Paulytunes

Update: so I tested the temperature transmitter. It has the appropriate resistance for the coolant temperature. However, when I test the connection pins at the wiring harness, I get zero continuity. This is for pins 6 and 8, 7 and 8, 8 and 9, and pin 13 and ground. This leads me to believe that maybe the wiring harness is possibly bad. Could I have ruined the whole harness when I unintentionally gave the lower thermostat housing wiring connections a coolant shower and blew out my fusible links? If so, I feel like an idiot and that one's partially on me. Also partially on whichever previous owner decided to over bore the thermostat bolt, and Nissan for using non-waterproof electrical connections under a gasketed connections for coolant. 🤦‍♂️

Thanks! I will test the resistance at the ECU next. I'll be looking for a higher resistance reading since it is starting to get cooler here and my garage is not insulated.

That's what I was afraid of - the Fast EFI almost looks too good to be true. I also really don't want to stray too far away from stock if I can help it.

So I was running fine through most of the summer, until mid-August when one of the connections to the water temperature sensors broke while I was on my way to support a Cub Scouts event and show the kids my 280Z. Since I was going to be sidelined for awhile waiting for the new switch to arrive from Z Car Depot, I decided now would be a good time to flush out the coolant, replace the thermostat, etc. No good deed goes unpunished. I found one of the thermostat lower housing bolt holes to be over-bored and filled with thread sealer: Of course I discovered this after I had reconnected everything, got my 280Z to start, and then when the T-stat opened, it showered the connections and proceeded to cause a short and burned up my fusible links. So, I ended up ordering a new fusible links, a lower housing, and other parts and again was waiting for them to arrive. I got everything back together and it started but was really rough. I thought maybe I had swapped the thermo-time switch and water temperature sensor connections, but after tracing the wires back using the FSM and 1976 wiring diagram, I verified all was connected as it should be. When the engine is cold, it will start but idle really rough then eventually dies after a minute or two or applying throttle. I did the light test today from page EF-51 of the 1976 FSM, and I notice that there is no difference in brightness from the flashes of the light when cranking when the cold start valve is connected and removed. This was witnessed on the No.1 and No.4 injector connections, as the FSM instructs. The FSM states "if the lamp does not flash, or if the lamp does not become brighter when the cooling water temperature sensor harness connector is removed, it indicates that the control unit is faulty. Replace the control unit, and carry out the inspection again as described above." So my questions are: 1. Is there any other quick ways that I can determine that my ECU has failed. 2. Assuming I have a bad ECU, what is the reliability of used ECUs? Are they similar to the Transistor Ignition Unit where a used one that I find (I assume there is no more NOS available from Nissan) will be living on borrowed time and I could expect to have the same sort of failure at any given time, whether it is days, months, or years down the road? 3. If #2 is true and used ECUs will fail, has anyone tried the FAST EFI ($1,600) or other more reliable/modern fuel injection system that can chime in on their experience and whether this is a recommended option or not? Thanks in advance for any input you may have and thanks for reading.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I'll add that I think the S30's are very well engineered cars that can be worked on with a good set of metric tools and without many specialized tools. My 280Z also doesn't generate the same level of frustration of other older cars that I have owned. Caution: I may be biased and have an unnatural love for Japanese cars. There's no cost cutting measures that are prevalent in American cars (nothing frustrates me more than finding something stupid, like a $75 relay buried behind a dashboard assembly or door handles that just fatigue and break repeatedly, or overheating problems that never go away), no inherent complexity or need for special tools like German cars require, or reliability issues with other European makes. The only issues I have found is that my clumsy, large American hands are often too big to fit in small spaces. I think I said it before, but Japanese cars built up to around the mid-1990's were probably the pinnacle of automotive engineering, and that likely started somewhere around the time of the S30. Unfortunately, this golden age ended in before the new millennium, when Japan started playing the same game that all the other manufacturers do now, with impossibly difficult maintenance items, needless plastic and foam rubber coverings in the engine bay, technology that becomes obsolete in a few years, and components with limited lifespans only designed to last until the warranty expires. It is a joy to open the hood of the 280Z and just look at the L-series inline 6. I also love explaining to my kids or whoever else will listen what each component does and how it functions. I have become somewhat of a self-taught expert, using my mechanical aptitude, reading the factory service manual and fuel injection bible, and also with the help of the great members and resources of this forum. They no longer make cars like the S30 and never will again, which is why I intend to keep mine alive and driving for as long as I am able, as well as trying to cultivate and grow interest with my kids. The next generation will likely not understand how to drive a car with a manual transmission, or without backup cameras, blind spot warning lights, lane assist, traction control, power steering, and all the other electronic nannies that are present on modern cars.

