stevef1972z

I sat down and looked at the problems, possible fixes, costs, and my desire for the car. I then went through and read all of the comments and ideas. Thank you all for your input and ideas. Everything from cut and run to faint heart never won fare maiden! I expect no less from such a wide ranging and educated board. The car is just a 72, #77850 made 5/72. So really it isnt anything that special. Average price on the car is not that high, its not like they are selling like hotcakes at Barrett Jackson! So value wise unless I am willing to put $10,000 in all original parts its really not worth much more than the sticker when new (and I have that sticker, and the cancled check that bought it!) I sold my 1979 T top Z28 after the comments of GM CEO, I wanted away from the product and the Street Stip branch of the hobby. I bought the 240 because it had been a long time since I owned a GT car. My intent was a fun to drive sport GT that didnt look like anything else on the lot. The Z has a good performance history and a nice look. Weighing all of this, and the fact that my ego is severly bruised by the car, I decided to fix it. My ego will not let me take it someplace and have it done, I never have with any other car, except to get certified saftey equipment put in. So, smart or not, I will make the car what I want it to be. I am making the templates to build the new pieces to replace the frame section and part of the inner fender. I have the floor pans I had bent to fit what I had removed, and the Bad Dog rail for the floor support. This keeps the costs down, and gets the car back into driving condition. After that, it is upgrading the systems to some more modern equipment for ease of use and correcting some factory faults. If I fail, then you guys will have first crack at the large assortment of solid parts on the car, if I suceed, then I get my fun to drive GT! I will let you know how it goes.

I have been under the car all day. Cutting, grinding and poking on the rust trying to get enough of it cleaned up to make a decision. It is still to early to tell. It looks like the rust extends back to the firewall from the T/C mount but only forward about 4 inches. The rest of the rail forward appears solid. Replacing a section may be just as difficult as replacing the entire piece. Once I have it all clean I can have a better idea of what to do. I am still very much up in the air about this. I will post more photos after it is cleaned up and will take some hints and ideas from the board. I consider myself a very good mechanic, I have a wide range of tools and experience using all of them. I have MIG, air tools (nibblers, die grinders, cut off tools, impacts, etc.) and a large assortment of hand tools. Under the hood and trans I am comfortable. Body skills are average, maybe even a touch below, and I am not a master welder, I can run a bead and spot weld, but nothing special. I have a double long extra wide one bay garage to work with and that is it. Figured this info would help with the advice. Floor board type repairs dont scare me, boxing a frame is something I have done before, but would not weld my own roll cages for NHRA inspection. I have average fabrication skills, brackets, crossmember type work. Replacing the frame seems above those skill levels. What do you think? Honestly.

After a few months, hows the gas smell?

Just dont know what to do here at all, I guess I cant hurt it anymore if I try to fix it myself, since its already sneaking up on the bone yard. I am going to mess with it some this weekend, since it is going to SNOW this weekend here near St. Louis. I am just so fustrated right now. Hate to have to part it out, wont spend to have a shop do it (good money after bad) and right at the edge of my skill and comfort level. What to do what to do???

Great progress you are making solid headway!

Oh yeah..Illinois..where our govenors make the license plates!!

Welcome from yet another Steve! Good luck on your hunt, read about the problem areas on the cars here using the search function and words like rust and floor and framerail. Education will keep you from getting in over your head, I am on tip toes with mine!

Hang in there and follow the doctors advice on this. I see this almost every day and people often try to do too much too soon and end up unable to do anything. Try not to worry about what is going on until after the images are back and you and the doctor come up with a plan of action. If you do not like the plan, get a second opinion if you can to see if they match up. Getting healthy is a lot like tracing down a problem in the car. Dont go throwing parts and easy fixes at it. Take the time, do some research, gather the information, and then go about fixing the problem.

Could just be its getting nicer and people are able to start tinkering and thinking about getting back on the road, thats where I was until I ran into my front frame rail issue.

