Save S30-0002

[MikeW]

My eyes went following these points,

#1 Dash center vent,grilled

#2 Break master Vac is large type

#3 Steering wheel spoke has holes

#4 2 tool boxes in the rear deck

#5 rear suspention member"carved for a later defferential"

#6 Seats and carpet is not like 1969 assembled Z car

#7 rear quater panels has air vent

1,2,3,5, and 6 could have easily been changed at some point. #4 and #7 don't make sense to have been redone, especially #4. Is there any chance that this car is an one-off factory prototype of the later features? Could part of the shell been laying around the factory when someone later decided to go ahead and make it a production car? Perhaps a good way to determine the age would be to look for the type of hand made stitch welding that 26thZ pointed out earlier.

Your theory of forging the VIN seems strange to me. By the looks of the car that would have been done quite some time ago, perhaps before there was a true appreciation for the historical nature of these cars.

[MikeW]

One more theory: perhaps it was just a factory error. Presumably the firewall VIN was done by hand somehow. Perhaps this really should have been HS30-10002 and someone just made a mistake. Is there a matching VIN on the dash or any of the ID tags?

[S30TRBO]

kats,

Thank you very much for posting those pictures! It would be quite a bit of fun to see the car in person to fully appreciate what an undertaking to bring the car back to life.

[mdbrandy]

I don't know if Japanese models had fuel tank vapor collection tanks or not, but the 1969 production US cars didn't (at least mine and 26th-Z's don't), 1/70 production and later cars do. Since the gas tank is there, that might help date it if so.

[EScanlon]

Add to the list of incongruities:

#8 Hazard Light Switch has the "On-Off" Label Indent. This wasn't seen until late 71-early 72.

(It apparently ALSO had the very rare and rarely seen Fog Lamp Switch!)

#9 Illuminated Rear Window Defrost Switch. Again a later item, the early ones did not light up.

#10 Radio Faceplate seems to be for an 8 Track Player, although only AM Band. Although it could also be a radio without push knobs and therefore no hole in the face plate.

#11 Radiator Splash Pan. (I may be off on this one.) I was told that these didn't begin to appear until the engine overheating problems arose.

Ahhh, carcheology....

Enrique

[Ed]

Wow, what a great find!

Remember a while back someone mentioned that in order to reduce production costs, there were things that were "discontinued" or not used.

What if, this was one of the "prototypes" with all the bells and whistles like A/C, auto trans, tool boxes, vents, booster, etc...?

On another note. Look where the horn's should be. Is there a bracket of some kind there?

[Mr Camouflage]

Reading through all the this didnt belong on this because bla bla bla... Not appeared on model x untill whatever date..... etc.

When I look at the location of the people writing this, USA, Canada, I guess all your statments are based on knowledge of USA exports models.

You guys didnt even get a 5 speed untill the 280Z.

Remeber this is a JDM car.

Also its a very old car, and who knows who has swapped what out over the years.

If indeed it was a factory test mule then it makes sence that it would have all the later model mods, like auto. or late model tool boxes.

Imagine the nissan guys sitting around saying, Hey lets change the tool boxes, the old ones are a bit dodgey. Ok lets design it, press up some metal, go to the test mule and weld it in and see how it looks.

[1972zed]

Quarter panels look good. And noone put a (yech) sunroof in it back in '82 like everyone was doing.

[26th-Z]

I just spent an hour or so with all the pictures - in photoshop. I adjusted brightness and enlarged areas. I would love to see more photos of the tool box / rear deck area, please. Are the tabs for the earlier type of tool box welded in place? I notice the passenger floor is gone from one photo, but a foot rest and seat in another? Is the VIN plate in the engine bay gone? Looks like the car had air-conditioning. The rear-view mirror is not a red-dot.

This firewall photo bothers me the most. What is the marking around the serial number? The chassis is clearly a later design / type. I don't believe the metal pressings for the shapes in this chassis existed in 1969. If it were a "test mule", there would be evidence of welding from one chassis style to the later. For instance, the side vents in the rear quarter would normally have this cup welded inside. What about S30-00002? Dates on the wiring harnesses will provide more evidence. Long pig-tail fuse box, or short?

