Jump to content

IGNORED

New book?


Recommended Posts


Gee,

The first book, Brian Long's, is new and I have not read it. I understand from Brian that it is a more comprehensive work spanning a longer period of time and covering more model history than his frst book. I plan to get it to add to my collection.

The second book, "Project X", is a tanslated version of the original NHK Project X Manga by Akira Yokoyama. The NHK Project X is also credited to chief producer Akira Imai. It is published in native Manga which reads right to left, or backwards to western publications. The text is in illustrated form similar to what westerners would call a comic book and describes the story of the 240Z in a dramatic theme with Yutaka Katayama as the hero of the plot. In my opinion, the illustrations are superb. The cast of characters include Yutaka Katayama, Yoshihiko Matsuo, Hitoshi Uemura, Hiroo Miyate, Teiichi Hara, Akio Yoshida, and Masataka Usami. Any knowledgable reader will recognize the story line and the charaters, however the accuracy of precise historical fact is doubtful. I have been told that Mr. K refered to the work as "the hollywood version". I found great delight with the book which became available last March and would recommend it, however I see no point in discussing any historical significance. The reader will pick up many points which may or may not have basis in historical fact. One thing I did enjoy was the reference to the Japanese Showa calendar which we commonly find on date stamps and other dated part references discussed in past threads here on this club site.

Z-Zulu.bmp

Link to post
Share on other sites
The second book, "Project X", is a tanslated version of the original NHK Project X Manga by Akira Yokoyama.

Surely Gee's link shows the original untranslated Japanese version? Are you getting it mixed up with the English translation version that was recently published? The cover is certainly quite different.

I have been told that Mr. K refered to the work as "the hollywood version".

That's interesting. Matsuo san described it to me in those exact same words. That's a coincidence isn't it?

Kind of a microcosm of S30-series Z authorship history going on there......... :classic:

Alan T.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Kind of a microcosm of S30-series Z authorship history going on there......... :classic:

Alan T.

Yet another reason for a member-collective book, Chris has already warmed and cooled some ink, Alan...

Will

Link to post
Share on other sites
Surely not! The product description lists the recent publication date in English. Your'e picking on me, Alan. :)

LOL

I wouldn't dare pick on you.

But seriously, the link shows a picture of the second Japanese edition from 2004 ( it was first published in 2003 ) which had the space on the lower front cover for the Carlos Ghosn mugshot slipover, which I use as the bullseye on my darts board.

I thought the English-language version has the picture of the SCCA-type race car on the front cover?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Yet another reason for a member-collective book, Chris has already warmed and cooled some ink, Alan...

Will

Don't look at me for a while. I'm busy moving home.

I don't know where anything is at the moment........ :(

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Gareth:

I have read the "Project X - 240-Z" book and there are several factors I really appreciated about it. I'll go so far as to say that personally, it's the best, most accurate and most complete "STORY" written about the creation of the Datsun 240-Z.

I'll agree with Chris in that we can question many of the individual facts, specific dates and other minute points... but in the end, in my opinion, the over-all "Story" is as concisely laid out and interesting to read as you will find.

If you are new to the Z Car, this should be the first or second book you read. (the other being the story of the Z Car as written by Katayama/Matsuo). If you are an old hand at this subject, have read everything else and done as much research as possible - you'll see lots of the very interesting tid-bits scattered around in many other places - drawn together here in a more comprehensive manor than ever before.

I said I appreciated several factors about the Project X- 240-Z book - so I'll list them in brief.

1. It's fun to read (just make sure you start at what we would consider the Rear Cover and as Chris mentioned read Right to Left;-)

2. It's a book about people and business so it puts the story in proper context as far as I am concerned.

3. It gives you a far more complete story about the Z Car than any previous book. From Concept, to Full Development, to Road Testing in the USA... followed up by the 25th Anniversary Celebration of the Z here in the USA 1995.

4. It gives you a good, if too brief insight to the workings, interpersonal relationships and politics of the Corporate Culture. (which many believe really destroyed Nissan Motors Ltd.)

5. It follows the origins of the Z Car from the correct starting point as far as I'm concerned- (Matsuo, Katayama and the Datsun 510) - with no mention of the old school roadsters, nor Mr. Goertz. Hurray!! These guys got it right!!

6. Being a story about people and business, it includes more about, more of, the people involved than any previous book or magazine article; and thus answers a lot of questions that readers of the previous books were left with. It also pulls together in one place many very interesting side notes not discussed in previous books about the Z.

