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Early Z


Sean Dezart

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Been out of things for a while so sorry if this thread is a repeat !

So, I have a 'US' 240, with a build date stamp plate (inside of drivers' door) showing June 1970, and chassis number HLS30-04944.

Now, I read somewhere that the chassis numbers run was not 'consistent' and/or ran in parallel and so I'm wondering if that means that there is an HS30-04944 and that mine isn't necessarily the 4944th ever built !

Can anyone enlighten me please ?

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I believe the inconsistency is more with the build date than the VIN. Your car is built in 6-70 with a vin of 4944 but there could be some Z's out there with a lower vin number but a later date (ex. build date 7/-70 and a vin lower than 4944). I think your's is the 4944th ever built but the actual buid date might not be 6-70. I hope that make since. There is a thread called "how close are our vins" where this is covered some, it might still be active too.

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From what I've been advised, there is probably an HS30-004944 and an S30-04944 (I say probably because maybe the cars in time have been scrapped, maybe not !

I agree that the build date stamp plate is not accurate but I doubt that the plate date is later than the manufacture, why do that ? Hmm, perhaps I should be clear; I doubt that the plate date is significantly later than the actual manufacture date, perhaps the plate date is a month later than actual manufacture, when they got around to fixing the plates at the dock before departure ! In any case, the plate date would be later than build date (plate date the same as the date of plate fixation?) unless Nissan was on a scam of some sort to produce more cars than expected in 1970 or before a certain month ? Hardly likely !

I therefore have tio assume that mine was built no later than June 1970 ! Logical conclusion ???

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Hi Sean:

The chassis numbers are serial.

Cars were not completed in chassis serial number sequence. They did not roll off a single assembly line in serial number order.

You have the 4944th HLS30 chassis built - but it may not have been the 4944th Left Hand Drive Datsun 240-Z completed. (but it is most likely very close to that).

Nissan used one serial number set for the HLS30 chassis and another serial number set for the HS30 chassis. So you might find for example that HLS30 0089 is owned by Danny Tucker in Oregon, USA; while HS30 0089 is owned by Adam Batter in Australia.

You would find that HLS30 00415 is still owned by it's original owner Donn Walket, in San Diego, California - and still has it's original engine serial number L24-2756, with a Build Date of 11/69; while HS30 00415 is owned by Doug Wright in Australia and it's original engine serial number is L24 24587 (aprox. 12/70 build date).

It would be very unlikely that you will find HS30 49xx anywhere. Indeed very unlikely that it would exist. Something less than 4,000 Right Hand Drive Datsun 240-Z's were produced between 1969 and the end of the 1972 Model Year (Series III cars). Then in both the HS and HLS serial number sequence - Nissan jumped ahead to restart the serial numbers for the 1973 Model Year. The HLS30 series restarted at HLS30 120xxx and I believe (someone can look it up) that the HS serial numbers restarted at HS30 100xxx

As Chris mentioned - you "might" find the Fairlady Z with the chassis number S30 04944.

FWIW,

Carl

Carl Beck

Clearwater, FL USA

http://ZHome.com

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The only other fact I have to go on is that the date stamp on the rear view mirror fitting is May 1970 !

The date of first registration in the US was 1971 but no month !

Wouldn't it be nice to be able to look up chassis number ranges to see - their market destination, factory options etc.....yeah, dream on !

Thanks for more precision - I accept that it is precocious to claim it is the 4944th built but, as you say, it won't be far off - all depends how many they built and stamped in a batch :-)

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Sean,

I think you got most of the information you wanted from the replies you received via the other forum you posted this question on.........

......Something less than 4,000 Right Hand Drive Datsun 240-Z's were produced between 1969 and the end of the 1972 Model Year (Series III cars)..........

As usual, not entirely accurate about the RHD cars.....

"1972 Model Year" is I believe a USA / Canadian market term. Not applicable to RHD cars. As is "Series III" ( along with "Series I" and "Series II" ).

And you are forgetting that not all 'HS30' VIN-prefixed cars were 'Datsun 240Z' models. The Japanese home market had the 'Nissan Fairlady 240Z', 'Nissan Fairlady 240Z-L' and 'Nissan Fairlady 240ZG' added to their range in October 1971. All three models used the 'HS30' VIN prefix, and the word 'Datsun' was not written anywhere on the cars.

