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Emil

Racecar replica

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......The reasons for me choosing this particular car (only knowing the Fujimi version) was the pretty asymmetrical color scheme, the elegant look of a ZG (the 'normal' race version are too heavy for my taste) and the fact that it is an almost streetlegal version.

Hi Emil,

Yes, I know what you mean. That Fujimi box art is pretty special isn't it? Many people say that they don't like the looks of the ZG, but most of them have never set eyes on a Factory example in the metal ( and plastic LOL ).

.Strictly speaking adding a G-Nose to a Z makes it illegal by Dutch law, but that can be overcome by pointing out that it was an official Datsun streetversion and is allowed in the US.

Surely the fact that the 'HS30-H' Fairlady 240ZG was legal for street use in Japan ( as a Nissan Factory-supplied showroom model available to the Generel Public ) is more relevant? It was also JAF homologated, and the JAF homologation was recognised by the FIA - with the paperwork to back this up. There is also a good case for legal precedent of use in Europe ( my car ) and I can back you up if need be. My biggest problem was with the Insurance companies, who didn't have the ZG model on their computers. It took a lot of work to straighten that out and get covered.

I don't see how the USA comes into this, and the Fairlady 240ZG was never officially sold outside Japan anyway. Surely your best course of action is to link any replica to the precedent set by the Factory model, even in the case of bolt-on parts to a '280Z'?

But maybe you have some other examples of a racing versions with a nice colorscheme and a almost stock ZG look?

Yes, the first of the Factory race cars to use the ZG/ZR aero packages were more simple - and were closer to the roadgoing ZG looks-wise. But they only lasted a few months before evolving further - so pictures are more scarce.

I have a fair few though, and will scan some up for you. Maybe I'll send them to you direct.

Cheers,

Alan T.

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Alan, can you provide a brief synopsis of the mechanicals any of these cars. I appreciate all the pictures posted in this thread. Great cars!! Great info!

Thanks,

Chris

Hi Chris,

A brief synopsis? Whew, even that might take a bit of doing......

But essentially we are talking about a roughly two year period between the first of the aero parts equipped factory cars in late 1971 and the 'Type B' aero package equipped works cars illustrated by the red and white car now owned by NISMO.

Basically you can see all the stuff in the Sports Option lists, except that the true 'Works' parts had a little more work go into them.

Yanagida's car evolved from a carburated LR engine into ( eventually ) an injected LY 'Crossflow' with dry sump. Direct Drive ( Dogleg ) 5-speeds, R192 4-pinion LSD diff ( later an R200 ), vented MK63 four-pot brakes ( later cars had these on the rear as well ), Lobro-jointed driveshafts, 100 Litre fuel tanks ( 120 Litre later ), fully adjustable gas struts with camber-adjustable uniball top mounts, etc etc.

Some of the Works cars had fairly trick bodies, and were pretty light.

Getting down to fine details you have to talk about individual cars, and almost on a race-by-race basis. The specs changed very quickly.

The red and white car pictured at the 2002 NISMO Festival is fitted with an LY28 Crossflow running on 50PHH Mikunis ( it would originally have had Injection at some point ) and an Option Direct-Drive 5-speed.

The green / white / black car belonging to Terashima san ( a 240ZR replica ) is running a 3 Litre L-series with a trick Works head casting, Sports Opt crank, 50PHH Mikunis, dry sump, Option 2 Direct Drive 5-speed, and a whole host of genuine Works and Sports Option parts.

Hope that gives a little insight.

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Hope that gives a little insight.

Thanks Alan, much appreciated. I find it fascinating that they were using injection on some cars back then.

Can you share anything about the difference between LR and LY motors? I have heard of LY but the LR is new terminology to me.

Thanks,

Chris

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Can you share anything about the difference between LR and LY motors? I have heard of LY but the LR is new terminology to me.

'LR' is basically what the Works called the Factory race engines fitted with the 'normal' type ( non-Crossflow SOHC ) head castings. Again, specs were a moving target - but in essence it refers to a Factory race L-series 6 engine.

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It would be great if someone put together a book on the racing Z cars, particularly the Japanese ones with detailed information on factory variants, numbers made, etc. Not only for interests sake but also for a very practical reason. Which concerns the eligibility of certain variantions and equipment for historic based competition events.

For example, targa type events are very popular in Australia, quite a few S30's participate but it is very difficult to establish what they are eligible to use in the way of improvements over standard. Consequently they are often up against other optioned up cars but still do well, eg second in the very popular Classic class this year, around 130 cars in that class.

