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lm71z

Installing Emblems- Drilling through paint

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The man I bought my 240z from had the car painted and didn't put the rear quarter panel emblems or the hood emblem back on the car. I have new emblems, but I'm worried that I'll crack the paint when I drill the holes for the emblems. I can see where the original holes are for the hood emblem, but I don't know how exactly I should drill so that I don't split the paint around the holes. Any ideas on how I can go about doing this safely?

Edited by lm71z

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I use a shape pointed Awl - where you can see the original hole - just push it though the filler in the existing hole with a gentle twisting motion. Put a little RTV on the mounting studs on the emblem, to fill the hole and reseal it to keep water/rust out.

Do you have a Series I or Series II 240-Z? The Series I cars did not have the fresh-air outlet on the rear quarter - so finding the original mounting holes may be harder... but usually if you look closely enough you can spot where they were filled in as well. It is easier to find on the Series II cars, because there is a larger hole for the vent, in addition to the mounting holes for the emblems..

If you have to drill though the paint - put masking tape on the paint - then use a center punch to establish a point for the drill bit to center. You can use a very sharpe center punch - or if you have one the Awl...

FWIW,

Carl B.

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That sounds like a good idea. I do have a Series 1 240z, so it will be tricky finding the holes for the quarter panel emblems behind the back windows. I'm probably going to have to find them from the inside and drill from the inside while putting pressure on the outside so I don't split the paint.

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Drilling through a fresh or relatively new painted surface is generally not a problem, but it can be. As long as there is good adhesion between subsequent layers of paint, primers, surfacers and the condition of the underlying coat(s) is good you should not have a problem.

There are many instances though where a new coat of paint has been applied over an aged layer of paint which should have been removed before painting. This was a common problem, when a car that was painted with lacquer was prepped and repainted with a modern paint system only to find it eventually checks and cracks, showing through the new paint. Even old enamel paint jobs that should have been removed can pose a problem down the road. I have removed old enamel paint jobs with nothing more than a razor blade, showing a total lack of adhesion with a previous paint job. Any paint job is only as good as all underlying work. Even an expensive 2 part multi-coat polyurethane paint job can be a problem when drilling through it or applying pressure on it when mounting trim/accessories. A trick used when drilling through thick poly is to run the drill in reverse with light pressure, heating the paint and making it more flexible and less likely to split, chip or crack, then put the drill in forward and drill the hole.

I know, it's a long answer to your question, but I just wanted to point out that your concern of the paint splitting is real. You have a good margin of safety from where the holes need to be drilled and the edges of the emblems before a "mistake" will show. Good luck!

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I had to deal with multiple layers of old paint when I was drilling out some holes and here's what I did.

Use a heat gun to slightly warm or heat the area. This will soften the paint enough to keep if from flaking or chipping when you drill or punch it with an awl. Mark the hole with a black marker, warm the area then tape it and drill it. No flaking or chipping.

Worked for me,

Dave.

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The rear hatch on my car had the holes filled where the deck emblems go. I removed the interior panel. From there I located the holes that were filled in. I used a very sharp L-Shaped pick to gently pluck out the filler and make a small hole in the paint. Then I went around to the top side and gently enlarged the hole to full size.

I would recommend taking the interior panels out to locate the holes.

Good luck!

Marty

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Yeah I am going to take the interior panels off to find the holes for the quarter panel emblems. I just installed the hood emblem and I drilled the holes perfectly; the drill bit went right through the bondo/filler like butter. I put some RTV adhesive/sealer on the studs of the emblem, but the emblem wobbles back and forth a lot now that it's installed. Is the hood emblem supposed to fit completely tight?

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I just took one of the interior panels off to try and find the holes for the rear quarter panel emblems, and I see no way of finding them. There is a piece of metal covering the area where the holes would be. Has anyone put these emblems on when the holes were filled? The holes for the hood emblem were easy to see, but I cannot see the holes for the rear quarter panel emblems from the outside.

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I just took one of the interior panels off to try and find the holes for the rear quarter panel emblems, and I see no way of finding them. There is a piece of metal covering the area where the holes would be. Has anyone put these emblems on when the holes were filled? The holes for the hood emblem were easy to see, but I cannot see the holes for the rear quarter panel emblems from the outside.

That's right, there is only 5/8" space there and an angle drill won't fit either. You need someone to send you a template, so you can locate the holes...or try this. It could be possible to direct enough light from the backside, so the holes will show in the dark. It won't work if the holes have been welded up and it would also depend on how much filler was used to cover the holes. You have nothing to lose trying this and if it doesn't work, I could make you a template. I have a '70 with the panels and emblems off at present.

PS - One other option would be to drill holes just large enough in the inside panel that is blocking access, so you can use your drill with a long bit from the backside.

Edited by geezer

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I put some RTV adhesive/sealer on the studs of the emblem, but the emblem wobbles back and forth a lot now that it's installed. Is the hood emblem supposed to fit completely tight?

The hood emblem MUST be very secure - - otherwise it will blow off at speeds above 65/75mph. I had to lose two before I figured that out.... da.....

If the holes are now too large - and the RTV was not strong enough to hold the emblem after it dried completely - - - - pull it out. Get some Silicon Cement and coat the mounting pegs with a good dab, then put a bead in the center of the emblem - so it bounds to the hood. After you push the emblem pegs into the holes, and push the center of the emblem down flush with the hood - remove the excess that will squeeze out.