So not the triumphant update that I was hoping to write this evening, but I did get closer to resolving my fueling issues. I'm pretty sure I have said it before, but I do absolutely love this site and all the helpful members. I was able to obtain a Nissan fuel pump and damper from a fellow member here that no longer needed the setup. This made me extremely happy, as I want to keep my 280Z as close to stock as possible, and I did discover a problem with my damper. I installed the new-to-me fuel pump on Friday and was able to test start the car on Saturday. It only took a few seconds to start! After warming up, a few throttle pushes to redline, and I had no more hesitation, and fuel supply pressure was right where it was supposed to be around ~35-36 PSIG. I think my whole neighborhood heard my shouts of jubilation. I then went to the rear of the car to check for leaks and found a steady stream dripping from above the fuel pump and into my bucket. I shut the car off and found my damper to be leaking. Luckily, I had the replacement one on hand, so I had to disassemble everything and install the other damper. I suspect my existing damper was on its way out, and the increased pressure from the factory pump (remember the aftermarket one that was installed by a PO registered around 12 PSIG less than OEM) blew a seal or something out? Anyway, everything is back together, but I am now waiting on an appropriate fuel line clamp at the pump discharge (PO used the wrong type and all the spare correct ones I have are too small), which should be here tomorrow.

I certainly had a Guardian Angel watching over me that night. Not that it makes it any better, but there was about 5 gallons of gas in the tank at the time of the incident.

Glad you made it home safe. That sucks to have two incidents like that in one day. Maybe you were just not meant to be at that Volvo meet.

So, today was a comedy of errors. I removed the pre-filter and tried to prime the new fuel pump again. No fuel flow came out of the discharge. Just for shits and grins, I decided to reinstall the old pump to make sure that I wasn't screwing something up. The old pump re-primed without issue and within a few seconds. It seems likely that I was sent a defective fuel pump. Around this time, my wife wants to go out to dinner, so I set the old pump on the ledge of the bucket I was using to catch the fuel from my disconnection and reconnection activities and go to wash up so that I can go to dinner with my wife and kids without reeking of gasoline. We get to dinner, and my son says he feels dehydrated and not well. Just as we are about to get seated, he gets as pale as a ghost, and my wife, with her mother's ESP/intuition/sixth sense, ushers him out the door, where he proceeds to vomit at the entrance of the restaurant. Needless to say, we came home. Upon opening the garage door, we discover this: The fuel pump had fallen off the bucket ledge (probably when we closed the garage door or sometime there about), into the bucket, and proceeded to drain my tank into the bucket and then slightly overfilling on to the garage floor and scrap cardboard that I was using for minor fluid spills. I think I can safely rule out that there is any issue within the tank. 🤞 To top it all off, when we went inside, our dog was excited and choking on something she decided to chew on while we were out. She cleared it and was okay after a few scary seconds. This is certainly a night I won't forget anytime soon! 🤣 After spending the better part of the evening cleaning up the garage and trying to get rid of the gasoline odors, I came to the realization that I really want a lift and I am back in the market for a fuel pump.

This was my first attempt at getting it to fit into the existing bracket.

The new one is an Autobest F4239 E8228. It has a straight discharge instead of the 90-degree upwards discharge. I probably should have looked a little closer before purchasing and trusting the "will fit your vehicle" confirmation on Amazon.

