Building the Ultimate Response RB!!!

[PROJECTRB240SX]

I'm Not Talking About Cooling Water.... I'm Talking About A Directiionally Sealed Box (one Inlet Port And One Outlet Port For Air Flow) Sealed Box With Two Cores And Blowing Open Air Through The A/c Evap Core And Through The Intercooler..... Having A Sealed Box Like That Would Contain The Ultra Cold Air Produced By The A/c System And Essentially Chill The Ic Down To Freezing Temps (with Such A Small Area To Cool A A/c Compressor Wouldn't Have To Work At All To Keep Up... Plus Remember The Only Source Of Heat Is The Ic Itself So The A/c Is More Than Efficient)

As For Water To Air Coolers... On The Street If You Barely Boost Why Bother? You'll Have Added Water Weight, Twice The Plumbing, And Twice The Heat Transfer Cores..... A Whole Lot Of Money And Work For A Few Degrees..... I Pose This Query To You Now At This Point: Why Do All The Gt And Road Race Cars Use Air To Air Ic Units If Water Is More Effective?

The Simple Fact Of The Matter Is That Using Ambient Air To Cool The Water Then The Water With Temps Higher Than Ambient To Cool The Charge Air There Is Going To Be Heat Build Up Much Like A Air To Air Cooler But Atleast The Air To Air Cooler Is Direct Transfer Not Using A Second Medium.

[Inf]

there is no free lunch

[Murph]

I'm Not Talking About Cooling Water.... I'm Talking About A Directiionally Sealed Box (one Inlet Port And One Outlet Port For Air Flow) Sealed Box With Two Cores And Blowing Open Air Through The A/c Evap Core And Through The Intercooler..... Having A Sealed Box Like That Would Contain The Ultra Cold Air Produced By The A/c System And Essentially Chill The Ic Down To Freezing Temps (with Such A Small Area To Cool A A/c Compressor Wouldn't Have To Work At All To Keep Up... Plus Remember The Only Source Of Heat Is The Ic Itself So The A/c Is More Than Efficient)

Mate, there's no two ways about it.....this wont even come close to working. The AC system would only be able to remove a fraction of the heat that will be delivered to the IC. I doubt such a system would even be able to maintain less than ambient intake temperatures while cruising.

Let just be fanciful and say you had a compressor and aircon system that was large enough to be capable to remove the heat, it'd require that much power from the engine to turn it, that the gains from the cooler intake air would pale in significance.

I could sit down and spell out all the theory for you to prove it, but it's pointless.

As Inf said, there's no free lunch. You can't just make power out of nothing. What you describe is as good as the perpetual motion machine! If you got this system to work (and broke the laws of thermodynamics, among others), you'll be a very famous man.

Sorry to sound harsh....but that's how it is.

Why Do All The Gt And Road Race Cars Use Air To Air Ic Units If Water Is More Effective?

You might like to be more specific as to what cars exactly you're refering to. Any can that's raced on a track for a decent length of time would most likely be better off with an air-air core as I explained above. For street use, spint racing or motorkhana, water-air is great.

As For Water To Air Coolers... On The Street If You Barely Boost Why Bother? You'll Have Added Water Weight, Twice The Plumbing, And Twice The Heat Transfer Cores..... A Whole Lot Of Money And Work For A Few Degrees.....

If you hardly ever boost your car on the street, then good on you champ. I'm talking about the average joe that does give it a hit here or there....go out for a play with the mates. Yes, water-air will weigh more air-air, but in it's favour:

•The cores used are much smaller, we're talking both cores combined will be smaller than an equivalent air-air core.

•It allows for a very short intake tract. Again, great if you want response.

•Simplified piping. You wont need 3-4" piping running to the front of the car, just a ~1.5" water pipe.

•Smaller core to mount at the front of the car, good for car that don't have much room up front and don't want a custom front bar.

...and that's just the looking at the physical setup of the system, not even looking at its cooling efficiency.

•Water to air will keep a cooler temperature for longer (up to a point)

•It wont instantly heat soak when there's no air flow. This makes it ideal for drag cars. They'll heat soak the an air-air core while doing the burnt out, greatly reducing the cooling ability of the core until they're they start getting good air flow past half track. A water to air system could store that entire quantity of heat in the water without getting anywhere near the temperature you'll see with the air-air core.

A good example is my mates SIV RX7 which he races in the local sprint racing series (typically around 5min on the track at a time). He built his own water-air setup, using two stock RX7 intercoolers in parallel, enclosed within a water bath (small, light, flows well and will effectively cool). The radiator used is an aluminium radiator from a small car, it's only about 1.5cm thick (so is easy to fit behind the stock bumper) and is also very light. This setup was a fraction of the cost of a large air-air core, intercools more effectively, allows for very efficient use of space, allows the stock bumper to be kept and has a very short intake path giving excellent throttle response (exactly what you want in sprint racing). This is producing ~200rwkw btw.

Mind you, there's nothing wrong with air-air intercoolers, they're by far the simplest, no fuss solution.....but they're a long way from being the best.

[Nota280]

Just wanted to add a note about Building the Ultimate Response RB.

How about an RB24DET? Use the crank and rods from an RB26.

http://meggala.com/rb24.html

I was going to build one of these just to be different. Most likely I will end up selling the RB26 crank and rods and the RB20DET.

Now I have an RB30 block and will be using the RB26DETT top end.

The never ending quest to be different! :stupid:

[Murph]

One of my mates has been seriously thinking of building a RB22/23/24 combination. I think in the end he decided the result wouldn't be worth the money that would be spent. An RB30DET using the 26 head.....that'll be a monster!

[Nota280]

Money always seems to be the issue with the RB24 setups. In the end I like to think of it as ones ability to scrounge around for the parts.

I have more time than money invested in my part accumulations.

I am in the United States. I have a 1978 Fairlady-Z, a RB30 block, RB26DETT head, and a complete RB20DET motorset plus loads of other RB stuff. None of these items were ever sold or made for the US domestic market.

I acquired everything through various methods, like ebay, the various automotive forums and even a local importer. You will decide in your own mind if an item is to expensive. Trust me, another one will always come along. It all comes down to patients.