Jetaway

Slight, Welcome to the club (almost). Sound advice above, a couple of generalizations here: The basic mechanicals of Z's are fairly straight forward and they are built, very well built. Maintenance items, say spark plugs through wheel bearings, are probably available in your city. Common to other cars of the era, mid run (say 60,000 -- 100,000 miles) maintenance/repair items such as alternators and radiators are at most a two-day delivery from a local's warehouse and reasonably priced. These are widely available mail order, possibly a little cheaper on price, but by the time shipping is figured in, buying local is competitive or a bit cheaper. More longer-term or esoteric items: engine / transmission parts (e.g., valves, brake power assist hose and fittings, etc.) will be difficult to impossible to find locally, but are readily available by mail. The price of mechanical parts will run a bit more than those used across multiple models and years from the Big 3 but less, often much less, than from more exotic makes. Sometimes the parts are drop-dead cheap -- I got rebuilt calipers, locally and in stock no less, for $33.00 and a strong, new, Bosch starter for $65.00. Trim items, especially badges, are not only expensive in absolute terms (What do you think seven new badges for a 240Z would run? I'm thinking you'd feel fortunate to get change back from a $500 bill.) and insane from a price/performance view. The interior can add up quickly. Mine had a freshly installed, complete (dashboard to carpeting and all points in-between), all non-OEM interior when I bought it. I'm guessing around $700 and I don't care for the seats much at all. OEM or OEM quality parts -- boy, I wouldn't doubt you could spend twice, if not more for new parts. If you get lucky with some good used parts, fill in with non-OEM parts, maybe $400. But the interior may not be that important to you -- or you could care less if there is no carpeting in the hatch, but insist on uncracked seats, or other combinations, you may get by with spending nothing or next to nothing. Sheet metal / exterior is a mixed bag. If you have patience, you'll eventually come across just about anything you may need. But the paint won't match the rest of the car. But since you are a student, feel free to get away with a primer grey / dark blue / canary yellow ride. Rust always sucks, but may not be avoidable in your area. Spending 7 - 8 grand, even 12 grand won't guarantee no problems. Z's are 40 year old and counting cars, from an era, that even though I love them, simply don't last as long, as easily, as do today's cars. To keep the cost of maintenance and repair anywhere near affordable, you'll have to do, or learn how to do most of your work yourself. Besides, most garages don't have a freakin' clue how to fix older cars and a lot of the problems or annoying but not immediately needed to be repaired things that develop can only be solved by patient trouble-shooting -- which garages are unlikely to do or, if they do, run up eight, ten, twelve hours of labor charges. I bought my Z two and a half years ago. The last time I did any semi-serious work on a car was a good thirty years in the past. Heck, I stopped changing my own oil fifteen years ago. I've taken my Z to a garage three times: 1) Right after I bought it to have the carbs adjusted. I have nothing put praise for the garage for the work he's done on my 2001 vehicle, but as for the Z, never again, never again. 2) Installation of a MotorSports exhaust system. Damn things are more difficult than you expect and working under a Z isn't always a lot of fun. 3) Resurfacing the rotors. I brought the rotors in, they resurfaced, I reinstalled. If I described what I've done to the car since, it would double the length of this already lengthy post. What eight to twelve grand will, or should get you is: a straight car; with little rust (relative to others in your area); most or all of the badges; paint that will look pretty good, at least from ten feet away, after one or two good polish/wax cycles; an interior you don't have to make up some story about for a date; starts readily; doesn't run badly and; doesn't kill all the mosquitos in a two block area when you hammer it. Avoid the real fixer-uppers, especially those requiring body work, or those that "just need a tune-up." Ask yourself, if $30 worth of parts would transform an evil-running beast into a smooth running angel, why didn't the owner spend the $30? Because they like to drive an evil-running beast? Not likely. As a general pricing rule, find the lowest priced running, even badly running and the highest, or definitely near the top of the market Z in your area, calculate the difference in price, take 1/3rd of the difference and add it to the lowest priced runner. Going from your post, that price is about the lowest you should expect to pay for something you'll be happy with. At the lower end, yes you'll have to do more immediate to first month repairs than at the higher end, and more for the first year or so, but after that they would both require about the same amount of maintenance and repair. Set aside about $500 for first month parts (assuming you'll tackle it yourself). You probably won't use all, or even most of it, but nothing is more maddening than having a 'new' car and not being able to drive it until payday or two paydays because you are $20 short of what you need for a new radiator or brake pads or whatevers. Now I understand why some people call me wordy. Personally, I would run away from a car like the one you linked to. It may not have freaked you, but installing 240Z springs to lower a 280Z sounds like a bad idea to me. A 240 weighs, what 300 -- 400 lbs less than a 280? So he gets a lower ride by forcing the softer springs to ride with more compression than they were designed to do? That's gotta be good for ride quality, not to mention suspension travel. Even setting that aside, you'll have fun enough figuring out what is what and how it comes apart using manuals designed for cars as they come from the factory, not customized parts that may or may not have readily available documentation. Finally: ((Lots of performance modifications) + (needs considerable body work)) X (Price on the low side) = Beaten to Hell. It may well be quick. For a week. But no fun after that. Best of Luck! Chris