If you don't have a copy - I'd encourage you to order a couple copies and save on the shipping costs. Read and keep one for yourself - and give a copy to another fellow Z Car lover.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Carl Beck

Clearwater, FL USA

http://ZHome.com

Link to post
Share on other sites
I have read the "Project X - 240-Z" book and there are several factors I really appreciated about it. I'll go so far as to say that personally, it's the best, most accurate and most complete "STORY" written about the creation of the Datsun 240-Z.

Carl,

Did you "read" the original Japanese issue, or the 'translated' English-language version? The link that Gee provided showed the Japanese issue I believe.

"240-Z" is not mentioned in the title, frontispiece, back cover or spine of the original Japanese issue - so I presume you must be quoting from another ( different ) publication.

Alan T.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely we are talking about TWO distinctly different books here?

The one I have is the original Japanese language version, and the other must be the 'translated' English language version. Both are by the same author, but the content ( like the cover ) appears to have been slightly tweaked to appeal to an English-speaking audience. Note the different covers and titles:

post-2116-14150797484299_thumb.jpg

post-2116-14150797485081_thumb.jpg

post-2116-14150797485587_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
Carl,

Did you "read" the original Japanese issue, or the 'translated' English-language version? The link that Gee provided showed the Japanese issue I believe.

"240-Z" is not mentioned in the title, frontispiece, back cover or spine of the original Japanese issue - so I presume you must be quoting from another ( different ) publication.

Alan T.

Hi Alan:

Yes - the English-language version. While the link to Amazon shows the Japanese cover - the description shows the language as English. The ISBN matches the English version I have - not the different ISBN for the Japanese version.

ISBN 1-56970-957-2 for the paperback.

So if anyone orders the book from Amazon - with the ISBN 1-56970-957-2, the'll get the English version.

FWIW,

Carl

Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason I posted the Amazon link to the Project X book was because it was the easiest photo I could find. I accidently stumbled across it when I typed "datsun" into the computer in my local Borders bookshop - as you can imagine I was a little stunned when it came up!

So has anyone ever bothered to compile a list of Z book over and above the usual 1 page mention in a "Best of Classic Cars" type compilation? Maybe Alan and Carl could join forces on this one?LOL

Thanks for your long and in-depth answers BTW, without you two CZC's would be a far less interesting/knowledgeable place.

Do you have an ISBN for the Katayama/Matsuo book Carl?

On another note, I see that the Z is featured in the latest Classic Cars Magazine. I found the "reasons to walk away" section interesting. Their comments could make the Z much more sought after in the UK!!

Gareth

Link to post
Share on other sites
While the link to Amazon shows the Japanese cover - the description shows the language as English. The ISBN matches the English version I have - not the different ISBN for the Japanese version.

ISBN 1-56970-957-2 for the paperback.

So if anyone orders the book from Amazon - with the ISBN 1-56970-975-2, the'll get the English version.

Carl,

Watch out for typos. One of the above ISBNs must be wrong........

ISBN for the original Japanese version is ISBN4-87287-899-X.

So we are talking about two fundamentally different versions here. Anyone who wants to order one might need to be careful about which version they require ( get both! ).

Gareth,

The ISBN for "Fairlady Z Story - Datsun SP/SR & Z" with contributions by Yutaka Katayama, Yoshihiko Matsuo, Hideaki Kataoka & Brian Long - published by MIKI PRESS in 1999 - is: ISBN4-89522-244-6.

That article in 'Classic Cars' is pretty much the usual fare I'm afraid. They don't seem to try all that hard with the pages they dedicate to the Z.

Cheers,

Alan T.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Carl,

Watch out for typos. One of the above ISBNs must be wrong........

ISBN for the original Japanese version is ISBN4-87287-899-X.

Oops.. thanks Alan.. one of these days I'll learn to copy/past... I corrected the error.

So we are talking about two fundamentally different versions here. Anyone who wants to order one might need to be careful about which version they require ( get both! ).

I don't know if they are fundamentally different versions - or just published in different languages.

I would think that the basic presentation of the story would be the same (yes/no?).

A quick and dirty summary of the sections of the English publication is:

Prologue - They Called It "Z" (the story starts in America as a young boy see's a 240-Z. Does it start in Japan in the Japanese version and a young boy in Japan?)