....Then in both the HS and HLS serial number sequence - Nissan jumped ahead to restart the serial numbers for the 1973 Model Year. The HLS30 series restarted at HLS30 120xxx and I believe (someone can look it up) that the HS serial numbers restarted at HS30 100xxx

Japanese home market 'HS30' VIN-prefixed models manufactured during the calendar year of 1971 had body serial numbers 'HS30-10001' through 'HS30-10436'. Then the 1972 calendar year had 'HS30-010437' ( note that extra digit ) through 'HS30-012045', whereafter the first digit was changed over to a '1' and numbers 'HS30-100001' through 'HS30-100800' were manufactured. 1973 calendar year production started from 'HS30-100801'..........

As Chris mentioned - you "might" find the Fairlady Z with the chassis number S30 04944.

You "might" find it if you are looking for it, but more to the point - it was made and it did exist.

Alan T.

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Alan, You can't blame me for seeking a worldwide opinion on this, the other site is SOOOOO limited :-) ! I am quite satisfied with the info found over there but curious to see what others think, especially those from the US in whose market this particular car was sold.

So all the Fairlady 240Zs had the HS30 prefix ! Now I'm confused, as I thought that the JDM 240Zs were S30s and the H was possibly for exported models (HS for RHD and HLS for left hand drive !

So what models are covered by the 'S30' and 'PS30' (Z432 and Z432R ?) or is the 'S30' a contraction of HS and HLS30 ?

Be patient with the ignorant, help me to crawl out of the darkness and to help others - the gospel is coming, I can hear the angels singing !

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H signifies the 2.4 liter engine. It has nothing to do with which side the steering wheel was on. HLS30-120001 began in July 1972 regardless of what 'model year' it was given.

Sean, do a search through these archives and you will find discussions about manufacturung dates on various parts in your car. Currently, someone is talking about a date stamp they found on their gas tank. Comparing these part number dates with the door tag date will give you an excellent idea of exactly when your car was built.

Chris

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H signifies the 2.4 liter engine. It has nothing to do with which side the steering wheel was on. HLS30-120001 began in July 1972 regardless of what 'model year' it was given.

Hi Chris:

I believe that information about the start date for the 73 Model Year Left Hand Drive, Datsun 240-Z's is taken from the earlier Nissan USA Parts Catalogs.

As is the case with several Nissan reported data points, it just doesn't line up with what we have found to be the case in the real world.

HLS30 120001 may have been built in Aug. 1972, but most likely it was Sept. 1972 (so far we have not located that specific car), even though some Nissan Publications do state a beginning in July of 72.

Nonetheless every VIN past HLS30 1200596 that we have recorded so far has a Sep. 72 build date. HLS30 120031 is Bob Bondurant's and I believe it has a Sept. 72 Build Date as well.

All the cars with build dates in July and Aug. of 72, that we have found so far have VIN's between HLS30 91591 and HLS30 100155 (Jim's white Z from Dan) and are 1972 Model Year DATSUN 240-Z's.

So I believe it's pretty safe to say that the 73 Model Year cars that were given chassis numbers starting with HLS30 120xxx started production in Sept of 1972.

"Model Year" may indeed only be an important designation here in the US. But it is relevant and important for example when passing the annual emissions standards tests in many States - as it is the Model Year they go by, not the production date. Likewise it was an important designation for the Federal Vehicle Safety Standards and Emissions Standards. (73 Model Year Z's here in the US had to have 2.5mph bumpers and the "emissions" carb's etc).

If there was the typical overlap in production between one Model Year and the Next in the same month (maybe in Aug.) then the two cars would be built to different safety and emissions standards and they would have to sold as, and titled as, different Model Year cars here in the US.

Just to carry this "H" thing a bit farther..

"H" signifies the 2.4 liter engine in the 240-Z's when it's in the first position of the VIN prefix. If the VIN is HS30H - the second "H" signifies a JDM Fairlady 240 Z-G. Of course the "H" signifies the 2.8L engine if it's in the first position of the VIN prefix for a DATSUN 280Z. (not to be at all picky - but we do have DATSUN 280Z owners on the forum as well, and did not want to confuse them either.).

FWIW,

Carl

Carl Beck

Clearwater,FL USA

http://ZHome.com

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HS30H - the second "H" signifies a JDM Fairlady 240 Z-G and only a Z-G ? Not any other JDM Fairlady 240Z model ?