Thanks for sharing all this, Kats.

[theianmonster]

..................wow........................

[Mr Camouflage]

Looks like something was stuck over the top of the chassis number, and has left some residue behind. Theres seems to be an ID tag on the driver side strut, you can see it (a grey shaped square) in the 1st photo on page 1. Maybe that holds alot of the answers.

Also no one said this is a 1969 car. People are just assuming that it is, for whatever reason.

Like all the people with low vin HS30 do because they read somewhere the figures for HLS30 cars and assumed that theirs must also be of the same vintage.

I pesonally dont care what year the car was made, I dont care about the, "my cars earlier than yours" bull.... or what the welds look like. Heres an idea, lets get a micrometer and measure the thickness of the metal its made out of.

Its a Z. the VIN is cool whatever vintage it is, and its not too far gone to be restored. Just a bit dented up.

I'd just rather see it fixed than crushed, even if it ends up with an RB20DE with tripple webbers.

[EScanlon]

...snip...When I look at the location of the people writing this, USA, Canada, I guess all your statments are based on knowledge of USA exports models.

You guys didnt even get a 5 speed untill the 280Z.

Remeber this is a JDM car.

Also its a very old car, and who knows who has swapped what out over the years.

If indeed it was a factory test mule then it makes sence that it would have all the later model mods, like auto. or late model tool boxes.

Imagine the nissan guys sitting around saying, Hey lets change the tool boxes, the old ones are a bit dodgey. Ok lets design it, press up some metal, go to the test mule and weld it in and see how it looks.

Your reasoning is flawed.

You presume that because we live in North America that our knowledge is limited EXCLUSIVELY to this market's model availability. As you know many of us have been on this site a while, and have paid attention to Alan T's and Carl Beck's and Kats points on many of these specific points that we are making. Are you saying that we cannot learn, or that we purposely ignore those items.

Why would they make the molds for stamping out the metal on the rear deck and then revert to the molds without the tool box openings. Have you any idea how much the molds cost to make? The same reasoning applies to the dash.

The availability of a 5 speed manual transmission was already known as many Roadsters were delivered with it. The automatic transmission being available just not released was also a known item.

The fact that it is an old car is EXACTLY why the discussion regarding what does and doesn't BELONG on the car based on it's ORIGINAL production is so germaine.

If indeed it was a factory test mule, it wouldn't have such a low VIN that the features not available till years later would have been on it. As far as the engineers doing modifications on it, why would they bother to hide all their patch-in welds, and further do the bodywork to blend it in such that the welds aren't apparent? Even though it isn't cheap, it still would have been easier and cheaper to scrap this one and have a new one made with the new sheet metal being proposed. Would they have kept the same VIN? If so, to what end?

I'm thinking that because it is a JDM car, that the owner of the vehicle, and it could have been the engineers, kept adding the "new and improved" items to it. That would explain the addition of items that weren't seen till later model years.

It is the appearance of those items with such a low VIN that is so incongrous. If you'll recall the thread that sparked your initial posting that is this thread, the discussion centered around subtle differences between what was an "earlier" part and a "later" part.

Now you pop on and tell us that our "statments are based on knowledge of USA exports models" and therefore not only in error but biased on the basis of not knowing or remembering that it is a JDM car.

But I'll finish with this: Your post #22 says: "Though i'm sure Kats could advise Mr Harigae on the correct parts for such an early car."

but if I recall correctly in post #59 Kats posts: "My quick impression of this car is,"very complecated" or how do you say, "doutfu?l".Because so many parts seen in this car are known as "1971 model"...snip...So,generaly speaking,this car could be a 1971 car.But I do not know.

What a complecated thing is,the VIN punched on the fire wall." So Kats, who resides in Japan, is asking this predominantly North American group, about items that in his eyes are suspicious given the serial number of the car. I believe Kats is one of the more knowledgeable members of this group, why not ask him why he didn't request responses exclusively from outside North America?

Do a little calisthenics, reach up and over your head with each arm, grab the opposite ear, give a solid yank and get your head out and breathe some fresh air.

Enrique