I couldnt agree more. I drove my Midget from Seatle to St. Louis on multiple occassions and had years of good service from it. Not that I am saying in any way the it is a better car in some kind of Ford vs. Chevy discussion, it was a dependable car when restored, in its way so was my Opel and the 65 6 cylinder Mustang. It was easier to restore the MG and cheaper due to parts availability even here in the middle of the country where these cars are not extremely popular. Arne that is really nice work, you should be proud of the cars long life!

Floors dont scare me, thats not a problem, replacing the entire front frame rail is the problem, have to take off the entire suspension, cut out the old, and I dont have a plasma cutter, then weld it all back in and get the suspension points right. That is beyond my skill level, and I refuse to pay the huge amount it would take to have a shop do it. Its a shame, the car has replacement quarters, doors, hood, hatch has been redone, bumpers rechromed, there are a lot of good parts. Parted out I might get enough to make me feel better.

I figure the drivers side is about 6 months behind this side, havent got the nerve to really poke on it yet.

Looks like RIP (Rust In Pieces) for this car. I am really mad at myself for getting it and not going over it better. I am an Idiot, I know better, and I am out a nice piece of change. I dont think I have the desire to do this much work on the car, I bought it to drive and enjoy getting rid of a street strip Camaro because the contstant wrenching was begining to take the fun out of it. I should have bought a Miata.

Been out in the garage working on the rust. I got way more than I bargined for!!! Got the frame rail/support off, then went to work on the pans. If you have not picked up an air nibbler get one. It worked great, started in the rust hole, there were plenty to choose from, and cut a nice smooth line down and around and dropped the offending rusted pan right out. Went to work on the piece where the Torsion Control Rod mounts and guess what I found? Paper thin rust infestation! Not much left to work with there. The mount is solid, but where it mounts is seperating from inner fender. I have no idea what to do about this. Am I going to have to cut this all out, cut off the mount, cut off more car and then get it all replaced? This looks like it is above my skill level. I cant locate the parts made elsewhere so I am guessing they are going to have to be fabbed. If this is the case I am sunk for a while as I gather the funds. Anyone have a cure, or am I just going to have to hack it all out and replace. If it goes much further, I am going to have to pull the engine, and front fenders. This is a disaster. Ideas welcomed!

Well the Bad Dog rails arrived late this afternoon and I picked up the freshly bent floor pans from the shop on the way home Friday. I got to work with the new air nibbler. If you dont have this tool and do some light body work and metal modification get one! I powered up the compressor and went to work. I got the passenger side floor cut. The rust was worse than I expected. Went further and left the metal thinner than I thought it would. After today, I am seriously wondering if this car is worth the effort to fix correctly. Looks like the rust monster has won. Up to the torison control rod mounting point is rusted away completely. After getting it out, the metal between the frame rail and the inner fender is a disaster as well. Looks like more cutting and welding. If I had known it to be this bad, I would not have bought the car, and would have got a MG or something else again. Even my Mustang, having spent its entire life in Illinois was more solid than this. OK, time to relax, clean up and get some rest before going at it again, I guess if I cut enough away I can just sell the running gear!

Mike I certainly agree that some more good parts suppliers would be a great thing. My 74 Midget was easy to get parts for, this car is just as hard if not harder than the 70 Opel GT (besides being underpowered the cost to keep it going and upgrade became too much and it was sold). I too am working on a regular driver, stockish outside with some upgrades to make life easier an more fun. I also second the feeling that many of these cars are being parted out, it is a common post, and some of the cars are in restorable shape, but by the time a person invests in the parts, its just cheaper to hack the old one up and buy one that some other person put the time and money into. It might just be I am grumpy, replacing the floors and rails on what I though was a solid car may be tainting my view at the moment, and maybe getting it back on the road will lessen the pain a bit.