I might be getting the hang of this ! It was all so easy back in '89 when I bought my first one when I read two books and thought I knew it all ! I still knew 100x more than my neighbour who said it was a cross between a Capri and an E-Type - limited view, limited knowledge !

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You're right, Carl. My info came from the Fourth Overall Parts Catalog, December 1973. One of things I like so much about this sport is that when you think you know what's going on, someone shows up with an exception to the rule. Yes, the H signifies the 2.8 liter engine also - sorry all you 280Z guys out there.

Yes, Sean, HS30-H is the designation code for the Fairlady 240ZG introduced October 1971 and discontinued September 1973 according to Brian Long; "Datsun Z, Fairlady to 280Z".

Chris

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"H" signifies the 2.4 liter engine in the 240-Z's when it's in the first position of the VIN prefix. If the VIN is HS30H - the second "H" signifies a JDM Fairlady 240 Z-G. Of course the "H" signifies the 2.8L engine if it's in the first position of the VIN prefix for a DATSUN 280Z. (not to be at all picky - but we do have DATSUN 280Z owners on the forum as well, and did not want to confuse them either.).

Oh dear,

I get home from a hard day's work and have to read more bollocks on this thread..............

Show me an "HS30H" VIN and you get a fantastic prize from yours truly. A wooden spoon with your name engraved on it.

There ain't no such animal.

The 'H' suffix of the Fairlady 240ZG was never stamped on the firewall or VIN tag, and existed only in Nissan's internal documentation and model delineation - in just the same way as the Fairlady Z and Fairlady Z-L shared the 'S30' VIN prefix on their firewall and VIN tag stampings even though one was actually an 'S30' and one was an 'S30-S'.........

I need a nightcap. :sleep:

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..........Of course the "H" signifies the 2.8L engine if it's in the first position of the VIN prefix for a DATSUN 280Z. (not to be at all picky - but we do have DATSUN 280Z owners on the forum as well, and did not want to confuse them either.)

We 280Z owners are probably the least confused members on this site as far as our cars go since we don't have to deal with as many variations of our cars as the 240Z owners. The picture was beginning to clear up a bit by the time of the introduction of the 280Z but I'm afraid that there will always be myths, confusion, heresay, outright untruths, differing viewpoints, etc. when it comes to the history of the earlier cars. Not just Z's but early Datsun/Nissan cars in general.

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Oh dear,

I get home from a hard day's work and have to read more bollocks on this thread..............

Show me an "HS30H" VIN and you get a fantastic prize from yours truly. A wooden spoon with your name engraved on it.

There ain't no such animal.

The 'H' suffix of the Fairlady 240ZG was never stamped on the firewall or VIN tag, and existed only in Nissan's internal documentation and model delineation - in just the same way as the Fairlady Z and Fairlady Z-L shared the 'S30' VIN prefix on their firewall and VIN tag stampings even though one was actually an 'S30' and one was an 'S30-S'.........

I need a nightcap. :sleep:

Thanks Alan - we had an off line discussion about that and I wondered if the HS30-H was the same as the HLS30 A or HLS30 AU etc. in that regard..(also never stamped in the firewall nor VIN tags). Too bad they didn't stamp the firewall - makes it harder to tell original from reproduction.

It also answers some questions I had about your earlier listing of VIN start and stop points for the chassis serial number sequences. Do you have an end number for the 1973 chassis numbers?

By 1972 was the JDM Fairlady 240 Z-L the same, or all but the same car as the units shipped to Australia? Were the Export HS30's and JDM HS30's sharing the same chassis number series, only using different assigned segments?

regards,

Carl

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Stephen,

It's up to the likes of us (or more likely - THEM with us posing our questions) that CAN clear up the myths, confusion, heresay, outright untruths, etc, always allowing for differing viewpoints but one can't argue when the truth is presented on a plate !

So here I go again (wanting to understand) :

JDM Fairlady 240Z VIN S30

JDM Fairlady 240Z-L VIN S30-S but second 'S' doesn't appear on firewall and tag stampings

JDM Fairlady 240Z-G VIN HS30-H but second 'H' doesn't appear on firewall and tag stampings

First 'H' in HS-30 refers to 2.4 litre engine !

Questions (still) - why are the first two above (S30 and S30-S) known as 240Zs if they don't have the 2.4 litre engine (no 'H' suffix) ?

