Lock Rebuilding and Internal Parts - Ignition, Doors, Hatch

[Captain Obvious]

My ignition lock on my 77 is sticky. Sometimes the key turns easy, sometimes not. I assumed that it was worn inside, so I took it apart, and yes... It's pretty bad. So I'm going to rework all the locks on the car and I've got some questions before I start...

First, do all the locks on the car share the same wafers? By that, I mean do the doors, hatch, and ignition lock all use the same wafers and springs?

Second, what other Nissans used the same wafers? My local yards have no first gen Z's, but there is the occasional 300ZX or mid-eighty's Maxima. Do they use the same wafers as the S30?

Any other (non-Nissan) cars that use the same wafers?

[Unkle]

Adding new ''wafers'' to worn housings may not get you there.

Code cutting your key would help , without getting into reworking anything.

New locks are best , obviously .

Yes , your car used one key for all locks - yes, all locks had the same wafers .

Try find a locksmith with the ASP kit for rebuilding yours , or better yet find

new locks and an ignition assembly as a set ( good luck ).

Remember , the stainless caps on the door locks only come off once , so you

need the correct replacement caps with tabs .

I seem to remember the kit involved years 70- into the 80's, even beyond .

It's been a while , we don't do cars anymore ( certified locksmith ) .

And yes, do a ''search'' on this site for more info .

Edited January 20, 2012 by Unkle

[Captain Obvious]

Thanks Unkle,

I was hoping you would show up here. I did a bunch of searching before I posted, and didn't find answers for the questions I was asking, but I did see you very prevalent in most of the lock discussions. I realize that new wafers might not be the answer if the housing is a mess too, however, I think mine is salvageable. Here's where I am right now, and you can see why I was asking about the wafers. My lock is way beyond code cutting a new key to fix the problem. Note the bent wafers from positions 1,2,3.

I just bought this car and it needs three different keys for locks on the car. I'm planning to re-key all the locks to the same key and change the key pattern while I'm at it. I was figuring to gather a bunch of wafers from donors and use the best of the bunch to create my own new key pattern. I'll cut the first key myself and then use that as a master for future dupes.

So you're thinking that they used the same wafers through the 80's?

By the way, I was calling them "wafers" because that's what I saw them referred to in past threads on the topic. Before reading those threads, I would have called them "tumblers". What do you call them?

[Unkle]

The trick is to code cut a new key to factory specs - not file out or duplicate one.

This will give you proper depths and spacings for the wafers to sit in.

The pic shows 6 wafers , the zero and seven are not actual lock wafers.

The first one is for the buzzer actuator , the last is a guide .

You can still buy a new ignition assembly , get it at a locksmith shop that does cars.

Yes the wafers are all the same from '70-mid eighties I think.

You should be able to purchase replacement wafers and caps from the same shop as well.

Most overlooked though is wear at the end of door locks- where the lazy cam is attached.

Buy new if you can - rebuilding a lock only to find the cam wont move because of end wear sucks !

PS code cutting a key is done by a manual ''clipper'' , or computer controlled machine , both locksmith only .

Possible reasons for bent wafers are : using ( forcing ) the wrong key , theft attempt, worn key shoulders, incorrect key duplication at Walmart etc , and use of a screwdriver . Yours wasn't I don't think, because both first and last are straight and in decent shape .

Edited January 21, 2012 by Unkle

[Captain Obvious]

I understand what code cutting is. I thought you were suggesting that all I needed to do in order to fix my lock problem was to get a fresh new key cut from wafer codes. But as you can see, the problems run deeper than that.

You identified the last wafer correctly as being used for key tip alignment, but the first wafer (the one I identified as zero) isn't for the buzzer. Wafer zero is used to retain the fully loaded cylinder plug in the lock shell. It snaps out when the plug has been fully inserted into the shell and prevents it from being pushed back out. I'm probably not using the correct terminology, but I'm sure you know what I mean. The buzzer switch is actuated by the rod located near the center of the pic.

Good memory for not being inside of one of these things for a while though!