See the standard looking Donut King car, about half way down on the right, pic too big to display here :)

http://www.targa.org.au/Targa_2005/PrimaryMenu/News_and_Media/Image_Gallery/2005_Event_Images/2005_gallery_media_day5.php

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In the past there was confusion on Historic Categories.

CAMS has issued draft regulations for Touring Car Eligibility, which hopefully will stop this confusion, once and forever. They are seeking appropriate comment and suggestions.

FYI www.cams.com.au

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Alan,

The 280Z I have in mind for this project does not have a Dutch license yet. So my plan was to put a g-nose on it and get it registered as a 280ZG. There is a loophole in the law that allows for a so called 'Individual license'. That is used for cars that are not sold or have been sold in Europe. Two years ago I bought a 280Z 2+2 in Los Angeles and had to go that course. In the end it turned pretty simple, after spending almost a month to find the right department. We ended up creating a new legislation document for a 280Z 2+2 Automatic dated August 2003 based on my car. Now if anyone in The Netherlands imports a 280Z 2+2 it has to be the same as my car to get a license :laugh:. I wanted to do the same thing with this project. On the other hand if there is already a ZG in Europe (yours) that could be easier, but I assume you have a 240ZG?

I'd love to see some pictures from early Z-cars, maybe there is an ever prettier one.

BTW. Last night I send a mail to Fujimi with a question about the origin of this specific kit. Maybe I will get an usefull answer...

Emil

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HS30-H and Abas,

Yes this pic came from a thread on the uk Zwebsite. I emailed the starter of the thread 2-3 months after the thread started, just to see what was happening, heres the reply

"Hi Ian,

Sorry for the delay in replying,just got back from holiday,As far as I am aware the guy was not intending to sell and was moving it to a friend,s garage to restore.I spoke to the owner personally,a pleasant chap, but got the feeling the car would never go for restoring. Funnily enough I passed by just before I went away on holiday and the car hadn,t moved.He did want to meet with me though but as yet I haven,t spoke to him since.

Thanks Jim."

As for motorsport history, hillclimbing (to what level?) was mentioned on the thread, but I get the feeling there could be a bit more. Eric Neyerlin replied to the thread, which is http://www.zclub.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2000&page=1&pp=15 and yes, it has a sunroof.

Ian

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Alan (or anyone else caring to comment) in the case of R190 and R192 rear-ends what are they most like? Fitting one to an S30 requires the use of the original R180 intended axles/driveshaft or does it require the use of R200 specific ancilliary parts?

I ask because I recently saw an R190 LSD come up for sale and didn't know what to make of it. I'm sure you can fill the rest of us in perhaps?

Thanks as always,

-e

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The R190 / R192 fits anywhere the R180 fitted, and vice-versa. It takes the same mountings and same driveshafts as the R180.

R180 and R190 / R192 were essentially the same design internally. R200 was a fundamentally different design .

R190 / R192 is just like an R180 on viagra.

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Really? That easy Alan? Darn... I just passed one up. Well that will teach me...

Is it any easier to find rebuild parts for the R190 LSD than the old R180 LSD?

I'm thinking such items as clutch plate sets (the LSD is a clutch-typeright?), seals?

-e

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It would be great if someone put together a book on the racing Z cars, particularly the Japanese ones with detailed information on factory variants, numbers made, etc. Not only for interests sake but also for a very practical reason. Which concerns the eligibility of certain variantions and equipment for historic based competition events.

For example, targa type events are very popular in Australia, quite a few S30's participate but it is very difficult to establish what they are eligible to use in the way of improvements over standard. Consequently they are often up against other optioned up cars but still do well, eg second in the very popular Classic class this year, around 130 cars in that class.

See the standard looking Donut King car, about half way down on the right, pic too big to display here :)

http://www.targa.org.au/Targa_2005/PrimaryMenu/News_and_Media/Image_Gallery/2005_Event_Images/2005_gallery_media_day5.php

Yes that would be an excellent idea - targa is popular in NZ now with a number of S30 taking part also.

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EricB, some parts for a R190 are very difficult to find. There is one bearing in particular that is no longer available, replacement gear sets are extremely rare and rear covers and side plates are equally as difficult to find.

Les Cannaday bought the majority of R190 parts from Nissan USA when they discontinued all the parts for this differential.

If you have one that needs to be rebuilt you might spend more to fix it than what it would cost to buy an R180 with a Quaiffe. Another thing to keep in mind is that R190's came with gear sets that are not suited for street use. The most typical gear in an R190 is a 4.44 gear.