Were there two Z-G models ? One a 2 litre and one a 2.4 ?

How does Nissan denote the 2 litre Z-G model ? S30-H ?

And for the Z432 ? PS30 and PS30-H (was there an official Z-G 432) ?

"if the HS30-H was the same as the HLS30 A or HLS30 AU" - WHAT ? Never heard of an 'A' or 'AU' (automatic ?)

Someone out there knows something.....

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Stephen,

It's up to the likes of us (or more likely - THEM with us posing our questions) that CAN clear up the myths, confusion, heresay, outright untruths, etc, always allowing for differing viewpoints but one can't argue when the truth is presented on a plate !

So here I go again (wanting to understand) :

JDM Fairlady 240Z VIN S30

JDM Fairlady 240Z-L VIN S30-S but second 'S' doesn't appear on firewall and tag stampings

JDM Fairlady 240Z-G VIN HS30-H but second 'H' doesn't appear on firewall and tag stampings

First 'H' in HS-30 refers to 2.4 litre engine !

Questions (still) - why are the first two above (S30 and S30-S) known as 240Zs if they don't have the 2.4 litre engine (no 'H' suffix) ?

Were there two Z-G models ? One a 2 litre and one a 2.4 ?

How does Nissan denote the 2 litre Z-G model ? S30-H ?

And for the Z432 ? PS30 and PS30-H (was there an official Z-G 432) ?

"if the HS30-H was the same as the HLS30 A or HLS30 AU" - WHAT ? Never heard of an 'A' or 'AU' (automatic ?)

Someone out there knows something.....

I will try and answer some of these questions.

JDM Fairlady Z VIN S30 (no 240 anywhere in the name of these cars - some call them 200z as they were fitted with L20a engines with carbs)

JDM Fairlady 240Z VIN HS30 (fitted with L24 engines)

JDM Fairlady Z VIN S31 (same body/tail lights dash as RS30=Export RHD 260Z but fitted with L20e EFI engine, my Dad has one of these)

There were S30-S and S30-L for the trim level and different standard options and as you have stated these were not on the firewall.

There was also the HS30-H the factory JDM Fairlady 240Z with G-Nose and overfenders. These Z were badges "Fairlady 240z" and are referred to as the 240ZG.

Then there is the PS30 the 432. I am sure someone else can let you know what the VIN is for a 432R as I would be guessing so I won't even try as I might get it wrong and add to the confussion.

Also all of the JDM were badged and sold as Nissan not Datsun as Datsun was the name use in the export markets. I recall in the 80's ads on TV promoting Nissan/Datsun then about 1 year later no more Datsun.

I hope this helps a bit.

PS I have never heard of the -A or AU either must be a US market thing.

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So here I go again (wanting to understand) :

JDM Fairlady 240Z VIN S30

JDM Fairlady 240Z-L VIN S30-S but second 'S' doesn't appear on firewall and tag stampings

JDM Fairlady 240Z-G VIN HS30-H but second 'H' doesn't appear on firewall and tag stampings

First 'H' in HS-30 refers to 2.4 litre engine !

Questions (still) - why are the first two above (S30 and S30-S) known as 240Zs if they don't have the 2.4 litre engine (no 'H' suffix) ?

Were there two Z-G models ? One a 2 litre and one a 2.4 ?

How does Nissan denote the 2 litre Z-G model ? S30-H ?

And for the Z432 ? PS30 and PS30-H (was there an official Z-G 432) ?

"if the HS30-H was the same as the HLS30 A or HLS30 AU" - WHAT ? Never heard of an 'A' or 'AU' (automatic ?)

Someone out there knows something.....

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHH!

Groundhog day. We've been over this what seems like thousands of times before. It must all show up if you use the SEARCH function and read, read, read.

JDM Fairlady 240Z VIN S30

JDM Fairlady 240Z-L VIN S30-S but second 'S' doesn't appear on firewall and tag stampings

NO!

Fairlady 240Z ( HS30-S model ) VIN prefix stamping = 'HS30'

Fairlady 240Z-L ( HS30 model ) VIN prefix stamping = 'HS30'

Questions (still) - why are the first two above (S30 and S30-S) known as 240Zs if they don't have the 2.4 litre engine (no 'H' suffix) ?

Were there two Z-G models ? One a 2 litre and one a 2.4 ?

How does Nissan denote the 2 litre Z-G model ? S30-H ?

