Jump to content
Careless

240Z Resto - 01/1970 Car

Recommended Posts

Being over 4 decades old, the original pressure plate rivets that hold on the balancing weights barely had any rivet head left on them due to galvanic corrosion. I would expect that the steel would be the item to disintegrate over time first if it were on sheet steel, but the pressure plate is much thicker and the only reason I could come up with for the OE rivets having barely any rivet head left over was due to the thinner aluminum corroding to nothingness sooner than the steel pressure plate- the blasting process that was used on the pressure plate must have removed most of what was left of the rivet heads. I didn't feel comfy with those spinning at 2000+ rpm at any time. Some were far gone worse than others. They were so gone that they looked like a stain on the pressure plate steel, or like a solder smear, but drilling them out showed that they were indeed aluminum.

I replaced them all by doing one group at a time, and marked each hole in each group, and cleaned underneath each weight using a fine wire wheel and also cleaned the weights themselves (probably reduced the weight a smidge, but whatever!) I believe the original pop rivets were closer to 6mm, but the retained mandrel head of the 3/16 in. (5mm) rivet once popped into place is the same diameter as the OE ones, so it tightens up real good. They're not going anywhere. I was satisfied with the tightness of the weights and the way the rivets appeared when installed.

In other news... the clutch disc I got from Beck Arnley is an old (but not asbestos lined) disc made by ASCO, which is Aisin Seiki COmpany- an O.E supplier to Toyota, and the disc is indeed made in Japan- not at their new Thailand facility. The clutch disc is very close to the one that came out, and it clears every rivet great, and it has the Nissan clutch spline (24 tooth). So now that I got that, I'm going to take it to the dealer and see if they'll refund or credit me because the clutch disc I got is for a Stanza- just like the one Nissan gave me, and specs for the same application... sooooo I'll take what I can get.

The original pressure plate is an AMPCO (I can veryyyyyyy faintly see an engraving on it, but it's definitely there, and matches the AMPCO on the O.E disc). I'll try to take a photo of it, but it's just going to look like bead blasted steel.

This is a screen-grab of the same pressure plate (note the 3 flat areas with 2 rivets each) in the 1970 FSM, which is a very unique look for 240z pressure plates as far as I can tell, and is a clear indicator of it being the OE style to use with the "A" style long body collar.

3CnWCjV.png

 

There is also an inked stamping...

it is a 1 inch circle, with P at the 12:00 position and A at the 6:00 position, and running in between the two letters it says REBUILT very faintly and in small letters. It guess the unit was serviced at some point. I am going to double check it with some gauges tomorrow to make sure it's at least close to max spec. I'm sure it will be.

Will post pics during install and of various parts of the components for documentation.

 

 

Edited by Careless

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On ‎12‎-‎1‎-‎2016 at 2:42 PM, Careless said:

Thanks! I've got some rebuilt calipers that were cheap and done well and they have all the factory hardware too. So I just coated them and they are ready to install with ceramic pads so that they don't dust up the fresh wheels and wheel covers!

The hubs also not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Original clutch disc from my 3/70 240Z and the replacement disc.  Original disc shown has about 95K miles on it.

Rich

Clutch Disc.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, motorman7 said:

 

Original clutch disc from my 3/70 240Z and the replacement disc.  Original disc shown has about 95K miles on it.

Rich

Thanks for adding the pic here for reference, Rich. Would have been nice to have an original disc with the box to add to the build for originality, but the replacement disc will have to do. In the future it can be changed if there's nothing left to do. The one thing I noticed with the replacement disc was that the splined section that sticks up above the hub itself is a tad bit shorter, but I think even the clutch kit ones are the same. It shouldn't create any issues, as i'm sure there is more than enough engagement area on the hub. All Nissan's I've installed clutches onto grab the splined input shaft with splines showing passed both top and bottom of the splined region. So aside from this disc not being exactly OE, I think it's gon' work! Bit of a set back waiting a week for it to come in :(

 

17 hours ago, bartsscooterservice said:

The hubs also not.

