26th-Z

Carl, I disagree with you. I thought we were talking about #1 car values and your example is not a #1 car. No matter. I also disagree with you about Black Pearls being sold without the stripes. If what you say is correct, then ZCCA rules would indicate that the stripes as a dealer installed feature would not be stock. Same apply for the ZZap? So back by popular demand is the ultimate "parts in the box" find of the century. Authentic owner installed. Crack Pipe In The Glove Box

Edit: If the car is in need of the parts listed, why are they not on the car? I think he should have the Black Pearl stripes painted on the car and be done with it!

You got me! (from the battle line of psychotic automotive restoration) I'm sitting here reading the e-mail notice of Mike's post and thinking; "well that's what came with 27"??!!!?!!?? "What the hell is he talking about?" Ok....make me laugh! The point I was trying to make was that it is not wise to buy a valuable car that happens to be in boxes. Or The value of the car is the car, not a dissassembled car. Or should I say; "That's what a wise person would tell you". I know of two Lotus's up in Clearwater - completely apart - that I would buy. But I have an excuse. I'm sick. You should see what came in the morning e-mail. A real test of my illness. Then there is the fire truck on eBay...and during that conversation, I found a 1936 / 1937 Datsun (perhaps Datson?) 2-door roadster for sale. Oh, I'm all ate up! As far as 27 is concerned, the spare parts thing didn't make the deal for me. And I didn't pay a lot of money for the Princess either. But you get burned on the stuff that is in the box. 27 came with a grill...for a 260Z. The seats are no good. I ended up buying another deck lid. Not to diss "ricksaia", but lets say you are looking at a car and "Oh, BTW, the original engine is over there and is included". You think; "oh good, I can make this car matching numbers". You get it all home and find a burned piston and scored block. I guess the thing to say is that the parts that came with 27 just made the rust taste sweeter.

Carl, I think your #1 description sounds more like the "high retail" and "good to excellent" condition. In that case, I would refer you to the Wall Street Journal and NADA guides. A 1970 model year with only 57,000 miles would be well past the $15,000 point. Just look at what happened to Burt's car. In my opinion, "here's the original engine sitting on the floor over here" has no value at all. Maybe tempting value, but parts in a box have no value to the sale of a car.

Really good article in Hemmings Motor News, December 2004, Richard Lentinello, page 58, about the meaning of "restored". In November, Richard discussed "original". Must reading for an appreciation of how strick and conservative these words are.

(Months later, lots of beer consumed, much more knowledge) Yes! There IS such a thing as Z Car Club Association judging standards. www.zcca.org

I think this is a BRE spook.

Oh that engine is an inspiration! I don't think these die-cast guys have any appreciation for real detail ;-) The battery picture is a scan from the parts catalog. No idea on color, but if you painted the text white on a black battery, I wouldn't bitch. Are you doing one of those large scale Tamiya ZG kits? I have probably a dozen different kits in the 1:24 scale? - Saving them for my days in the retirement home!

This is probably the best picture I have. Remember that the battery had a plastic cover on it with a yellow instructional decal. Have fun with that model!