Rich1, I rolled under mine and thought all was fine, undercoating looked solid, beat on it by hand and felt no soft spots. Then I read somewhere here a poster that suggested using a pick or such to really poke around. Doing this, I found that under the undercoating was a lot of rust. Floor supports, part of the floor and the rail leading up to the TC rod mounting point were rusted. I am going the POR 15 and undercoating method myself, the first to protect the metal and the second to make it match underneath if I ever want to sell and womeone looks.

mbarjbar I agree. I did not do enough research before getting my 72 240. I figured with popularity of the car, parts would be more reasonable. Then I went to replace the rear brakes and wanted to replace the wheel cylinders, nearly had a heart attack! Instead they got a light honing and a rebuild kit. I am always impressed with those that chose the original route, the dedication, attention to detail and desire are only matched by the depths of the pockets. The people that engage in total original cars a wonderful resources full of knowledge. Fortunately, the hobbie has a place for them as well as racers, drivers and tweakers. Just wish the prices were a little more reasonable, I got to used to working on US cars with wide ranging aftermarkets and tons of parts new, used, NOS and reproduction.

My brain knew that Walter, but my fingers didnt!

Without forged aluminum pistons, and beefed up rods, you are looking at problems. The cyclinder pressure increases dramatically when adding no2 to the mix. With the nature of the intake on these cars, and the difficulty of getting the fuel mix the same in all cyclinders, you would have to use a wet system, with the nozzles drilled into the intake. Multicarb set ups are tricky with no2. Timing will have to be reduced at the time the system is armed to avoid detonation and piston burning/melting, so you are looking at an additional ignition control system, like msd box with retard trigger. Remeber adding 50hp kit to these cars is an increase of nearly 33% more hp than stock (156 on 72s if I remember right) with roughly the same in torque. Its not like putting a 50hp kit on a 400hp 350sbc. In my experience no2 does 12 things to the motor, only one makes it go faster! It can be done, but it takes work to make it solid and safe, its not like you can get an off the shelf system for this combo that is tested and designed to be safe as long as the bug doesnt bite and give you the "just 25hp more" bug.

Doing frame rails and floors this weekend and watching this post for ideas.

Carpetclips!!! D'oh! Thanks Ron!

OK, floorboard replacements are fabbed and bent, new rails from Bad Dog on the way (watching the tracking is addictive!) welder and air nibbler are in house and ready to go. I have read a lot of searches on this common rite of passage and I think I am ready to go. Car is on ramps, blocked, undercoating removed (btw just heat with propane torch till it starts to change color, not much more, hurts when it catches fire and drips on you while you try to beat out the flames!) battery disconnected and out, all flamable parts of interior removed or covered with welding paper. One side at a time. Cut out the old, clean up the edges, flange the replacement panel, hammer and shape as needed, klinko into place, spot weld. That covers the floors. Floor support and rail to TC mount, clean up the old and get into place, spot weld to hold and then bead them in. Then weather proof with POR15. Anything I should look out for? I think I should be able to do a side a day this weekend. The POR will take longer, should get it done during the week. If I am missing anything that will cause a problem please give me a heads up? Wish me luck!

Ordered the frame rails from baddog tonight, should have them by the end of the week. The weather is pretty sweet too, so I should be able to start making some progress and be back on the road again real soon. Floorboards are bent up and the nibbler is ready to take out the rust. Cant wait to get back on the road!

No joke doctor first. Triple bypass is a warning shot, and you need to make sure the path you are taking to loose the pounds are also helping your overall heart health. Portion control and increased activity will always lead to loss, may be slower than what you want, but if the overall outcome is what you are looking for it will be worth modifying the bet. Sealing the car will help with the fumes as well, the tailight gaskets on my Z let in a lot of fumes. I also added chrome tips to extend out even with the bumber and this helped as well. I think a rear spoiler might also aid in getting the air directed away from the low pressure area that forms in the wake of a Z. Then you get the best of both worlds!