I checked both orientations, no flow through the pump after multiple attempts. I wired it up to match the replacement pump, 1976 wiring diagram, and the FSM - green is positive, grey/black is negative. I verified the pump is getting power. Fuel does seem to flow pretty freely out of the hose when I disconnect the prefilter. After thinking about it, I am wondering if the issue may be the prefilter. I may just connect the outlet hose to the pump inlet and see if that works. The pump installation instructions say to prime it by starting the car without the pump outlet open and verify fuel flow out of the pump discharge.

I forgot to mention that the way I got it to start again was with some quick start fluid sprayed into the air intake.

Bumping this thread back up because my 280Z is now in a non-running state and this time, I think it is a fuel issue. All was going well until about a week before Memorial Day. I was noticing a whine coming from the rear of the car. I was planning on taking the car to a car show at work in late May and headed out to take a Friday evening drive, with plans to prep it for the show over the weekend. Well, I never made it out of the driveway. The car started to run rough and then stalled. I tried to start it again, and it would first sputter, then start, run rough, then die. Eventually it would just crank and crank and crank and nothing. I went through the fuel injection bible religiously, tested for spark, injectors, relays, ECU, etc. All of this troubleshooting ruled out everything but the fuel delivery/pumping. I bought and installed a pressure gauge after the engine fuel filter, and after the car sat for awhile, I got it to start again. Fuel pressure at the filter discharge is ~25 to 26 PSIG, about 10 PSIG less of where it should be. "Fuel pump, it's gotta be that," or so I thought. Well, upon inspection, the installed pump is an aftermarket one (a Carter 6203BE, 150421A-12). Online research indicates that this pump is rated for half the flow rate of the stock 280Z, and applications are typical for many vintage European cars (BMW, Jaguar, Triumph, Fiat, Lancia, Eagle Renault). It was also pretty poorly installed in the original bracket, so it could bang around every time I encountered a bump. One of the previous owners also installed the wrong type of fuel hose clamps. Ugh. So I decide to buy an aftermarket pump that has the right flow rate and will fit. Shocker: It doesn't without significant line rework. While I was at it, I decided to install a pre-filter (the Fram see-thru one) from the tank the to suction line of the pump. After a few gasoline showers, and thinking all is good to go, I install everything back and try to start it up. One problem: Gas isn't getting to the replacement pump. I also notice that the pre-filter is only about half full of gasoline. Shouldn't it be fully flooded? Despite multiple attempts and adding about 3 additional gallons of gas to the tank, I cannot get the new pump to prime. I am now wondering if there's something (rust or delaminated coating blocking the tank outlet. Has anyone had a similar experience? Am I heading down the road to a new gas tank?

I chatted a bit with you too. It was nice to meet you in person and talk about Z’s. The work you’ve done is impressive, especially with the Volvo a/c, and I like the idea of putting the 350Z seats in the 280Z. I have a 350Z seat on my racing simulator at home and it is pretty comfortable, and my Datsun driver seat is ripped, so you never know… I would have chatted longer, but my son was getting a little antsy. The attention span of an almost 10 year old is only so long. We will be back next year, and if I can get my floors acceptably repaired maybe I’ll even bring my 280Z.

The point I was trying to get across is that BaT, along with the collector car market, has evolved. I remember a few years back (before COVID and before BaT was as well known), you could find a large volume of classic Japanese cars for around $10K. Now that it has become more notorious, I am sure there are a lot more in the car collector business that are bidding on and buying cars on the site, and then reselling in the more traditional markets. It has become much harder for the first time buyer of a classic car to get a good deal. There's not necessarily anything wrong with that, that's just the way it is now. I do enjoy reading the listings and fantasizing sometimes, but that's likely all it will ever amount to for me now. Your experience may be different. Hell, I remember back in the early 2000's, when the classic car bug bit one of my friends and coworkers and he decided to buy a Porsche 914 on eBay from a listing in Chicago. I said, "Great, when are you going to book a flight and go look at it?" His response was, "Paul, there's no need to, the guy posted 100 photos. I'm going to buy it and have it shipped here." I thought he was crazy at the time! Well, needless to say, the car had a lot more undisclosed issues and rust than advertised and he ended up buying a second 914 as a donor car. Sadly, I don't think the project(s) were ever completed. Anyway, I digress. I think the only time I would consider buying a car on BaT would be if I was really familiar with the make and knew what to look for and what questions to ask during the bid. Or if I won the lottery, suddenly had a huge windfall of disposable income, and happened to see a dream car (Ferrari 288 GTO, BMW M1, Porsche 959) on BaT. I'd also have a healthy balance set aside for any needed repairs not readily disclosed at the listing.

