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Filler Cap...


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Ok, I am about to scream...

Every time that I corner hard to the left, I get gas dripping down the side of the car and fumes from hell in the cabin.

These caps can be sealed, right? As in, they are not vented?

Can you get a replacement cap? I am sure that mine is not sealing (obviously) and I was curious to anyone that has fixed this issue.

I am also getting fumes inside the cabin when the window is down, I have sealed the trunk hatch and now I will check the gaskets around the tail lights, the fuel smell is about to drive me nuts. I get used to it and when a passenger gets in I get that, "your car smells like gas..." line.

Good thing my brain cells are already toast.

Thanks for the direction on both the cap and the fumes....

Have a great night.

~Brian

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New caps are available.

As for the fumes, are they fuel fumes, or exhaust fumes? Two totally different issues. Exhaust fumes require all the seals and such to be fresh and tight. But fuel fumes are from all the vent hoses, which run inside the car! I just finished doing mine last weekend. Replacing these hoses requires the tank be dropped. Other than that, not too tough.

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Well Arne,

I am going to go with both, but I think that the most prevelant smell is fuel, I did smell exhaust with the window down, (especially if I get on it.)but the sealing of the hatch helped that, I just need to check the rest of the seals (tail light and such...) and see that they are not the normal cracked that I am used to seeing.

I'll look into a filler cap tomorrow, this should be interesting.

Where did you get the hoses from? Hopefully I can get this all addressed before the Canby event...

Thanks. I appreciate the help as always.

~Brian

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The filler cap would be my last choice. Check the flat rubber gasket inside the cap and if it looks half way decent, it is probably not the culprit. My bet would be a vent hose. Fuel fumes are flat out dangerous and I suggest some urgency to resolving the problem.

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Hi Brian (everyone))

To each his own.... but for the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would replace, rather than eliminate the fuel vapor hoses that run into the cabin. It was a stop gap measure at best, to comply with the California ARB rules in effect in 1970. Wasn't even required in the other 49 States nor Canada at the time. You can't see any of them without taking the car apart either...

If you have fuel dripping down the side of the car, just behind the right rear wheel - you most likely need to replace the Fuel Filler Neck - the long, large rubber hose that connects the fuel filler to the fuel tank. They dry out and crack, when you put the nozzle of the gasoline pump in them, then lean on the pump handle.

FWIW,

Carl B.

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I do want to eliminate the hoses, I really see no point... I need to search the forum and see what hoses to cap off or whatever.

The fuel is running up the hose and going past the cap upon a hard left. I tested this out yesterday in Target parking lot, luckily, the cop that was having lunch in said parking lot was busy eating or I may have had an issue there...

The fuel smell is only there if I have a window down and invite the neg pressure in. I plan on checking the hoses and gaskets (in the tail lights) this weekend.

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I am about Z'd out this weekend...

After the seats I decided to tackle the fumes issue.

So, did my homework on the threads and sure enough, there was a breach in the lower portion of the rear quarters. I sealed those up, and that seems to have cured the exhaust smell...

The fuel smell was STILL THERE.

So I inspect that waste-of-time canister on the passenger side. Well there is a hose MISSING, MAYBE THAT'S IT.

As I can tell, Its the hose that goes back down to the tank on the drivers side.

Here is the question, I just put a hose on there and capped off the hose.

Is that gonna fly?

The hose is sealed, it is not on the tank, I am just wanting to make sure that I am not messing with air flow and such for fuel supply.

Thanks.....

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  • 2 weeks later...
Hi Brian (everyone))

To each his own.... but for the life of me, I can't understand why anyone would replace, rather than eliminate the fuel vapor hoses that run into the cabin. It was a stop gap measure at best, to comply with the California ARB rules in effect in 1970. Wasn't even required in the other 49 States nor Canada at the time. You can't see any of them without taking the car apart either...