 

Thanks bart, I just gave 'em a quick splash with some satin black (or semi gloss, i can't remember now) and put the new BR6 and BR2 bearings and races in and filled the grease as per the manuals specs before throwing in a new rear bearing seal. I am waiting to drop the chassis onto the motor now before install the front uprights and then the rest of the items. Everything is so clean and ready to go on. I'll probably be doing that starting tomorrow and finish on Monday or Tuesday. Then onto wiring + interior while the rest of the cool items are on order.

 

Edited by Careless

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that's the idea, Chris!

had a minor setback today so I didn't end up going, but I'll be doing some garage things @ home and then going there on monday ready to get at'er again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, that's how the calipers look right now, and they are all assembled and ready to install.

The hubs, however had clear signs of OE black paint on areas that were not masked during recent painting. And it looked kind of like flat black, but I assume it was satin like the rest of the items- just weathered down from old age, so I just resprayed with satin black.

I will have pictures to show soon. Going to my friend's shop now because I need to expel some energy into cleaning up some parts and putting things together. gotta bake some painted goodies too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm way passed that point, bartsscooterservice! I've already coated the items in sharkhide, so that's what they'll stay like. Not overly glossy, just the right amount of sheen. 

As for the clutch situation. I managed to install the new crank seal, pilot bushing, and reinstall the backing plate (scatter shield), dowel, and put the trans on with the clutch bits and transmission parts all squared up.

The only issue I seem to have is that the throwout bearing collar that I do have is neither of the 4 used on various S30's... (I have a picture below). it WAS the one that came out of the vehicle because the wear pattern on the throwout bearing that I removed from it matched the one on the pressure plate. So I think it should be compatible. It just feels like there is a little bit of play in the fork before it makes contact with the pressure plate diaphragm. Time will tell, I guess. It's not the worst thing that could happen if I need to replace it. At this point I need to move forward with the rest of the resto so I am choosing to try this one and see how it goes. 

In fact, I'll be putting the motor in today, so it was a necessary step to just get it on there and hope that it operates as it did before the car was taken apart.

backing plate, new seal, and new bearing installed. I drove the seal in just a hair further than the one that was there, as i felt as though it was riding on a portion of the crank that looks to have been running a seal for 40 years, so the trick there is to drive it in about 1mm further (well within limits) so that the portion of the crank it seals on is of original size.

LLsnNRr.jpg

 

Here's the OEM pressure plate, with some marks I made while removing and reinstalling the balancing weights. the top marks indicate the group, the single dots indicate whether it was completed or not. Nothing special, just my method of doing things.

cDUPyO5.jpg

 

30210 imprint, looks somewhat like 3G21D, but 30210 are the first 5 numbers of the clutch pressure plate part numbers:

infyihO.jpg

 

AMPCO stamping (upside down) - an original driveline component supplier for the early models.

JKLkylp.jpg

 

Extremely faint (probably due to the sharkhide diluting some of the ink stamping), It is (or was) a circle that reads P in the 12 oclock position, A in the 6 oclock position, and REBUILT across the middle. The R, BUI, and T were distinctly visible, so I played wheel of fortune on the other letters.

X5wBv0M.jpg

 

Here's a shot of Group 2 of the balance weights. This group had a single rivet with no weights attached and no sign of weights or markings from corrosion around it, so I suspect that the weight of the rivet was all that was needed. Is this rivet the same weight as the one installed from the factory? probably not, but one came out- so one goes back in.

THbYfEK.jpg

 

Rivet on Rivet contact. You can't see it clearly from here, but the edge of the rivet on the pressure plate contacts the disc sold to me from the dealer (the STANZA disc from valeo).

GWDuo7b.jpg

 

A "Z" stamping on the inside of the pressure plate under the spring diaphragm (COOL!), and would it not be for the rivet/rivet contact, the captive tabs for the hub springs would hit the 3 flat portions of the cast pressure plate friction surface.