Second guessing, especially 40 years later is way too easy. But here's two: 1) A little more money on the non-engine electrical system. 2) Maybe an inch, half an inch lower in front. Maybe it's an optical illusion of sorts, but mine, some I see on th road, and those in contemporary photos, seem to be "climbing" on level ground. I think its because they have more space between the tire and fender in the front than the back. So maybe a bit larger rear wheel cut-out, because I'm assuming the front is so high for clearance while turning. Other than those two, not much. Sure, there was a 100 ways to make the Z perform better (in all aspects), and that if incorporated, would have put the Z in price competition with Ferrari's. And Datsun would have sold, two, maybe three Zs. Chris

Yes indeed. He makes crazy money by my, and I'd imagine, most of our standards but when you are picking up the best of what's available (and restoring it if the very, very, good isn't available) he doesn't make enough to spread it around all genres and years. Plus motorcycles. Has 10 Vincent's according to his column in Septembers Pop Mechanics. Chris

Nothing yet today, but I love taking a little tour during sunset, so I'll be taking a drive in about two hours. Oh, and to be technical about today, I stopped at the Sonic drive-in in Tracy for a orange cream freeze at 12:30A.M. after taking the back route home from work. I was just tired of the 75 mile freeway flog home and elected to scare myself silly even while driving _slowly_ through Corral Hollow Pass. No streetlights, no guard rails, no artificial light, other than my headlights, at all. Chris

Damn it, Meant "wideband." Ha! Saw the sucker change the w to a s. Thought I was losing my mind there for a minute. Chris

And "sideband" seems to return stuff on CB radios. I meant "sideband." Chris

I remember coming across and reading a thread on wideband exhaust sensors sometime ago, but apparently don't know what to search for as "sideband" returns way to many results. It was about a in-car system. Could someone direct me to the correct thread(s)? Thanks, Chris

New to you car? Chris

For those of you in the market: It's come down a bit. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-Datsun-Scarab-Rare-Find-/260851169625?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3cbbf0f959 Chris

Yeah. If an AC Cobra was near or at the top of value for a production vehicle with a special "name" engine, I figured the Cosworth Vega to be near the bottom and the Scarab somewhere in between. Chris

I went to a local car upholsters' shop and asked if they did seat belts. They did, and had black webbing in stock. Quoted a price of $15.00 and that it would be done by day's end, a little over two hours at this point. I returned around twenty minutes before closing, and they had it done. In fact, they had two done as the person who worked on it inadvertently had cut off the "good" side that I had left as a model. Their bad, my gain, as I got both for $15.00. I have the non-retractable type and reused the original hardware and can't believe how much more snug the shoulder belt feels. As far as I know, its never been in a major accident, so the stretching or slack in the old shoulder belts must have been simply due to a million little tugs over their lifetime. I think I'll have them do the lap belts next Monday. If you have an older Z (or any car, for that matter), have the belts replaced, I think you'll find it worth the money, even if you don't get quite the 'deal' I did. Chris

That or a major leak in a hose/connector. My '72 Master-Vac failed a few months after I bought the car, but the symptoms weren't as immediate and dramatic as Lovemy240Z describes, and I never lost braking ability, though pedal pressure rose to an uncomfortably high level. Though if I had to put money on it, it probably is the Master-Vac. Suckers are kinda pricey though, so check for leaks first. Chris

