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firing order with photos


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#1
MEZZZ

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Hopefully you guys can help me clarify things for me. Can you take a look at my photos and tell me that I have my dist. wires correct? I did a search and the photo I found is in the same order as mine but it looks to be like my wires (red Taylor) seem to be one off on the dist. cap. I looked in my Haynes manual and it seemed a bit confusing to me as far as the cylinder order and firing order. Also, if someone could let me know what this plug is for in the last phot I would appreciate it greatly. I took care in replacing the wires one at a time but just need some clarification. BTW, its a '77 280Z.
Thanks
Posted Image

Is this the correct order?

Posted Image
My dist

Posted Image
Photo I found online, please note the #1 seems to be off one compared to mine
Posted Image
Plug I cannot find pictured anywhere
thanks
1977 280Z
I'm great at taking my Z apart, putting it back together has been a whole different story.

#2
Friar-Tuck

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If you notice the location of the clip on the dist. caps #1 is on the same terminal in both photo's.
The plug is the Cylinder Head Temp Sensor (CHTS) for the E.F.I.
Tuck \o/

#3
MEZZZ

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I did notice the location of the clip being similar, what threw me off a little was the location of the wire going to the coil being in between #1 and #5 and mine running between #5 and #3.
Thanks for the heads up on the CHTS, I breezed thru the EFI bible last night trying to find something on this. I would think that should be connected but I will be damned if I can find any wire remotely close to it. I looked at the wiring diagram (not my forte by any stretch) and cant find the CHTS on it either.
Any idea where on the wiring harness I can look for this? I am assuming it is part of the EFI wiring harness.
1977 280Z
I'm great at taking my Z apart, putting it back together has been a whole different story.

#4
sblake01

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The CHTS is not used on a 77 or any S30. It's a ZX thing. And the photo of your distributor is correct. The picture you found seems to be rotated a little too far counter clockwise. It's set way to the retarded side and unless he has is distributor drive incorrectly mounted, his car will run like shi+ that way.
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#5
MEZZZ

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The CHTS is not used on a 77 or any S30. It's a ZX thing. And the photo of your distributor is correct. The picture you found seems to be rotated a little too far counter clockwise. It's set way to the retarded side and unless he has is distributor drive incorrectly mounted, his car will run like shi+ that way.


Thanks Stephen, as always, your knowledge astounds me. It makes sense now that I saw nothing in the FSM about it. I did a Google search last night and found an article on it but it was a 280ZX. Now I am going to have to go out and check the numbers on the motor, I am assuming if it is a ZX thing that the head or entire motor has been swapped. I've never checked to see if the numbers matched.
Thanks as well for the clarification of the pic. I did notice it was skewed compared to mine. I am learning as I go and it is very helpful to have this board and people like you to help educate me, I am a s-l-o-w learner though and still have a l-o-n-g way to go :)
1977 280Z
I'm great at taking my Z apart, putting it back together has been a whole different story.

#6
MEZZZ

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Well, I just got back from the garage and it seems I have an N42 block with a P79 head. That answers the question on the CHTS. Now, I just have to figure out why it is running rough and billowing black smoke when I accelerate. I pulled the A.F.M. tonight, boots are soft and crack free. Cleaned the connector and ground. Too late to mess with it anymore tonight, tomorrow's another day.
1977 280Z
I'm great at taking my Z apart, putting it back together has been a whole different story.

#7
sblake01

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As long as you have the items that should be on a 77, i.e. thermotime switch, water temperature sensor, cold start valve, etc., and they're hooked up as per the 77 setup with good connections, everything should work. Which AFM do you have? The one from the 77 or the later one? The only reason I ask that is that the 77 would still have the contact points for the fuel pump and the ZX AFM wouldn't.
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#8
MEZZZ

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Stephen, I will look into wether the AFM is original. I bought this car as an "original, unrestored, unmolested car". The PO lied about everything else I have found up to this point so why not the AFM as well :)
I did see the thermotine, cold start and water temp and they are all hooked up. I ended last night at pulling the connectors and giving them a good dose of contact cleaner. There never seems to be enough time to do what I want on this car though, between the demands of work and family and everything that goes along with it, it leaves very little time :(
Have you ever wanted to vacation in beautiful CINCINNATI? :) I'll hook you up if you do...restaurants, nice hotel, beer, etc in exchange for a little garage time LOL
1977 280Z
I'm great at taking my Z apart, putting it back together has been a whole different story.