Q2Ec2gk.jpg

 

New Stanza disc:

vltzeyl.jpg

 

Nearly Identical to the ATSUGI disc that came out of the car in dimensions, but with minor differences around the springs:

Hrl0O33.jpg

 

Tons of clearance from both:

1wxVoO5.jpg

 

Stamping ID's on the disc:

ATSUGI, 30100 (first 5 digits of the part number group), and F225DC (225mm)

Cu7To6Z.jpg

 

Good idea of the taller hub splined section:

QripCCH.jpg

 

 

Shorter hub splines on the ASCO replacement disc. Still plenty of engagement.

VBvwNPt.jpg

 

Top side fastener comparison (looks very alike!)

Xfmqrta.jpg

 

Bottom side (also quite alike!):

ErMX9b3.jpg

 

Disc installed using an old tool I had from my Z31 300zx disc kit. Nissan uses the same 24T spline for just about every transmission assembly (which I think is shared by subaru), so it worked well.

RRFKKNc.jpg

 

 

flywheel installed, torqued to 100ft.lbs with a smidgen of blue loctite and some hash marks for future reference. I generally don't draw a line across the entire bolt head, but I don't know what I was thinking at this time. Doesn't matter. It's not important, really. Now I know this is getting reallllly nitpicky, but i put some sharkhide on all the areas of the pressure plate that does not come in contact with the friction pads. I hate rust. I try to hold it back for as long as I can. If the very thin coat of sharkhide will prevent that from happening, then it will go on. For this type of stuff, I use sharkhide that i've dipped into some various brushes into, so while the sharkhide itself is a tad less "transparent" than fresh fluid, it does the job and won't be seen anyways.

 Y2TZZpk.jpg

 

 

Don't have pics of the Pressure plate installed, but here is one with the throwout bearing collar I had, with measurements. (visually different in outer shape than the 240 one... I think it's from a 240sx.

D6T82Ou.jpg

 

 

But it did come out of the car because the bearings matched the pressure plate wear. Time will tell, I guess!

 

23XY8HU.jpg

 

 

 

 

As for removing the pilot bushing. I've had mixed success various ways, and some are not suitable for certain engines. I'll explain below:

 

Removing with Hydraulic / Grease method works but it's a little messy and requires a amount of force to generate pressure (bad for thrust bearings).
Removing with Wet Paper / Bread method works but also requires a considerable amount of force to generate pressure (bad for thrust bearings).
Using those two methods are suitable for a number of vehicles, or in a pinch- but also not suitable for those which have plugs taped into the back of the crank input shaft hole. Some are not just drilled, some are sealed. Popping that press fit plug seal out is bad news for a lot of reasons that I don't need to explain.

Using various pullers is sometimes convenient, but there are some that don't like Nissan bushings being that they're extremely thin. I've rented a couple of the tools from auto parts stores, and found that they work with modification- which I will not do on a rented part because I'm renting it so I don't have to own it. There are ones for motorcycles that work exceptionally well for small bearings and bushings, but again- money. time. ordering. waiting. no way!!!

Cutting it is also an option. You make a small slot on one side of the bushing with a fine tooth hacksaw blade. It just takes a long time. I don't enjoy it. And I only had a jig-saw blade with me that was a little too course. I got through a considerable amount of bushing material before realizing I couldn't cut the back of it with the coarseness of the jigsaw blade TPI.

So I figured I might as well mimic a puller, and to date- this is the best trick I've found for these thin nissan bushings in particular, and literally took about 4 or 5 minutes to concoct and achieve success:

Shove a bolt head in behind the bushing. put a large wrench over the hole, shove a pick or an allen key next to the head so it doesn't pop out or spin, and then just stack washers on the bolt threads, and tighten them down with a wrench/ratchet.

lNWyeZe.jpg

 

 

The bushing just slides right out.

DcBsQfb.jpg

 

And believe me, the slice down the middle had nothing to do with it. It was in there. I couldn't even spin the bushing with a couple of chisel hits even after all that cutting (as noted by the small deformation at the front edge of the cut). The back of the bushing was still much too intact to relieve any tension on the bushing to crank interference fit, so I'd say my new found method did the trick quite well.

 

 

Sooooo that's my update from yesterday. More today hopefully.

Edited by Careless
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

nice post - and i love the clever pulling method. nothing more satisfying than a creative solution using stuff laying around the shop vs. a fancy single-trick tool.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys.