If you have fuel dripping down the side of the car, just behind the right rear wheel - you most likely need to replace the Fuel Filler Neck - the long, large rubber hose that connects the fuel filler to the fuel tank. They dry out and crack, when you put the nozzle of the gasoline pump in them, then lean on the pump handle.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Hullo Carl B.

I have plenty of problems with aged and leaking hoses on my 1973 JDM Fairlady 240Z. Earlier today I checked for forums re these hoses etc and read Arne's posted on May 02, 2007. Following a good read I checked my Aussie parts CD and cannot find comparable part #'s to match those provided by Arne.

I then spent some considerable time draining tank and removing old hoses. Some had certainly been there since new!! All my hoses match the descriptions provided by Arne. I was going to start my search for replacements tomorrow (Monday), then I read your Post quoted above.

I imagine it will cost some $200 to $300 to replace them all, so I am interested in your comment that the Vent Tank and hoses can be dispensed with. That makes sense, but can you give me some guidance on how to do that please?

I will need to replace the fuel outlet and return hoses as I go. There is also a 6mm (1/4 inch) hose that links the top of Vent tank to front Cannister (described as an Air Supplier tube in my Workshop Manual). Should I retain this somehow??

Can I block off all the other outlets from the fuel tank? There is one on the left hand end of fuel tank (14mm outlet) which runs across the inside back of car to Vent Tank. There is another (17mm outlet) on the top rear of tank that comes inside car near right tail light assembly, then to Vent Tank. There is one (10mm Outlet on top front of fuel tank) that comes into car behind right rear wheel arch and onto Vent Tank. Finally there is a horseshoe shaped hose (19mm or 3/4" outlet) that connects Vent tank to neck of fuel filler.

Carl could you please advise how I might go about re-plumbing this "mess" so I end up with less cost and fewer potential leak areas??

Any comments/feedback that others can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Regards, Jack

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Hullo Carl B.

I have plenty of problems with aged and leaking hoses on my 1973 JDM Fairlady 240Z. .....snipped....

....snipped... I am interested in your comment that the Vent Tank and hoses can be dispensed with. That makes sense, but can you give me some guidance on how to do that please?

Any comments/feedback that others can provide would be greatly appreciated.

Regards, Jack

Hi Jack:

Dogma240- aka Dave wrote a good article about how to eliminate the evaporative emissions controls.

In the menu at the left - hit the hyper-link that says "Fourms"

THEN:

-Publication Forums

- - Technical Articles

- - - Articles From Our Members

- - - - Treating inside/outside of gas tank with POR-15 and removing evaporation tank

Or the direct URL.... <a href=http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19034 TARGET=NEW> Dave's Article </a>

The information you want is somewhat intermixed with the entire fuel tank refresh.. but pay close attention to Post #14.... that 180 degree turn, held open with rigid tubing is very important....{1/4" copper elbows fit just fine inside the 5/8's fuel line)...If you use just fuel line, it will kink and shut off the vent...

At Post #11 Dave used a threaded nut to cap off one of the vents... I used a 1/4" copper pipe cap and JB Weld... worked great..

hope that helps,

Carl B.

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Hullo All

Thanks for your inputs. After reading other Posts and reviewing what I have in front of me I believe I can sort this one out. Certainly a complicated set up with so many different hoses of different sizes.

I feel confident I can either fix problem with Vent Tank (new hoses) or just have the main hose (19mm or 3/4") with the 180 degree bend from top of fuel tank to fuel filler. I have made contact with Australian supplier who has this pipe new, so that is the main hose dealt with. He will also supply me with a new fuel filler tube. I don't want any issues with it, so better to replace now whilst all the gear is off the car, than come back to it later. The other hoses are more straight forward.

Now I will get on with it.

Thanks again for your collective help!!

Regards, Jack

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If you eliminate ALL the gas tank vent hoses you'll have problems, they do more than just keep the car legal in California. The filler cap makes an air tight seal when in good condition, so you need a small vent for pressure relief and to be a vacuum breaker. For safety that line needs to contain (or be small enough to be) a flame arrestor. The little vent hose from the vapor/liquid separator tank to the engine in the quarter panel does that job, and the separator needs a low point liquid drain back to the gas tank. Finally, early Z gas tanks need one fairly large high point vent to fill completely because the filler neck enters well down on the side.