Have you caught the latest buzzword from the collector car / auction crowd? “resto-mod”. Flip over to Jerry Purcell’s thread; “Your Thoughts Wanted; Preservation / Restoration”. “Resto-mod” is a term that can be applied here as well. One of the reasons I took on this subject has something to do with a statement I made earlier in this thread having to do with Vintage Zs being a benchmark restoration. I’m sticking to that statement and find the “resto-mod” expression an interesting word in the context of Vintage Zs. But lets talk about the Vintage Z Launch Rally held at Nissan USA corporate headquarters in Carson, California, May 3, 1997. The Vintage Z Quality Control Launch Rally was the introduction party and publicity “kickoff” for the Z Restoration Program and introduced the Z-Store and the Vintage Zs. It was a picnic, an exhibition, a car show and a rally / parade through the streets of Los Angeles. Nissan had decided to approach their future with the past. The 300Zx had been discontinued in 1996 and Nissan was without a sports car flagship that they were so famous for. The Z car had come from an affordable sports car that delivered incredible performance to an expensive luxurious super car. It had transcended its original market niche and with buyer focus shifting to minivans and SUVs, the Z lost popular buying potential through both price and market niche. Yet there was a ground swell of Z enthusiast support and outcry of despair for the loss of the most popular and fastest selling sports car of all time. Nissan marketing reacted and saw an opportunity; “With the End of an Era Comes the Birth of a Legend”. The legendary 240Z was to return. The Z Store program was announced on November 20, 1996; “…an innovative marketing program…to demonstrate our heritage and prove our commitment to the consumer by offering reconditioned Z-cars – a model line that is legendary in the automotive world”. “We are really excited about this program because it allows us to offer consumers what they are requesting in an imaginative new way”. “With Z-car production for the United States recently drawing to a close, Nissan is answering the call from enthusiasts and Z-car aficionados. We are proud of our roots and are demonstrating this through our Z Store program.” “Throughout the lifetime of the Z car, we witnessed a strong commitment to the car from enthusiasts and ‘Z-Zealots’ because of its illustrious style and performance. We are proud that we can continue this commitment”.* Initially the event was anticipated for an earlier date (late 1996 or early 1997), but delays in completing Vintage Zs and orchestrating the event with local Z clubs pushed the activities to May. As the planning progressed the event schedule grew larger, causing further difficulties and coordination. One magazine article sites the large turnout at the Motorsport Auto event a few weeks earlier as influencing plans to be expanded. Finally, in early spring, the commitment was made and invitations were sent out. “This is your invitation to be part of automotive history and witness the rebirth of the Z”. A full day of activities was planned. Beginning with registration at 8:30 in the morning, the entertainment lasted until 6:00 in the afternoon. The registration form was comprehensive, tracking ownership, club participation, and model type. And Nissan had arranged for a grand party encompassing approximately three acres of car show and festivities! The event included a road rally / poker run, Vintage Z displays, a “Best Original” and “Best of Show car contest, merchandise displays, and food, beverages, and entertainment. The final Nissan 300Zx was on display as were several vintage Datsuns contributed by Nissan, Nissan employees, and Les Cannaday. Inside the corporate headquarters lobby, a number of “Dream Garage” vehicles were on display. A band played period ‘70s cover songs throughout the afternoon. It was a lovely sunny day and a slight breeze blew in from the West. The picnic area was set with a number of umbrella tables and colorful red and yellow balloons fluttered in the breeze. A little after 1:00, the awards presentations began. Although there were minor changes to the agenda when it was announced that Yutaka Katayama would attend, the schedule began with a car show and judging early in the morning. Bill Halsey of Z Owners Northern California took top honors for “Most Original 240Z”. The Rally / Poker Run lasted approximately two hours with over 150 cars in participation followed by an awards presentation, announcements and comments. The completed Vintage Zs were formally presented to the representing Z-Store dealers. The Z-Store program was discussed indicating that certified 1990 – 1996 300ZX cars were already on sale as phase 1 of the program. Phase 2 was the introduction of the Vintage Zs and they were offered for just under $25,000 that day. During the presentations hosted by Tom Orbe, Vice President of Nissan Marketing (NMC USA), Mr. K was introduced and given a gift of a photo album reflecting on his years with Nissan USA. Mr. K gave a short speech and discussed his feelings about his test drive in the Vintage Z; “smooth acceleration and comfortable ride”. He described the cars as “refurbished” and used a “VZ” abbreviation from his notes during his speech. Introductions of key people in the program were made including Pierre Perot. Dale Ishimoto, the “Hollywood Mr. K” was also introduced complete with the dog from the Dream Garage commercial. The first few Vintage Zs were just complete by the time of the Rally. The delay situation is reflected in the invitation with an explanation that the Quality Control Launch Rally was actually a component of the Nissan program of quality control. Announcing that Vintage Zs would be sold with a 12,000 mile / 12 month bumper-to-bumper warranty, the Rally was presented as the final step in the extensive inspection and quality process; an extended road test. Notable racing legends including John Morton and members of the automotive press were invited to participate and test drive the cars. To my best understanding, five Vintage Zs were available at the Rally. Two were automatics. Two were the typically seen silver cars. As the restoration process was in full progress, an extensive display was prepared including a chassis on a rotisserie and a chassis covered in protective foam padding exclusively made for the program. Engines were on display stands and component parts were on display. The program was a large success for Nissan USA Marketing. Within 24 days, Nissan marketing estimated an audience reach of over 84,000,000 people as a result of the publicity the Rally generated. Nissan figures estimate over 59 “news coverage” references including approximately 25 television news broadcasts and 6 major automotive publications. The Z Restoration Program was a major automotive news as well as corporate news topic for the moment. And if I may conclude with my own speculation….this is where I think the F word began!!!

Oh! I was just fool'in around. I love car guys. They all call each other when they get the bug as though we are some AA sponsor or something. "So...you're getting on an airplane to go look at a car?" "Gonna blow off work on Monday so you can get some photographs of it"? "Sounds like a good idea to me"! We are all very sick people.