Chapter 1 - The Z Ensign - (Introduces Katayama, he starts the Tokyo Motor Show, dreams of producing his own Sports Car, runs the Rally in Australia in 58..which angers his management chain - he is cast out to America.... his brother gives him the Z Ensign flag as a going away present)

Chapter 2 - The Dream Sports Car - (Introduces Matsuo - he dreams of designing a car - goes to work for Nissan and is somewhat an "out of the box" thinker... who speaks to bluntly about the 411.. then gets to fix it so to speak, comes up with the image change to the SSS... and in 65 is reassigned to the Sports Car Design Studio..meets resistance to his plan "A" etc. )

Chapter 3 - Convergence - (Introduces Hiroo Miyate, Katayama in L.A. and Masataka Usami as Service Engineer in US in 1960; 1965 Matsuo in the studio, Hara introduces Matsuo to Katayama, )

Chapter 4 - Project Z - (with Katayama's selection of Matsuo's plan "A" and Nissan Managements approval - plan "A" moves from concept to full development. Matsuo fights to keep his original concept/styling clean... while engine is specified as six cylinder, and cab height must be raised so American's can fit with comfort... battles between Hisashi Uemura and Matsuo follow...

Chapter 5- - Fruition - (starts with American Road Test of Z, problem with front end shakes identified and solved, weak sugar scoop head nacelle identified and corrected,

Epilogue - The Z Reborn - (starts with Matsuo Tie Pin, Matsuo leaves Nissan, 25 years later in May of 1995 25th Anniversary of the Z Car Celebrated by US Z Car Clubs..Katayama invited back to the USA to attend. Z Across America Rally takes place.. Z Production stops, 1999 Renault takes over and assigns Carlos Ghosn.. 2002 New Z introduced

I know my summary is very brief - but is that basically what the Japanese book contains?

It would be interesting if there were significant differences..

FWIW,

Carl

Link to post
Share on other sites
...snipped...

So has anyone ever bothered to compile a list of Z book over and above the usual 1 page mention in a "Best of Classic Cars" type compilation? Maybe Alan and Carl could join forces on this one?LOL ...snipped....

Do you have an ISBN for the Katayama/Matsuo book Carl?

Gareth

Hi Garth:

Fairlady Z Story - DATSUN SP/SR & Z

by: Yutaka Katayama & Yoshikiko Matsuo

ISBN 4-89522-244-6

(translation by Brian Long, sold at 2002 ZCCA Convention)

If you don't have the translation - e-mail me and I'll loan you my copy in digital form. But you still need the book for the pictures etc. E-mail beck@becksystems.com

I have a partial listing of the reference books, magazine articles etc. related to the articles I've written on the Z Car Home Page at:

a href=http://zhome.com/History/Truth/BookList.htm TARGET=NEW> http://zhome.com/History/Truth/BookList.htm </a>

We also have book reviews and listings in the Library Section of the Z Car Home Page at: <a href=http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/Books/references.html TARGET=NEW> http://zhome.com/ZCMnL/Books/references.html</a>

If Alan wants to add the information about the books from Japan we can add them to the list in the Library.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Carl Beck

Clearwater, FL USA

http://ZHome.com

Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know if they are fundamentally different versions - or just published in different languages.

I would think that the basic presentation of the story would be the same (yes/no?).

Carl,

When I wrote "fundamentally different", I meant that they are two different publications with two different ISBN numbers and in two different languages. The fact that they are in different languages seemed to me to be a major point ( especially as you were discussing the English language version when Gee's link showed the cover of the Japanese version ). I didn't want anyone to order one and get the other - if you see what I mean?

I am sure that the presentation of the story - and most likely all the original drawings - have stayed the same, but I can already see some slight 'tweaking' towards the perceived customer base for the English language version. In the grand scheme of things this will probably make little difference, as the original Japanese version reflected the content of the NHK 'Project X' episode that it was based on. There are mistakes and historical errors, and a large part of the story is left out whilst the whole bias of the story seems to be based on Katayama having some kind of 'vision' for the Z and everybody else working towards making that vision a reality. That's a huge oversimplification in my view.

Katayama or no Katayama, Nissan would have built a 'replacement' or successor to the SP/SR anyway - and indeed this is what Matsuo and his team were working on when Katayama came into that part of the story. Such a car would inevitably have been sold in the world's biggest single market and would therefore have been designed with such in mind ( like most of the cars that were sold alongside it - although we rarely hear about them, except for the 510 perhaps ). Matsuo says he was working on designing a car firstly for himself ( hopefully we all understand what he means by that ) and secondly for Japan and the rest of the World - not just the USA market. That's where the USA-market centric part of the story grates; It is presented as though this was the single reason and aim for the car's existence - which is not the case, is it?