I haven't even gotten to the door locks yet, but I do remember those lazy cams from a previous Z many years ago... I've fixed them in the past, but I don't remember what I did. Maybe it will come back to me when I've got the door locks off and in hand. Heck, maybe I'll get lucky and those cams aren't all worn out!! Yeah, right.

But the ignition lock is my first priority and it sounds like it won't be too hard to find the correct wafers in the boneyard. C'mon spring!

Edited January 22, 2012 by Captain Obvious
Better terminology (hopefully?)

[awolfe]

A little off subject, but what is the trick to getting the lock cylinder out of the ignition? I tried for days before finally giving up..

[Captain Obvious]

A little off subject, but what is the trick to getting the lock cylinder out of the ignition? I tried for days before finally giving up..

There is a small diameter pin that holds the lock shell (what I believe you are calling the cylinder) into the steering lock housing. I don't remember offhand how large, but something like .070.

Problem is the pin is pressed into a blind hole and there's no way to grab it to pull it out. It's supposed to be "secure", right? Anyway, I drilled into the visible end of the pin until I was deep enough that the pin wouldn't interfere. I was amazed that the pin didn't simply spin in the blind hole, but The result is that after I had drilled enough off the end of the pin, the lock shell comes out of the larger casting.

You can see (what's left of) the pin in the lower left portion of my pic. I replaced the pin with a similar sized screw. I'm not overly worried about security with this car. If it's going to disappear, it will happen on a flatbed, not someone who is going to take all the time to properly disassemble the steering column and take the lock apart. Besides, once you have the steering lock off the column and the electrical switch in hand, who cares if you can get the cylinder plug out of the steering lock casting, right?

I'm not a locksmith, and I'm not sure that I'm using the proper terms, but I'll update a pic showing what parts I'm talking about.

[FastWoman]

Captain, a locksmith can replace the ignition cylinder for you with a new one (i.e. re-using the old lock body). I think I paid about $45 for this. You can also order made-in-China door locks off of eBay. They're OK, not great, but certainly worlds better than the original worn-out locks. There are also some new/old-stock hatch locks available, although they're a bit pricey. A locksmith can key all the locks to the same key for you. Be warned, though, that there are two different key styles. Check photos very carefully for the groove patterns before you order. A locksmith can put either style of cylinder into your ignition lock housing. (The new cylinder is made in China/Taiwan, BTW, but it works fine.)

[Captain Obvious]

I annotated the pic identifying the parts of the lock. What I'm calling them, anyway.

I haven't given up on fixing this myself. I've got the skills, just not the parts. Right now, I'm running with the bent tumblers (wafers) removed. I just put everything back together and left the bent ones out. Works, but is "less secure". Again, I fear the flatbed more than the lock pick.

I'm assuming my hatch and passenger door locks are fine. I expect they would get the least amount of use. Certainly nothing like what the driver's door and ignition would see.

[Captain Obvious]

I don't know if the annotated pic is showing up, so I'm trying again:

[Captain Obvious]

Well my first foray into the junkyards was unsuccessful... Nissan changed their lock designs to a double sided tumbler design* sometime before 1986 and made the tumblers wider as part of that change. The new ones won't fit earlier locks:

I don't know when they made the change, but the oldest Nissan I could find in my local U-Pull was a 1986 pickup. Apparently not old enough.

*The new design uses both sides of the key at the same time. Our keys are cut on both sides, but that's for convenience only so you can put the key into the lock and it will work either way. On the early Z locks, you could theoretically get your key cut on just one side only and it would still work if you inserted it the right way.

The difference is that on the newer designs, half the tumblers are actuated by one side of the key, and the other half are actuated by the other side of the key at the same time. Not that it matters, but I think it's a better design because the forces of the tumbler springs being on both sides of the key will help keep the key centered in the lock, unlike what we have where all the tumbler springs always push the key in the same direction. The new design has got to be better for minimizing wear inside the cylinder plug.

[FastWoman]

The problem with old cylinders is that the key guide also wears out, so that you can eventually start the car with a house key, screwdriver, or popsickle stick (yes, I've done it). If I were you, I'd seriously consider replacing with new.