#9
sblake01

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One way to tell if you have a later than 1977 AFM is to look at the connection on it. If it appears to be missing one terminal it's a 78 or later, if it has all 6 of them it's a 75-77.
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#10
Rockr69

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I kinda feel foolish asking this especially with all of Stephen's knowledge about Datsun's, (you ROCK! Stephen), but if your head has the CHTS on the side, as does my Maxima, do you have the proper 77 thermostat housing with the CHTS mounted in the front? It was hard to tell from your photos if all the connectors were present. Stephen can correct me if I'm wrong, but it should have the thermotime switch and the CHTS side by side in the front. And if not hooked up it would explain the black smoke and rough running condition.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Dan

1976 280z HLS30-299271
1983 Maxima (my Hooptie)
1990 F-150 4X4
1989 Honda Accord (Wife's Car)

#11
sblake01

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It's not a cylinder head temperature sensor on the water outlet. That's just a water temperature sensor. Different setups after 1979. There's actually no place to plug in a CHTS on a 280Z.
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#12
MEZZZ

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Thanks for the clarification again. I am very discouraged right now as I cant even get it to start now. It cranked last week and kicked over...seemed to idle okay but spewed black smoke during acceleration. It was running that way before I replaced the cap, rotor, plugs and wires. The plugs were pretty black but dry, not oily.
After I replaced everything, it ran the same way. The past couple nights I took out the A.F.M. and checked the boots (soft and crack free), cleaned the connectors with electrical contact cleaner. Did the same to the "bullet" connectors for the thermotime and water temp switches. Put it back together and it cranks but wont kick.
I am quickly feeling like I bit off more than I can chew with this project I bought and am considering giving up on her.I bought the car last Aug and got royally screwed on it (Ebay, I know). It needed cosmetic work, new paint and seats reupholstered. Was billed as a great running, rust free car.
I gutted the interior to do the POR15, Dynamat treatement, and replac the carpets. Then I found a rot hole in the floor and that it had spread to the frame rail. I ordered a rail from Bad Dog last week and have contracted a welder to weld that in place and fix the floor. I have the POR15, Dynamat, new carpet, seats refoamed and recovered. I also bought a new steering wheel, stereo, speakers, antenna, shift boot, Speedhut guage faces, etc.
I am really disgusted right now though with the process. I guess I will walk away from it for a bit :(
1977 280Z
I'm great at taking my Z apart, putting it back together has been a whole different story.

#13
DeesZ

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I am really disgusted right now though with the process. I guess I will walk away from it for a bit :(


Probably a good idea to take a breath of fresh air at this point. Don't forget about all of the progress that you have made thus far! Also, you really don't want to sell it when it's not running, so, get it back on the road at your convenience and take some time to enjoy it!
Just for kicks (and based upon an error that I made once), I must ask 'are you sure that there is enough gas in the tank?'
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1973 - HLS30-132236 - RIP - Reduced to boxes of spare parts in the garage

#14
MEZZZ

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Probably a good idea to take a breath of fresh air at this point. Don't forget about all of the progress that you have made thus far! Also, you really don't want to sell it when it's not running, so, get it back on the road at your convenience and take some time to enjoy it!
Just for kicks (and based upon an error that I made once), I must ask 'are you sure that there is enough gas in the tank?'


Thanks for the kind words...I was very frustrated yesterday to say the least. I cant sell the thing, I would lose way too much as I overpaid for it to begin with, plus shipping. I made up my mind just to suck it up and throw some good money after bad, it is a fairly straight car, I've seen much worse.
And yes, I thought about the gas too, its reading about 1/8 tank. I actually put a gallon or so in it last week after replacing the fuel filter becasue that thought entered my head and she finally kicked over. I did the same thing yesterday with no luck. I am trying to keep the fuel down just in case I have to (dreaded thought), pull the tank.
I'm off in a little bit to go buy a few diagnostic tools, fuel pressure guage, circuit tester. I will prevail eventually, or, find a mechanic to do it for me :(
1977 280Z
I'm great at taking my Z apart, putting it back together has been a whole different story.

#15
Rockr69

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Thanks fo rthe clarification Stephen. Could it be a bad water temp sensor causing a "cold condition" creating an over rich condition? Dan.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Dan

1976 280z HLS30-299271
1983 Maxima (my Hooptie)
1990 F-150 4X4
1989 Honda Accord (Wife's Car)

#16
Rockr69

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Thanks for the correction Stephen. MEZZ, I'm just stuck on the thought that if it's a later head and with all the PO misinformation about the car, does it have all the correct electrical connections and you still have not confirmed if you are using the 75-77 AFM or the later style. I'm assuming, and shame on me for that, that you are using the 75-77 AFM because you said your car was running. The reason is the fuel pump contacts are in the AFM for the 280z. The only things on these FI cars that I can think that would cause a rich condition would be low ignition voltage, incorrect or non-sufficiant data for the ECU e.g., the temp sensor. I concur with taking a breath and your time. The answers will come. They always do. Dan
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1976 280z HLS30-299271
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1990 F-150 4X4
1989 Honda Accord (Wife's Car)