But I don't want to criticise either the original NHK episode or the manga too much. At the very least, they introduced the names and identities of many of the key players in the story and left out 'The Lying Count'. There is a lot here that we should be glad about - but I don't think anybody ( including the main characters themselves ) thinks of this as the 'definitive' historical version, and the manga itself was something of a fun spin-off to the TV show.

And Matsuo did say to me with a chuckle that he called the manga ".......the Hollywood version......". He pointed out a couple of things in the manga that had been changed to make the story 'play' a bit better, and one of these was the full story surrounding the Z signal flag - which he recounts fairly differently.

Alan T.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Carl,

can I pretty please bother you and receive the english translation by Brian Long for the Fairlady Z Story - DATSUN SP/SR & Z book? :)

I bough a copy while I was in Tokyo few years ago but always wanted to know the contents! (bottom three items in the attached picture, not the top two)

I have been told that this is a limited edition version of the "normal" Fairlady Z Story - DATSUN SP/SR & Z book???

post-1898-14150797497987_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've scanned the "Introduction" pages 02 & 03.. of the English version

The first paragraph pisses me off. It's like there was nothing between the 1959 P211, which could not hold it's own on the freeway, (48hp single throat Nikki, E motor) to the victory of the Z car. Nothing - a big hole - no RL411, no roadster, no 510, All Datsun's before the Z were junk. No that's really what is says, until the Z, all those other Nissan cars sat on the docks, ignored by the American consumer.

Please note - I'm describing my reaction to the first paragraph and not commenting on the value or merits of a book I haven't read.

Maybe it's that I'm not quite enough of a "Z" fan, and too much of a general early Nissan fan, to accept that. Or just need more therapy.

I spent last Saturday driving a sports car in a fashion that I believe for which it was designed. In that element, it's a masterpiece. I'm terribly sorry if I offend, but your Z car may be better, It may be the next phase in the evolution, But it's just not THAT much better. I'll venture to say, that with its loosey-goosey unitbody, it less of a sports car "out of the box" than it's full framed predecessor.

It's just that it seems that most I read revels in the commercial success of the Z and dismisses the design success before it. Sure in the corporate world, "Money Talks", but I'm a sports car enthusiast and not an accountant.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Holy Literary Misinterpretation Batman! It's a comic book! You think your'e pissed off now, Victor. Wait till you get to the part where Sgt. Rocka Michi san scraps three Toyotas with his bare hands whilst showing off his new Z ensign underwear! Come-on guys.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Holy Literary Misinterpretation Batman! It's a comic book!

I know that,, Really I do! That was the reason behind my disclaimer. My rant is valid though if you take the prevailing theme of not just this single paragraph, in this single manga (I like mangas - the sicko sexy pervert ones).

I have read quite a few books on Nissan history. Most of which have been discussed thoroughly on these forums. Most were written, in my opinion, heavily influenced by the commercial success of the Z and discount every thing else it did before as primitive and failures.

There are even prominent members of this forum that often express as much. My rant addresses that, by using the quoted paragraph as my voodoo doll. It set me off, but it, in it's self, is not wholly responsible. I did say that it is possible that I just need more therapy,, yes?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The next page in the Japanese edition shows that the car has a Japanese-market 'Z' emblem on its bonnet ( hood ) instead of the HLS30-U correct 'Datsun' emblem.

'Dad' explains that the car was "....named the 'Datsun 240Z' in America, and named 'Fairlady Z' in Japan."

Not your average Dad, then :-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Chris (everyone):

Years ago - I can't remember how many... Johnny Carson (the late night TV show host) had H. Ross Perot on as a guest. Perot was one of US's first self made Billionaires (long before he attempted to start a third political party and run for president).

Carson ask him what the secrete of his success was, to which Perot replied; "it's easy, you just watch what successful people do - and you do that."

Carson then ask for an example of what successful people do... to which Perot repled; "They hire the best people and then let them do their jobs; so that's what I do."

I believe that the heart of the "Project X" series, if I understand it correctly, is about reviewing what successful people had done in the past, with the hopes that it would help others be successful in the future..

If the book was simply "amusing reading at best".. well then you certainly got your ten or fifteen bucks worth out of it, but you may have missed most of its real value.

FWIW

Carl B.

Carl Beck

Clearwater, FL USA

http://ZHome.com

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.