Bottom line is there are still parts available for R180's but since Nissan never supported R190's in the states (other than in of the comp catalog). Trying repair a broken R190 may not be possible any more.

John Coffey, is the last guy I know who was successful rebuilding an R190 about 2 years ago, and I bought that one from him. I use mine (I have 2) for my Vintage race car.

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Ron,

A 4.44 or 4.375 is exactly what I want for my car...

If you check the math you'll see that I am running an even higher rpm at cruising speed on the freeway right now with 4.11 gears and a loaner 4speed with a 1.0 ratio in 4th...

Getting my 5spd back from the rebuild shop and mating it with a 4.375 or 4.44 rear end would actually give me lower revs for the same speed...

:)

-e

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Eric,

I am familiar with the math...I assume that you are planning on running a ZX 5spd, and under those conditions a 4:11 or 4.44 works well on the street...

That still does not change the main issue...Parts for a 190 are hard to find and expensive.

Ron

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The R190 ( called 'R192' in Japan ) was fitted as standard equipment to PGC10 & KPGC10 Skyline GT-Rs and the vast majority of PS30-SB Fairlady Zs.

Quite a few of these cars ended up with full 4-pinion units over the years as the owners upgraded them.

Parts to rebuild these diffs are still available from specialists in Japan. Expensive, yes. Difficult to find, yes. Impossible, no.

But when R200 units in most ratios are still so easy to find, comparatively cheap and simple to rebuild / fettle and fairly easy to fit in place of an R180, it seems pointless to use an R190 / R192 unless forced to do so by competition rules and regulations.

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Aside from not knowing whether it would use R180 half-shafts/etc, I figured that since this was the first one I'd seen for sale in a long time (it was actually the stock rear end on a PGC10 that had been imported to the States) I did wonder how available parts would be for it. Thanks anyway guys.

-e

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Really?

G'day Eric, was the car a real PGC10? a 4door GT-R? or a GC10 Skyline GT? Could it have been an R192 rear end from a GT-R swapped into a 2000 GT that had the rest of its driveline beefed up? Hot "L" series etc?

By the way, the other GT-R lookalike KGC10 in Australia is up for sale. Nathan (owner) was using it more and more for circuit days and is worried as he gets faster the risk of bending it increases, so he now has a pretty little race setup 510 coupe for fun, track days, and feels 7 (it's not fair I know!) road cars is a bit much, so the Skyline is on the market down this way.

Oh, and ..arrr..sorry about all the question marks, I got 'em cheap down the markets and had to get rid of a few before they go off :laugh:

Cheers mate,

Jim.

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Jim

Apologies... Yes it was more than likely a GC10 made up to look like a PGC10.

As you stated hopped up L series.

-e

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Alan,

I have been diging around in the law books and did some asking, and it seems that the rules for pre 1979 cars are not that strict. So I could make my car look like Yanagida's (the pictures you posted) and get it street legal. Would you be willing to assist me in making a 'shopping list', locating the parts I need, and in general share your knowledge of these Nissan works racers?

Kind regards

Emil

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i agree that someone should put together a book.... man, what a read that would be....
I'd buy it. Hey Alan got some spare time? Alan I am also curious about the avatar pic you have.

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Emil,

Let's talk about this in PMs and emails.

jmark,

My current avatar image depicts SCCN works driver Moto Kitano crossing the finish line of the "Race De Nippon" event, held on 12th April 1970, in his SCCN works Fairlady Z432-R. He shared the car with fellow SCCN works driver Masahiro Hasemi, and they took pole position and won the race overall as well as their GTS class.

This was the first major race win for the S30-series Z car worldwide, I believe.

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Wow - interesting! I have the bill of sale for 26th and as a time reference, she was delivered in May of 1970. Appears as though we were winning races just about the time we were hitting the streets in America.

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Emil,

Let's talk about this in PMs and emails.

jmark,

My current avatar image depicts SCCN works driver Moto Kitano crossing the finish line of the "Race De Nippon" event, held on 12th April 1970, in his SCCN works Fairlady Z432-R. He shared the car with fellow SCCN works driver Masahiro Hasemi, and they took pole position and won the race overall as well as their GTS class.

This was the first major race win for the S30-series Z car worldwide, I believe.

Thanks Alan. I guess that is the same Hasemi that makes performance parts today. I have been reading some S30 history and see where the 240Z competed at Le Mans.

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