun is fixing it up and making it perfect so I can see myself constantly doing that for years. If I hit the lottery I'll pay someone to do a frame off....

Any thoughts on this would help satisfy some big time curiosity I have.....

Thanks as always!

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Sounds like either a 70 or early 71. Mine is much the same, the hatch has been replaced with a later one. But since there are no vents under the emblems on the quarter panel, I'm sure that yours is also a Series I car.

The true chassis number is also stamped in the firewall, and that is the very best place to verify what you have. Look on the firewall to the right of the battery.

Replacement ID plates are available from several sources, Banzai, for example.

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Hey Derek,

Ill try to answer what I can, and certainly there are others here that know more of the details I hope they stop in here to help you out too,

1st,

based on what you say about the paint job, (removing all logos) theres a good chance that hatch you have is the orginal one...he probably just took those off too, and patched over them and painted..as for the lack of defroster elements, most of the old Z's orginal defrosters have worn out..the window elements...that is. Ive seen several people that have removed the elements completly from the window. you can check out your hatch more throughly, by looking for the orginal nissan marking on the glass, which could help in verifying that its not an aftermarket glass. look carefully along the top and bottom of the inside of the glass near the window seal..you may be able to see reminants of the old defroster markings. you can also take off that interior hatch trim piece and see inside for indications of the old vents.

if you by chance found the hatch to be orginal but the vent holes welded up..you might just want to modify some vent pieces to just be like an emblem and attach it with doublesided tape.

2nd.

Like Arne said, you can verify your vin on the firewall. its stamped into the metal, its unlikely the guy covered over that or anything else, and it would be the most accurate way to determne the true vin. (vin plates can be changed..though its very unlikely) then assuming your VIN is correct, your build date is April 1970.

3rd

The engine # you have is from a 260Z or maybe even something (diff model car) being put out by Datsun at the time of the 260Z. There used to be or maybe still are "japaneze motor warehouses" where you would buy used japan versions of your motor. I did this a couple times in the 80's. I dont know if you can even get L-series motors used from Japan anymore. I dont know a lot about what else abroad came with the L motors, someone else could help out here more than me. ((got any pictures of the motor?)) and this guy says you have the orginal carbs>? for the L-26 still on it? if this is true...then you very well may have the infamous flat top 260Z carbs...(take a pic and post it here) you could benefit performance wise from getting a nice set of earlyer Z carbs... and be closer to orginal 1970 style too. http://www.ztherapy.com go to this website for more info and lots of pics of Z carbs. they do good work.

hope this info helps out. go look at the Zcar registry (i left a link in my other post. to see when your car was built.

JacK

I'm glad you asked about build date because several things about this car perplex me. The answers are probably obvious.

The idiot who last painted the car removed the door plate with build date and the serial # plate in the engine compartment (along with all of the exterior logos and painting the chrome door handles red).

The only place to get the VIN is on the dash.

In addition, the hatch does not have the vent holes and the defrost lines on the window are horizontal (I think they were vertical on a 1970 right?) It doesnt appear to have been in an accident but I can only conclude the hatch was a replacement. My plan is to recut holes in the existing hatch and put the grilles back over them. Would you guys cut holes or just put the grilles on?

The engine serial # is L26 112926 which from what I have read is certainly not original (anyone know the definitive answer on that?) It still has the original SU's though from what a guy told me who has had a bunch of Z's.

Otherwise it has the other characteristics of a 1970 - the fusecover/ashtray, center console, speedo starts at 20, temp gauge to 250 oil to 140, no holes near the small rear window for vents, little storage compartments behind the seats rather than in the rear deck......

I want to be legit when I register and I am sure the VIN is correct. Is there any way based on VIN to get the build date? Is there a database of that stuff?

As far as my plans they are to restore as close to stock as my budget (and wife's patience) will allow. It will be garaged and driven maybe once a week for a couple of miles to the car show we have every Saturday in Scottsdale. For me the fun is fixing it up and making it perfect so I can see myself constantly doing that for years. If I hit the lottery I'll pay someone to do a frame off....

Any thoughts on this would help satisfy some big time curiosity I have.....

Thanks as always!

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Derek,

Looking at the IZCC registry, I would say you have an April build date. There is no data-base that I am aware of. The engine is not original, however the carbs could be. I'll bet the hatch has been replaced with a later one. Sounds like it. The early vented hatches came with vertical defroster lines after serial number HLS30-01452.

This means that your car has no provision for interior ventilation. Not a huge issue - the vented hatches notoriously leak exhaust fumes. I wouldn't cut holes in the hatch. Just back-paint the hatch black undrneath the vent grills or leave the body shaved as it is. Shaved bodies are quite popular these days.

post-4148-14150796180841_thumb.jpg

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Thanks again fellas.