The 'S30' and 'S30-S' were NOT '240Zs'. And stop mixing up suffixes with prefixes.

There was NO two litre "Z-G" model ( where the hell did you get THAT one from??? ).

And for the Z432 ? PS30 and PS30-H (was there an official Z-G 432) ?

Fairlady Z432 ( 'PS30' model ) firewall VIN stamp = 'PS30'.

Fairlady Z432-R ( 'PS30-SB' model ) firewall VIN stamp = 'PS30'.

THERE WAS NO "Z-G 432" ( arrrrrrggghhhh! ).

JDM Fairlady 240Z-G VIN HS30-H but second 'H' doesn't appear on firewall and tag stampings

First 'H' in HS-30 refers to 2.4 litre engine !

YES!

Bloody hell.

This is all written in the book that I know you have on your bookshelf, Sean. How can you make something already complicated even more complicated?

I have a headache now. :squareeye

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"if the HS30-H was the same as the HLS30 A or HLS30 AU" - WHAT ? Never heard of an 'A' or 'AU' (automatic ?)
PS I have never heard of the -A or AU either must be a US market thing.

I think you'll find clues in the front pages of your Factory workshop manuals and parts lists, thus:

*'HLS30-U' = "Left hand drive for USA Canada."

*'HLS30' = "Left hand drive."

*'HS30-U' = "Right hand drive."

There are lots of other suffixes that denote different specs and options, and these were mainly used internally within Nissan. The Japanese home market - with its many versions and options - was particularly complicated. These full 'Katashiki', 'Ruibetsu' and 'Shashu' codes were printed in the front of the Japanese factory workshop manuals, parts lists and the 'Service Shuho' model information booklets that were used to teach the Japanese dealerships about new models when they were introduced.

Here's a scan of one of the Japanese 'Katashiki' tables from October 1971, detailing the suffixes that were added to identify different model types and specs within the S30-series Z range. Remember that the TWELVE codes in the list are covered by firewall stamp VIN prefixes of just THREE types: 'S30', 'PS30' and 'HS30'...............

post-2116-14150795963125_thumb.jpg

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Sorry, been away from this site for some time and THAT book, isn't on my shelf, I lent it to the guy writing the French book on Zs !

So, I'm getting there (I think) :

JDM Fairlady Z model S30-S VIN S30

JDM Fairlady Z-L model S30 VIN S30

JDM Fairlady 240Z model HS30-S VIN HS30

JDM Fairlady 240Z-L model HS30 VIN HS30

JDM Fairlady 240Z-G model HS30-H VIN HS30

JDM Fairlady Z432 model PS30 VIN PS30

JDM Fairlady Z432-R model PS30-SB VIN PS30

Export market 240Z model HS30 VIN HS30 (RHD)

Export market 240Z model HLS30 VIN HLS30 (LHD)

Any other export models ? Z-Gs, Z432s etc ? Or are all the others personal imports ?

Sean

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So, I'm getting there (I think) :

JDM Fairlady Z model S30-S VIN S30

JDM Fairlady Z-L model S30 VIN S30

JDM Fairlady 240Z model HS30-S VIN HS30

JDM Fairlady 240Z-L model HS30 VIN HS30

JDM Fairlady 240Z-G model HS30-H VIN HS30

JDM Fairlady Z432 model PS30 VIN PS30

JDM Fairlady Z432-R model PS30-SB VIN PS30

YES!

Feels like its all starting to fall into place.

Export market 240Z model HS30 VIN HS30 (RHD)

Export market 240Z model HLS30 VIN HLS30 (LHD)

Basically, yes. But don't forget that these also have their own sub-divisions ( EG - USA / Canada LHD versions and 'rest-of-the-World' LHD version ).

Any other export models ? Z-Gs, Z432s etc ? Or are all the others personal imports ?

No official exports of 432, 432-R, 240ZG.

Of course, we have not mentioned any of the different Export-market 260Z and 280Z models ( although they will be pretty used to that, unfortunately ) or the A-S30 and S31 and their ilk.........

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  • 5 months later...

This thread does have value because it causes education to occur.

For info

HS30, HS30A, RS30 and RS30A are the codes supported by my third revision SEP 73 IPC. Only the HS30 and RS30 appear on the firewalls. The A is for automatic variant and highlights through the text.

My 2 C

Steve

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