Gtom, Check your PM's. I may have a line on something for you. Chris

Rob Velly, velly cool thread. (Quit spell-correcting it to belly, dang it!) I'll try to get one up soon. I'm wondering what it will cost me to convince the wife to hang on to rear quarter and lid with her legs to get the video, and especially the sound, right. Chris

I don't have a clue about the stress of racing but... Maybe you've got two problems going on. I understand your not wanting a stuck thermostat to toast your engine, but seriously, even with a malfunctioning gauge, if the thermostat stuck, I think you'd pit because the engine would start running badly before any great damage occurred. If the engine is too cold, and you've tuned the carbs for the cold running engine -- wait, I just read a thread on the effect of temperature and altitude on carb tuning. Running 50 -- 60 degrees below normal might not have a one to one correspondence with the effect of air temperature on mixture, but surely it must have some effect, would 1:2 be an unreasonable guess? That would give you an unusually dense air-fuel mixture. Combine that with your first post describing the effect of RPMs on the engine, which sounds very similar to my experiences when I adjusted (another word, beginning with "f" might better describe the entire process of my first attempt) float levels. My first attempt had fuel running out the air cleaner. I decided that lowering the float bowl level was appropriate. Car would run fine around town, even accelerate normally up to and cruise at 70 mph. But run it through the gears hard and fast, hack, ack, ack or drop into 4th and run it from 70 (~3600 rpm) it would make it to about 95, then start hacking and be unable to hold speed. Might not be the bowl levels, but I'm thinking an unusually heavy fuel demand caused by low engine temp and some sort of fuel delivery problem might well be the problem. My not even two cents. Chris

Zed Head might be right about mods or maybe a 1970 differs from a 1972. First-year runs are closer to large-scale production prototypes than mass produced automobiles as they work out the kinks and lower production costs. Also, I didn't notice the first time I replied that the hose picture is titled "BrakeLineNew." It looks like mine, but have you tried fitting it on the wheel side as a test? It's possible that the relative ease you had removing the body side fitting was due to something falling off over time, or was an improv at 50,000 miles. Chris

I think the mount is the same. Let the penetrant do it's thing overnight, if it still doesn't budge, more penetrant and wait another day. Be sure to give it a gentle whack or two with a hammer along with the penetrant. If it still doesn't budge, I'd go on to more extreme measures. Chris

I, I, ... lucked out on something? I mean, your talking to a guy who thought this web-thing was at best a useful novelty and more than likely a fad. No smiley, tiz sad but true. Chris

gtom replied that he has seen "unmolested" in conjunction with Z's. It is an unfortunate word choice as it implies a malevolent intent. Unfortunately it has become quite common in describing cars, even in the mainstream press. The latest Hemming's, (October 2011) on page 72 as part of their show coverage describes a 1969 Town & Country as "Looking like an unmolested example." Abomination is a word for intense dislike. 1st example from the on-line Merriam-Webster: Some people view the sculpture as art while others see it as an abomination. gtom asked for opinions on what others would consider a molestation to a 240Z. Maybe I'm patting ourselves on our backs too much, but the conversation has been nothing but respectful. I've been a bit surprised to find out that I might be a bit more of a purist than I thought I was. But I've read nothing that I would even remotely consider insulting to me or anyone else. Ta240 had two points that I heartily agree with, and I hope that expressing them in my own words does his no insult: 1) Cars are living things. They were made to move, they are not sculpture, they are not art for arts sake, they exist to move. And when they don't move, they lose their reason for existence and they die. Yes, of course, I recognize that there are a few cars, due to historical significance and rarity that shouldn't be driven, or, more exactly, I would give a "pass" to for being eternally parked. But my "few" are far less than the number of trailer queens, garage decorations, and status symbols that would be taxed by a period-approporiate brisk cruise. 2) I've met other Z-owners. Some have done, or a P.O. had done, or they have failed to have done things to their car that I simply find ugly or stupid. But you know what? I ain't going to tell them that, unless it is very dangerous or puts the car at risk of eminent destruction. If I'm asked for my opinion about something, and I feel that I know something about it, yes, sure, I'll give my opinion. I picked up a 1971 gas cap door that I then painted black simply because I liked the look of the latch and the black paint. Most of my friends said, looks like it's damaged or something. To them,, I said: "It's my damn car." I expect the same sentiment, perhaps less forcefully put, lives in others and extend them the courtesy that I expect them to extend to me. On a somewhat related note: gtom: I work in the Bay Area and live in the Central Valley. If you are looking for an early 1970, like you had years ago, I'm hesitant to give you a guess on what one would cost. But for later Z's I'm thinking you can find a very nice one in the $6,000 -- $10,000 range. Not in "showroom" shape of course, but rust-free, straight, and reasonably maintained over the years. Paint might be a little dull, but shines up without heroic efforts. A nice looking, turn-key driver in other words. Unless you have plenty of time on your hands and 1/2 a garage full of parts, those in the $2,000 -- $3,000 range probably aren't worth looking at. In-between, you'll find something like mine. I paid $4,800 for a 1972 three and a half years ago, probably over-paid $300-$400 , but it was worth it to me because it was only a mile and a half from my house and I didn't have to worry about it, say, giving up the ghost on the San Mateo bridge on the drive home. It looked good, even better after polishing and waxing, had one item requiring immediate attention, in my case a leaking oil pressure sending gauge, isn't entirely original: engine and body number match, the ZX 5-spd most definitely does not. A couple of the usual suspects in a 1970 era car needed replacement within the first year, in my case, the radiator and power brake booster, while others -- water pump, alternator, etc., are still plugging away. Oh, and its a constant source of amusement with its habit of parts coming of in hand;) Nothing major though. Chris