Thanks Alfadog! What a great link! Printed the whole thing out! Keep your fingers crossed. The "serious man" is going after the fire truck. Couple of e-mails from him this morning. You gotta love car collectors.

A brief update before I post some more this weekend... The research is going well and several contributors have sent me great stuff. Thanks to MikeW, 240 in OZ, and HS30-H. The working bibliography has now grown to twelve Nissan documents and twenty-six independent magazine and newsletter articles including three from Japan and one from Australia. There are notes from several telephone conversations as well. Quite a bit of information to sort through! Stay tuned. I'll be writing more shortly.

Here are some more pictures for you. The peach colored one is a combined chassis and engine 1971. The yellow colored manual is a later 1970 publication and it is chassis only. The light green colored one is what a 1970 engine manual would look like. This one happens to be a 1969 publication. The 1969 manuals are the same color, they have a printing date on them, the covers are a pebble textured paper, and they are three-hole punched. To the best of my knowledge all the later manual coverss are printed on a smooth paper and are not punched. I will sell the '71 manual for $60 if anyone is interested. IT is in A+ shape. I also have a couple A- 1970 chassis manuals I would sell for $45 each.

Yea! I had just unpacked them and a friend said I should take a picture. You know....the car really IS as bad as it looks. Give me time. It's going to be a while.

Nawww Vicky, If James is opening up the hatch by bending the roof back, he's got me beat hands down. Princess 27 is holding up pretty well. Resting comfortably in a tent in my back yard. The spare parts sound very nice. Her Holyness

That was great thread, Alfadog!!! Gave me a big laugh. Thanks

I think there is the obvious and then there are all the rest. We might make a game of deciding who is best amongst all the rest. That's cool. Speed has the right idea. Who is best of all the rest!!!

Hey Rick Bolus, Are you "Bolus and Snopes" from the good old days? "Vintage Motorsport" arrived in the mail today. The Barrett-Jackson flyer "Sneak Preview" shows this Z to be auctioned at the Scottsdale auction January 25th- 30th.

TomoHawk, I'll bet the best information would come directly from the original NMC USA dealer. Nissan may be able to tell you what dealer your car went to. Then trace it that way. Best of luck.

Thanks DatsunZGuy! The article actually conveys some nice information for me. For instance, reference has been made to the first few cars completed dedicated as "press" cars - examples to be reviewed and test driven by the automotive press for publicity purposes. This article discusses a "gray" colored car (probably silver) and some of the other press photos I have depict a 920 gold car. Interesting. So I go back to mperdue's paint color site http://datsunprojects.org/zpaintcodes/ to confirm the color number and look what I find! Check out he Vintage Z sticker in the quarter window. This was taken in Richardson, Texas according to Mike. Thanks Mike. The article was completed later in the program (November 1997) and indicates a number of cars dedicated to the program at 150. This number may have been the number of cars Nissan actually bought. Interesting. The article is not the most complimentary description and it is a good example of the different thoughts we are going to see about the program. There were and are today many different conversations about the cars and the program. Many thanks for your contribution.

That's what I heard, Tomohawk. I hope everyone is enjoying this as much as I am. Special greetings to 240 in OZ! Here are some of the cars that are listed on the VZ car register Carl set up. Enjoy

Sorry about the picture quality, everyone. This is the best I can do with what I have. I anticipate improvement. Carl, Lets post the quotes so everyone knows what we are talking about. These are copyright "Fairlady Z Story" (translation, Brian Long) Miki Press. In terms of "roots", the first quote eludes to the importance of the 25th National Convention in Atlanta. The second quote eludes to the importance of what now probably was Mike Taylor's visit. I can easily understand how the event would be described by Katayama san as such. The importance of these two events cannot be overlooked, however interpreted. They represent the ground swell of enthusiast response to Nissan's announcement of terminating the Z. They represent the involvement of Yutaka Katayama after his retirement, suggesting his influence in what was then future planning of the Z car. Thanks for that l o n g post. I think we are on the same page. Thanks ( wow, serious thanks, WAY TO GO) for creating the VZCR. I'll help you fill in some spots.

I think this is the green automatic which would put it low on the 0 - some40 list. This is an ABC channel 7 interview with Pierre on May 3, 1997 at the Vintage Z Rally. The Z is an automatic. Another automatic at the Rally was this gold one. It sold on eBay about 9 months ago. Remember Carl? I sent you an e-mail saying we thought there was only one A/T car? Before you respond that it is Jim's, I don't think so. Jim's has a distinguishing mark that is not on this car as far as I can tell.