So I'm looking around for bushings for the rear moustache bar. Are there any sources of the older style ones?  I also have to replace the front and rear control arm bushings (except the inner rear, already did those) at some point in the future. For now I'd just like to order them.

Those can be had from Nissan, so I'll be getting those on order tomorrow. But I'm more concerned with the mustache bar ones that I can't seem to find. Does anyone have a source for those? I know they have to be flared on the top, so I have large dimple dies that I can utilize one half of to curl the top over.

I've been slacking on pics, but I managed to get pretty much everything under the car installed except for the driveshaft and arrestor strap. I will be using the original arrestor strap that I refreshed to look brand new, as I don't like the goto-band or the replacement ones from Nissan that look like supercharger gilmer drive belts.

I'll have some pics soon! Promise!

Edited by Careless

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, Pmg said:

Got mine from the dealer.

PMG

The part number I gave to the dealer does not work.

which one of these ones did you use to order it?

4QKjm7W.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like 55476-N4300 is available. Everything else seems to come up superceded or NLA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Patcon said:

Looks like 55476-N4300 is available. Everything else seems to come up superceded or NLA

I'm just curious where you're going to get NLA for a particular part no. Often when I do a Google Search for a part no. I get a few websites that seem to indicate I can order an item through them, but I know many of the items are NLA. I find that Courtesy Nissan is usually a pretty good indicator of what is and isn't available anymore. But I've never actually tried ordering through them when a part no. says it's order-able :). Are you just using your local dealer?

Sadly in Australia we have a very hit and more times miss experience when dealing with local dealers for S30z parts, but in fairness I've never actually gone to them with part no's before and that may help?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I googled the numbers checking Courtesy and some other sites. They came up either NLA or superceded. I agree sometimes Courtesy says they can get parts when they may not be able to get it. I would love to find a source for the earlier parts unless there is no real discrepancy...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Patcon said:

I googled the numbers checking Courtesy and some other sites. They came up either NLA or superceded. I agree sometimes Courtesy says they can get parts when they may not be able to get it. I would love to find a source for the earlier parts unless there is no real discrepancy...

I'm unfortunately yet to find a single source of truth when it comes to these various part finder websites I'm afraid. I guess if it were easy it wouldn't be so fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Anyone know what the 55476-N4300 bushing looks like? 

I don't want to order another part that the dealer won't allow me to return.

The clutch disc superceeded and cost me 150 bucks :-/

EDIT: nvm, found a photo:

 

s-l1600.jpg

Edited by Careless

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll be putting in an order of bushings this week as well as a bunch of other non-dealer parts. The bushings don't need installing right now. I'm going to torque whatever I can and then remove/replace the bushings when I have some downtime- so that means I also have time to borrow a friends dimple die set and see if it will flare over the bushing when I get to that.


I've gotten some conflicting info, rather- i found conflicting issues regarding the heat-shield under the carbs... The one I was given by ztherapy was coated in the matte-grey looking cold galvanized coating, which I have a can of at home that is an exact match. However, the photos I've seen are not anywhere near what the matte gray Cold Galv coating looks like. It looks more like Bright Zinc Cold Galvanizing (which I also have a can of).

Can anyone confirm what the original finish of this part might be?

 

The current coating is like this:

 

QvwMBm2.jpg

 

The coating I keep seeing on other heat shields is like this:

 

4pfrNeE.png
ZjhgAbe.jpg

 

:-/ not sure what to use. leaning towards the second one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is a pic of the original un-restored heat shield on my 3/70 prior to the refresh.   It's looking pretty shiny for a 40+ year old piece of metal.

DSCF0829.JPG

DSCF0839.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will double check but pretty sure it is zinc plated, not painted.  There were a number of other items on the early '70 Z's that were also the 'white' zinc.  The coil bracket and the wire clamps would fall into this category.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my coil bracket and wire clamps are indeed replated clear zinc, with the help of some photos provided by 26th-z, I was able to make that decision on their factory finish. I just found the heat shield somewhat odd.

Maybe I should re-blast it and have it plated clear zinc. Please let me know what you find.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.