Steve, Looks like this: Chris

I'm not a total purist, so grains of salt or whatever. I don't know if I'd agree with a non-factory color. There certainly are colors that are molestations, even abominations, but a classy looking paint job is a classy looking paint job and its not unreasonable to expect a repainting somewhere along the way with a forty year old car. Engine other than a L-24. It's simpler for me to list the modifications that I wouldn't consider molestations. Judges at a concours would no doubt disagree. Electronic ignition. I shed no tears for points. Stock exhaust collectors, but after-market from the down pipe to the tail. Heck, try finding one of those round mufflers. K&N air filter in place of a pleated paper filter. Headlight relay with stronger headlights. LED turn, brake, side, etc. lights. A later year, higher output Z alternator. On the fence about a non-Z internal voltage control alternator. I'd do it, but readily concede that many would consider it a molestation. Larger tires, but not larger diameter wheels. Quality gas shocks. Stiffer springs, but not much stiffer and no, or only a very, very slight change in ride height. Newer sound equipment, but no new holes! Anywhere! Probably a few more, but I think that covers my major non-molestation modification list. Chris

Steve, Sorry about that chief ... I think I saw pictures from another thread on seat belts with the retractor on the floor, saw something about early Z's not having two holes in the floor, mixed in something about welding (no can do), decided I wanted to check out the belts that boyracer88 said he was going to try, recalled something about someone not liking WESCO belts in a '72, and managed to space out your writing that the WESCO WELR belts with their roof mounted retractors was the way to go. Hopefully that clears it up for you. Or at least take comfort in the thought that I've got it straight now. Chris

Greetings, I need to replace the shoulder belt on my 1972. I should say that its nominally a 1972, but has, to the best of my knowledge, some 1971 equipment (vertical rear defroster, for example) and fixed, not retractable seat belts. I found an earlier thread on seat belts, and am interested in the following: http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?40364-which-seat-belts-are-better&p=348736&viewfull=1#post348736 But ... what I am not sure about is exactly how much work it would require. The retractable belt equipped Z's have a small well in the floor / side wall, don't they? I don't, just a mounting plate. If boyracer88 is reading this, could you tell me if your 1972 has a well for the retractor? Anyone else, am I right about there being a substantial difference in the mounting of retractable vs. non-retractable belts? Chris

Good to know for future reference, not just for me but for others with the same setup. BTW: I suspect they have a machine shop. First, when I told them drilled and slotted there was no hesitation at all, almost like why was I even asking the question. Second, on any given day there will be a show-quality '55 Chevy having engine work done, an ancient RV on a lift and a municipal golf cart in another bay for who knows what. Definitely old school and they have been around for 30+ years. Chris