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Hi DaveN:

I believe that Dave's article referenced - addresses your concerns. It reduces the number of vapor lines in the cabin from 5 to 1. It retains the vent line to the engine compartment so air is replaced in the tank as gas is drawn out. It eliminates leaking/cracked vapor canisters and the usually cracked plastic connector from the filler.

Arne:

There may or may not be issues with the use of copper for fuel lines - but it's limited exposure and use for a vent line is unlikely to present any problems. Nonetheless if anyone can find handy replacements other than copper - I can't see how it would hurt.

Jack seems to have found an OEM replacement with a molded in 180 degree turn.. so that only leaves the possible replacement of the plastic connector between it and the filler neck.

Jack:

Not a bad idea to replace the fuel filler neck - but if you take the old one out, and find it's still good, hang on to it - - they are getting expensive and sooner or later they well be NLA...

FWIW,

Carl B.

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Hullo Carl B.

Thanks for your comments. I am waiting for the hose with the 180 deg. bend and the furl filler "neck" to arrive, but have obtained all the other hoses - cost about AUD55.00. Overall I will be happy to go ahead and reuse the metal Vent Tank with all new hoses and a new filler neck. That way all the issues regarding filling and venting will be taken care of.

I will ensure a good seal where hoses enter the cabin through grommets etc. With new hoses and clamps those many potential problem areas for fumes/fuel leaks will be dealt with. The generic hoses are good quality, so hopefully will outlast me on the car!!

Thanks again for your help.

Regards, Jack

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just to pull this back,

I was wondering . . .

I have been noticing this recently with my 73. Now, the PO actually had the tank POR'ed inside, but not outside. He also had the hoses replaced with all factory parts. NOW, he didn't replace the filler neck ( from start of filler cap to the tank. I took a look yesterday at it and it has NO cracks or anything, BUT i noticed that after a hard left i have a streak of gas down the rear of the car from the filler door. So, i read on the forums about the Wate Disposal gasket at AceHardware and went ahead and repalced it. It did help, but i still get a small amount of it seeping out. So i took another look and noticed that there is a rubbery like thin gasket that is held down by the neck and (i think) 3 screws. I was wondering if this gasket could be replaced without having to buy a new neck? Is this part of the neck, or is it a replaceable gasket? I really do think this is my minor problem.

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That so called gasket you are referring to is really what is left of the rubber flap that was there to prevent the gas cap from hitting the fender when you filled the tank . Remember the cap was attached to a chain and it is connected inside he filler neck . Arne is right have a good look at the plastic connection on the filler neck . You will need to remove the inner trim panel to expose this and the evap tank . While in there have a close look at all the vent hoses and check for any leaks there also. Gary

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Hullo All

I have recently replaced all the Fuel and Vent hoses at the rear of the vehicle, together with the fuel filler neck (complete unit) and the rubber flap that protects the paint work from the filler cap.

The fuel filler was expensive (AUD136) and the hose with the 180 deg bend was too short to reach the Vent tank!! I had to join this with other new hose. I used a brass joiner for that connection and also replaced the plastic 3/4" joiner for the fuel filler with a brass one also.

Job is now complete and it is much better having no more fuel vapours wafting around. Hopefully all those problems are now solved for many more years.

Regards, Jack

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  • 2 weeks later...

I do not believe it is the filler neck. I believe it's the vent hoses. If you are not showing your car Becks idea of reducing 5 to 1 is excellent. This is a knowledgable man. The rubber gasket around the cap is not the problem. It is not as danmgerous as one of the above mentioned as long as you don't smoke oin the car. If it were that dangerous half of the old Z cars on the road today that smell of fumes from the back of the car would have exploded. Do not be frightened by that comment but do get it fixed if the odor bothers you.

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