gotham22

Rust Advice 78 280z

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    This may be a dumb question but I will ask anyway. Always been told there are no dumb questions, just dumb people. Ha!  I am looking to remove the surface rust from the engine bay.  There are parts where it will be difficult to get a wire brush into ( I.e. battery tray area). Has anyone tried to use a pressure washer to get the rust off?  Would that even work? Or am I going to cause too much damage to the metal. 

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    Pressure washers not going to help much. It'll get it clean but won't really touch the rust.

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    There are some after market attachments that claim they can turn your pressure washer into a wet blaster with a siphon for sand but they don't get very good reviews and from what I have read most people never get them to work. There are mini hand held dry sand blasters but you still need a decent compressor with 12-15 CFM.

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      I've used several layers of paper towels soaked in Evapo-Rust, then layed the wet towels as flat as possible on the vertical? rusty surfaces and covered the towels with Saran Wrap. (does anyone use that term anymore?)  I checked the progress and re-wet the towels using a spray bottle as needed.

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    Hey, was wondering if anyone had a tip for me.  I removed the drivers side outer tie rod but the passenger one is seized.  Its lefty loosy on the passenger side right? The drivers side is the one that is the opposite way?  I have used heat and PB blaster.  Wont budge.  

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    left side tie rod is the one with left hand threads. Right side is right hand thread.

    That assumes no one has replaced the left side with a right side inner rod (common since left sides are hard to find), which would make them both right hand thread. Look at the threads and how they lead into the lock nuts. 

     

    Edited by zKars
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    I  take "rostdelete" , with best results , see the pictures from my 240z 1971.

    WP_20180409_19_09_20_Pro.jpg

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    WP_20180409_19_09_46_Pro.jpg

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    5 hours ago, UM240 said:

    one more example

    img_8763.jpg

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    What are we looking at in these pictures? What is the yellow stuff?

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    There is a scooter shop in England that sells it, https://www.scooter-center.com/en/rust-remover-rostdelete-1000g-7676573

    but the shipping isn't cheap, haven't been able to find any distributors in NA yet.  Citric acid isn't that hard to get a hold of,  maybe I'll try some garage chemistry🔬

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    Honestly I'm not sure any garage chemistry is even warranted. My read on the whole thing is all that stuff is (is) a rust converting acid suspended in a bulky spongy gelatinous base material that slows down evaporation. The preservative is necessary because the citric acid will harbor critters over time and "spoil" (probably smell bad and lose effectiveness).

    But the point is.... It's a rust converting acid in a gelatinous bulk material to slow evaporation. I believe there are lots and lots and lots of phosphoric acid based materials on the market available at this side of the globe.

    My (own untested) suspicion is that I bet the phosphoric based stuff would work better, but is less safe to use and potentially worse for the environment. I suspect the citric acid based stuff is uber-safe and all that. From the list of ingredients, it looks like you could eat it. But that doesn't mean it works better, and in fact, most times the worse something is for you and the environment, the better it works.

    Is there some reason people would believe that citric acid based compound would be more effective?

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    There's Naval Jelly.  A standard rust remover.  It brushes on.  You could probably make your own home-built paste using vinegar and sawdust.  Cheap.  They're all just moderately strong acids with thickening agents.  

    You could use a strong acid like muriatic acid but it would work very fast, create hydrogen gas, and corrode metal after the rust is gone.  Plus burn the crap out of any skin it touches.  Blind you if it gets in your eyes.  It's basically battery acid in a bottle.

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    the scootershop is in Germany  ...... 😉,

    my results with rostdelete are better than every other possebility to rmove the rost without dird everywhere in the car ... look at my foors

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    19 minutes ago, UM240 said:

    my results with rostdelete are better than every other possebility

    Have you tried the others?  If not, no foundation for your statement.

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    Sorry for my english,....  yes i did ... but not on this car.  With Sandblasting i got the best results, but it is only an good idea when you strip the car totaly down.

    Any kind of rotating tool is a muck and the rust ist still there. I am working ower 35 years with the old metall of cars and bikes and believe me, i tried a lot of different tools to remove the "Rost".

     

     

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    8 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

    Is there some reason people would believe that citric acid based compound would be more effective?

    I have used phosphoric acid based rust removers and metal preps a lot and although for the most part they do the job well it's the iron phosphate they leave behind that always causes problems for me.  Even when I have washed off the product while it was it wet then washed with detergent, I've even tried to neutralizes it with a baking soda paste and scrubbed into the metal I still end up with white powder bleeding through the paint.

    In fact the only success story I can claim with using phosphoric acid is by sanding the metal down until all of the iron phosphate is removed before painting, that works.  So I have done a lot of reading today on citric acid and it seems that after de-rusting with citric acid and washing, the metal is ready for primer immediately. One less step and cheaper?

    Considering agricultural grade citric acid is about $2 per pound it's certainly worth a bit of experimenting with xanthan gum and sawdust to see if I can come up with a quick and easy way to deal with rust on vertical surfaces or hard to reach corners.

    I'll give it a try and see what happens.

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    15 hours ago, grannyknot said:

    I have used phosphoric acid based rust removers and metal preps a lot and although for the most part they do the job well it's the iron phosphate they leave behind that always causes problems for me.

    Gotcha. Shows what I know!  LOL.

    So all you need for a proof of concept test is a citric acid based thixotropic paste. I suspect the finer the sawdust, the better, and (again, for proof of concept),  don't know if you need to spring for xanthan gum. That stuff is a lot more expensive than corn starch (which you already have).

    Cooked corn starch slurry (cooked to activate the corn starch), with citric acid added. Only thing I'm not sure about is the reaction between the starch and the acid. I spend a fair amount of time in the kitchen, but I'm a little rusty* on which thickening agent to use in which application and I'm not sure if there will be compatibility issues. I do remember there are some restrictions on which starch to use when preparing a citrus fruit based dessert, so I'm assuming those restrictions would apply here.

    Could maybe use plain ol' gelatin as a thickener if corn starch isn't compatible? Maybe put in a little propylene or ethylene glycol to slow down evaporation?

     

    *See what I did there?

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    Has anyone used the tie rod boots from zcar depot?  I bought a pair but I can not get them on.  The inner ring is just a little too small to get on the tie rod.  I did everything and couldn't get them on.  I think my rack is original but I cant be certain.  Has anyone had luck with rubber boots from somewhere else?

     

     

     

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    Making progress on the rack.  Finished painting it and put the new dust covers on.  Of course after I finished painting I scratched it in the middle.  Quick fix though.

     

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