#17
MEZZZ

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Thanks for the correction Stephen. MEZZ, I'm just stuck on the thought that if it's a later head and with all the PO misinformation about the car, does it have all the correct electrical connections and you still have not confirmed if you are using the 75-77 AFM or the later style. I'm assuming, and shame on me for that, that you are using the 75-77 AFM because you said your car was running. The reason is the fuel pump contacts are in the AFM for the 280z. The only things on these FI cars that I can think that would cause a rich condition would be low ignition voltage, incorrect or non-sufficiant data for the ECU e.g., the temp sensor. I concur with taking a breath and your time. The answers will come. They always do. Dan


Thanks Dan. I wnet out and looked at it, it is part #a-31-060-001 for L28, stamped on it. I did a google search with no results coming back and then I did a search on here and found an old post from Sblake01 with a drawing of the connector. Without pulling it back off, I remember that the pins were all the way across, none missing, so I am assuming it is for a 75-77.
The car was running fine when I bought it last September, I drove it home from the shipping terminal, (about 20 miles), drove it about 25 the next day back and forth from work. I noticed the next day it seemed to be running a little off, then the next day it was missing badly. I had changed the oil and filter up to that point and I also did some cleaning of the engine bay. I did pull the AFM to clean the boots (the PO had spray painted the car, right through the hood vents and there was silver paint everywhere!). Not long after that the car started running worse.
I am thinking maybe i forget a ground on it, so over the past week I removed it, cleaned the connectors and the ground wires very good. Checked the boots for cracks, put it all back together and now i cant get it to fire, it turns but thats it.
I checked this morning for spark with a test light and all 6 plugs are getting juice. That leads me to think its a fuel issue. I couldnt hear the fuel pump "click" when I turn the key but have listened before for it when the car was running and never could. The injector wires have seen better days and need replacing, probably the injectors themselves while I am there.
I am thinking of getting some starter fluid and seeing if I can get it to fire, what do you think? From there, as much as I hate to think about it, start replacing things until I get it, injector wires, injectors, fuel pump, wires for thermotime switch, pull the tank, etc :(
My knowledge is limited, but with this board and all the great people on here I am learning. Spark, fuel, air...I know that much. :)
1977 280Z
I'm great at taking my Z apart, putting it back together has been a whole different story.

#18
DeesZ

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Registering 1/8th tank of gas showing on the instrument isn't very much. I don't know beans about EFI, but before replacing anything I would first make sure that fuel is actually flowing, and at the pressure needed. If your tank has crud in it, the inlet or the filter in the inlet side of the fuel pump could be clogged... perhaps the fuel pick-up in the tank has corroded through and you are sucking air? Start at the origin of the supply and work forward would be my suggestion. The advice often offered up at this site is to start with the simple things and eliminate them first before throwing fists full of money at it. (Again, I speak from having a similar experience where I approached things from the wrong end and wasted lots of time.)
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#19
Rockr69

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Sounds like a good place to start again, but instead using staring fluid use some gas dribbled into the air filter. Starter fluid is so nasty! If she starts and runs for a few seconds you know your gettin closer. After re-reading your previous posts noting that your sure it has gas I'm starting to lean towards the dreaded gas tank gremlin. YOur car is showing the exact same symptoms as did mine, a 76, and because I'm poor I couldn't have my tank professionally refurbished, so I came up with my own method and since I've posted the procedure here before I won't bore anyone with the details, but you can p.m me and I'll fill you in. After all it seems like you've done everything else to eliminate it down to fuel supply. Hope I can help, Dan
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1976 280z HLS30-299271
1983 Maxima (my Hooptie)
1990 F-150 4X4
1989 Honda Accord (Wife's Car)

#20
MEZZZ

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Thanks John and Dan for the insight and the encouragement. I had to play "family guy" yesterday since it was Fathers Day :) so I didnt really have much time to play around with it. I will do a search Dan on your gas tank fix, I did see that POR15 has a kit out to refurbish it, so if I have to go that route and pull it, I will be going it on my own. I too dont have a lot of $jack$ laying around for this project so I have to do everything I can think I can do and only as a last resort (i.e welding) hire a pro to do it.
Maybe I'll try the little gas and see if she at least tries to catch.
1977 280Z
I'm great at taking my Z apart, putting it back together has been a whole different story.




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