I think you hit the nail on the head. That is what the site has evolved into since COVID and now that everyone knows about it. I lost a bid on a 280Z on BaT a few years back, but I don't think I would bid on a car there now. I would be curious to know the demographics of the winning bidders. How many are car people who want a hobby car, serious car collectors, millionaires who like to burn money frivolously, and/or dealers hoping to make a profit? We will probably never know, because BaT may not collect that information, or if they have it make it public. Still, I do enjoy browsing and looking at the cars up for auction, for a car lover like me it is like automotive porn.

Went to the Philly Auto Show today and happened to see this car live and in the flesh at the Back in the Day Way Exhibit: 1977 Datsun 280Z | Classic Auto Mall Probably was the highlight of the trip for me and favorite vehicle there, whereas my son's was the Rock's MXT Truck from "The Fate of the Furious." The 280Z looks like it was local to the DC area (there is a Fort Belvoir, VA sticker on the bumper). If that's the case, I would suspect there is some rust hiding underneath that undercoating and would want to lift up the carpets to see the floors before buying. The asking price is a little eyewatering too, especially for a survivor and not yet completely restored 280Z. Makes me feel a little better about having to put money into mine to fix my rust problems, especially if they do get the asking price.

Cool find! Those are probably very well made and will likely last forever as long as you keep them away from water!

My resolution is to get my rusty floors replaced and drive more.

Looks like I have got a real project on my hands! I will take a look.

I thought I saw some that were like this on one of the Z specific websites. I'll look again. Even still, this is troublesome if the passenger rail repair was done by the same guy who put in the coffee cans and Bondo and then covered it with new tar mat and called it a day. As Warrant Officer Ripley says, "Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

Thanks. I feel like it is peeling back an onion, the more I dig, the more I find. Even where the metal is good, it seems somewhat thin and bendable now all of the fill material has been ground away. I certainly did not expect the hole in the passenger side to be that large, or the rivet patch on the driver side to be that big. SMH. Oh well. I feel like Tyler Hoover, my car is giving me an extensive bill for the holidays.

I've been working at grinding down the inside of the floor over the past few weeks when I have had some free time. Driver Side: The rail looks to be original but bent in a few places. It no longer meets the floor in the rear. In the front, the floor looks like it was cut away in the front and a new piece of metal was riveted to the original floor that remains. The bad areas of the floor are in the front, and along the frame rail, there are perforations near the seat rails too. The floor aft of the seam seal is all solid - no visible rust or corrosion. The bottom of the rail appears to be corrosion free (hard to tell in the photos), but the inner front side looks deteriorated, I'm concerned that if I grind it or poke at it, it may just flake away. Passenger Side: The frame rail was replaced by a previous owner. You can see areas where it has been bolted in. As far as I know, this was not stock (feel free to correct me if I am wrong). It looks beefier too, like some of the replacement rails (maybe from Dragon Z?) I saw online. Most of the rust damage here was along the run of the frame rail, and this is where one of the previous owners performed the coffee can, rubber, bondo non-welded repairs. It is the worst at the front, continues along the rail until it stops before the seat rail. There is also a pretty substantial hole that was filled in with Bondo. Note to self - next time try to poke it out instead of grinding to minimize the dust. So I'm pondering the best course of action. I want to repair it correctly, which means some amount of welding. I don't know that the driver side frame rail can be easily reattached to the floor, so maybe I should just invest in a new driver side frame rail? Is there a rule of thumb as far when the whole floor should be replaced versus if cutting out the damaged areas and patching in new sheet metal will suffice?

Thanks again for posting these, they are indeed mesmerizing, and it is fascinating watching a true craftsman perform. Although, it is going to have a negative effect on the repairs that I do myself, because he's in a completely different league, I'm not worthy! Also, I just want to spend time with the tools he has at his disposal, especially the sandblaster.