I have attached some pictures of the engine and carbs to see what insight you may have.

Regarding the hatch, there are some 1970 hatch vents on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4586351752&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

My thought was to cut holes and attach these vents. I already have the replacement vent covers. That's probably more trouble than it's worth huh? Especially if I'm not going for a totally perfect restoration.....

I think I'll also order a replacement ID plate now that I see that is an option.

I looked at my firewall for a VIN and it is a bit dirty. Can you please help me get more specific regarding the location of the number?

Thanks

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post-9919-14150796182124_thumb.jpg

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Well - it appears I have been scammed (or someone before me was). Although the VIN on the dash says HLS3003137, the firewall is stamped with HLS3014160.

I've attached pics of both. Does the dash VIN look like a fake to you or is it more likely that it is a dash taken from another car? Obviously the jamb and engine plates were removed to perpetuate the scam....

Based on this new VIN number any idea what year and build date I have? I want to get the VIN's correct all the way around....

I feel so used

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OK guys - get a load of this. This is from Carl Beck. I sent in the original VIN to register on his site, then sent a note saying I discovered it was the wrong VIN. I suppose this could be a lesson to everyone. I am interested in yor thoughts and what you would do. I am confident the seller had no idea or bad intent and I love the car and want to keep it. The title references the wrong official VIN #.

Hi Derek:

#14160 would still be a Series I, 240-Z (meaning it has the same

body style as all cars built between Oct. 1969 and Jan. of 1971. with the fresh air exhaust vents on the deck lid)...

But it is more than likely it was originally sold as, and titled as a

1971 Model Year 240-Z. It would have had a build date of 11/70, so it most likely didn't arrive at the dealership for sale until around Jan or Feb of 1971.

Your first concern - is that if for some reason any law enforcement officer runs that original VIN (14160) and finds it was reported either stolen, or totalled - - - they can and will impound the car on the spot. If you are in an accident and they check the car - your in real trouble.

Likewise this could be real trouble with your insurance company. If it's wrecked, and the adjustor checks the VIN's... he'll tell the insurance company it isn't the car you had insured (the VIN's don't match). That could leave you in very bad position with no personal liability coverage! (something that could take you a lifetime to pay off if a judgment was entered against you... NOT GOOD).

It is "possible" that the car was rebuilt out of a junk yard - in which case by law it should have been assigned a new VIN by the Department of Motor Vehicles, and that should have been indicated on the title.

It is "possible" that someone owned both cars and simply used the newer body shell - to replace the original one. In that case, to be on the correct side of the law, a law enforcement officer should have been present when the VIN on the dash was removed.... and after the "full body replacement" was accomplished, that same officer should have been present when the VIN was placed back in the car. Of course any buyer should then be furnished with copies of that paperwork - so they would know it was done legally and without intent to defraud.

At this point - because you know that the chassis doesn't match the VIN - if you resell it to someone else - they could drive it for year, wreck it, and return it to you - or go to the Police and press charges for fraud against you. (not a good situation to be in).

If I were you, I'd take it back to the seller - and demand my money back. If he doesn't return it in cash, in full and at once - I'd talk to a lawyer about what the next step should be. At any rate it's bag you don't want to be left holding... and one you certainly don't want to attempt to pass on to anyone else.. the personal liability is simply too great.

good luck,

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I agree with Carl, at least somewhat. I'd get an attorney involved, either to facilitate correcting the title, or to facilitate the car's return if necessary. You definitely don't want to have the car and the title not match.

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i was looking at a zed and the door jam tag had been drilled out and replaced with screws instead of revits and the vin # was obscured and i could only make out two numerals. couldn't match it up with the dash vin and no reasonable explaination from the seller why. i walked away.i didn't know about the firewall # till now.

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The tough part is I love the car, have already put about $800 into improvements, and dont want to call a lawyer. The current plan is to have both VIN's checked to make sure it's not stolen property. If it passes that test then I'll figure out how to make it legit. Otherwise the seller is going to have an unpleasant call...

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  • 1 month later...

Well I went to the state inspection office for the 3rd time today. They have verified that the car isn't stolen. Apparently the next step is the state removes the mismatched dash VIN from the car and they create a new dash VIN plate to match the firewall VIN #.

I will wind up with a title for the appropriate VIN HLS3014160 which is a relief instead of a state issued VIN and salvage title.

The car isn't the super low #3137 but still a pretty good #14160, is not stolen, and will have appropriate VIN's and titles. I think I will order new replacement door jamb and engine compartment tags to make it even more legit....

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