There is a product named "Silicon GOOP" that is a silicon cement - if you use it, let it bond completely before you "check" it by trying to move the emblem. If you "check" it too soon, you break the bond... Let it set up for at least a day....

FWIW,

Carl B.

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I would bet that you are missing the clips that mount on the emblem posts. The Nissan part # is 63845-18000 clip-tubular. Nissanparts.cc has them for $1.38 each. Check with your local dealer. He can get them for you with this part #.

-Mike

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Mike is most likely right - the hole in the body is large enough to hold the emblem clips... which the emblem posts are supposed to push into.

Personally - I do not recommend using the clips for the emblem posts.. they are steel and they rust.. Far better to use RTV or Silicon Cement... seals the bare metal in the hole, doesn't rust and you can pry the emblems off without damage if necessary in the future.

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I would bet that you are missing the clips that mount on the emblem posts. The Nissan part # is 63845-18000 clip-tubular. Nissanparts.cc has them for $1.38 each. Check with your local dealer. He can get them for you with this part #.

-Mike

Do the clips you're referring to look like this?

f7_1_b.JPG

If that's what you referring to, those clips were on the emblem when I pushed the emblem through the holes.

Are these clips supposed to come with the hood emblem?

9e70_1.JPG

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Do the clips you're referring to look like this?

f7_1_b.JPG

If that's what you referring to, those clips were on the emblem when I pushed the emblem through the holes.

Are these clips supposed to come with the hood emblem?

9e70_1.JPG

Yes, the first picture is the clips I was referring to. I have not seen the clips in the second picture used to mount any emblems.

If your emblems don't fit tightly with the post clips attached I would guess the holes may be been enlarged at some point.

Carl, if you use the emblem clips with silicon or RTV maybe that would help with the rusting issue, or maybe even paint the clips before using them?

-Mike

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Also, this is a bit off topic, but on HLS30-00210 I was having a really tough time removing the emblems from the rear hatch. I took off the inner hatch panel and the emblems were held in with the same rectangular clips that hold the center emblems on hubcaps. You could tell they were original to the car and had never been touched. I had never seen that before. All the others I have seen were mounted with the tubular clips pictured above. Have you seen that before Carl?

-Mike

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I took the hood emblem off because the RTV adhesive/sealer I used was definitely not holding the emblem securely in place. I bought Clear Silicone RTV Adhesive/sealer. Since I know now that it doesn't work, what kind of adhesive should I buy? I want to get it right this time because I don't want to chip anymore paint off from around the holes on the hood. Should I even be using any kind of silicone adhesive? Silicone doesn't seem to adhere to the paint very well at all.

Edited by lm71z

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If the silicone RTV adhesive is not sticking to the paint well, you might try some wax and grease remover in the area around the holes. You mentioned considering using JB Weld, but then edited that out. I would definitely NOT recommend that, as it would be permanent. Some people also use some 3M double sided emblem tape if they break off mounting posts, so you could give that a try. Is your emblem metal or plastic?

-Mike

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It's plastic. Were they originally metal?

Early ones were metal. I'm not sure when they transitioned to plastic. If you were mounting a metal hood emblem I would make certain it fit tightly and the double sided tape alone may not be enough to hold it. I think the tape should work fine for a plastic one and a plastic one would do less damage if it ever does come off.

-Mike

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#12746 still had metal emblems, 10/70. #37705 (7/71) has plastic, except for the pillars.

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The double sided tape seems like a good idea, but wouldn't it eventually lose its grip to the paint after water getting underneath the emblem? Does anyone know of any other adhesive that would secure the emblem tightly to the hood? I realized that the RTV adhesive I bought says in fine letters- "Does not adhere to paint".

Edited by lm71z

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I took the hood emblem off because the RTV adhesive/sealer I used was definitely not holding the emblem securely in place. I bought Clear Silicone RTV Adhesive/sealer. Since I know now that it doesn't work, what kind of adhesive should I buy? I want to get it right this time because I don't want to chip anymore paint off from around the holes on the hood. Should I even be using any kind of silicone adhesive? Silicone doesn't seem to adhere to the paint very well at all.

"Silicon" and/or the man made "silicone" products are only one ingredient in any particular end use product.

Don't confuse RTV (Room Temperature Vulcanizing) synthetic rubber products - be they silicon based or not - presented as Adhesive/Sealers with Silicone Cements/Adhesives. In the case of the RTV Sealants - the "adhesive" part means that the RTV itself adheres to the surfaces that form the interfaces needing "sealing". RTV's vulcanize when brought to room temperatures and exposed to air. They are NOT glues nor cements intended to strongly bond two different parts together.

The products such as Electric Products Inc. produce - by the brand name of Automotive GOOP, Household GOOP, Plumbers GOOP are silicon based Adhesives/Cements. They ARE formulated to bond things together, while remaining pliable over their lifetime. They dry by evaporation of the solvents that keep them semi-liquid. So far, I haven't found anything that stuff won't bond together with a very strong bond.

FWIW,

Carl B.

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So if I use some Automotive GOOP for the emblem, will it also seal the holes and prevent any rust from forming?

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