Save S30-0002

[EScanlon]

Chris:

I note the "cup" around the vent, but where is the support metal that goes in front of it? If you look at the pics of 00002 you can see the metal with the embossed "x".

Enrique

[HS30-H]

....This firewall photo bothers me the most. What is the marking around the serial number?

....Looks like something was stuck over the top of the chassis number, and has left some residue behind.

I have to 'stick up' for the integrity of the marking / paint / sticker around the firewall VIN number stamping:

This is quite common in Japan, and I have seen it many times. It is merely an aid to locating the positioning of the number, and could have been carried out by a servicing garage before taking the car for a 'Shakken' test, or any number of other official and non-official agencies. I've seen them hand-drawn and I've seen them stencilled. I've seen yellow paint, orangey-yellow stencils and reflective stickers. Even 'Glow-In-The-Dark' paint and Tipp-Ex.

I don't think there's anything unusual or suspicious about the box around the number........ Lets not lose sight of the rabbit here.

In my opinion - for what it is worth - the only thing making us believe this car is 'pre-production' / extremely early production is the VIN / serial number itself. The rest of the car looks much later in date than the VIN / serial number would make us imagine it should be. The car even shows evidence of a spot of customisation ( the slat grille - which is an 'Export' market item ) which should serve to remind us that this car's life didn't begin the day we met it..............

Edit: By way of reference / comparison / light-hearted relief, I am posting the following photo. Taken from the very first Factory Workshop manual for the Japanese market cars, and published in 1969:

[26th-Z]

Craig,

We're just a bunch of car guys having a nerdy car conversation, that's all. No one is dissing anyone's small VIN. I keep flipping over to the '71 Fairlady thread and comparing pictures.

Alan, thanks for the explanation. So this is just an anomaly?

What picture are you talking about, Enrique?

[Arne]

As a Z newbie, I've been following this thread with interest, and yet some amusement as well. The interest because I enjoy learning new things about the family of cars I am getting into. The amusement because this discussion has been much like some of those I've seen (and participated in) regarding my prior restoration projects - a '67 MGB, and an '81 BMW 323i (Euro model not officially offered here in the USA).

So I have learned some things about early and late S30's from this thread.

But I have to agree with some of the sentiments expressed above. Interesting as this is to look at, it is really just an intellectual exercise. We will probably never know the whole story of this car. I do hope that it is restored, just because, but whether a particular car is really low numbered or not doesn't mean much in most cases. When I decided I wanted to restore a Z, my only hard and fast criteria was that it would have small bumpers. Series I, series II, early 260 - I really didn't care which. It just had to be suitable for restoration. Turns out the car I settled on is an early '71 series I, just by chance.

But interesting as all this is, the main point for me is for all of us to learn more about these cars, so that they can be saved for the future.

[mdbrandy]

But I have to agree with some of the sentiments expressed above. Interesting as this is to look at, it is really just an intellectual exercise. We will probably never know the whole story of this car.

And some of us enjoy the intellectual exercise. I love to drive my Z. I also enjoy studying it's history, and debating unknown things about Z cars. Who cares if we never learn the whole story of this car. If we don't ask the questions, we definately will never know! As with many things in life, if you don't ask, you don't get. Sometimes you don't get anyway, but it doesn't hurt to try.

Bottom line: there are lots of other threads to read. All our discussions are Z related. Don't complain.

[Arne]

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't complaining. I am enjoying the investigative part of the thread, and will continue to follow it as long as new data is unearthed.

[EScanlon]

Chris: The second picture on post 69, where you're showing the inside of the left rear fender, and hence the cup on the vent. That you can see the cup at all says that the support metal above the strut isn't there. SRL 00002 HAS the support metal, which makes it hard to see the vent cup.

E

[HS30-H]

Alan, thanks for the explanation. So this is just an anomaly?

At this point, your guess is as good as mine. I really don't know what we are looking at here, but I don't see anything suspicious about the actual VIN / body serial number stamping on the firewall. It doesn't look to have been altered, transferred from another vehicle ( no sign of it having been welded in in the localised area around it ) or doctored in the photo.........

Weighing up the 'evidence', I see what appears to be a car about two years younger than its VIN / body serial number. There must be a simple explanation for it, and whatever happened seems to have happened a fair few years ago. So far I'm swaying more towards it being an identity switch ( the VIN number being attached to a later car: either the firewall panel from the early car - or part of it - being attached to a later body ) and most likely for *economic* reasons some time in the past.

I still can't imagine that it was a number stamping mistake that made it outside the Factory quality control, past the dealer, and past many years of Shakken tests and regular services without being picked up on............

[HS30-H]

......SRL 00002 HAS the support metal, which makes it hard to see the vent cup.

E

Poor S30-00002. Nobody remembers his name

[Mr Camouflage]

I guess nearly being killed last weekend by a driver that ran a red light and slammed into my car has adjusted my attitude towards things a little.

So you guys can go on talking about how wrong this car is and that its should have bla bla bla, whatever, for hours and hour and hours. If that what does it for you. If you are so interested in the car fly to Japan and investigate it first hand. At least then it wouldnt just guess work based on a couple of photos

No disrespect to Kats or Alan. Or to 26th Z. Enrique, I thought you were Canadian? Maybe Kats is asking this forum because its a Global forum. Last time I checked the internet was available to the whole world. Perhaps you are the one with you head up you asre. There are members here from all over the world. For you to assume that the questios were asked here purely just to get the opinions of people residing in the USA is just stupid. The most knowlegable Z member here is from the UK.

So have fun discussing the what if's. I'm going to spend some time in the real world.

Sayonara, I'm off the garage.

[26th-Z]

Enrique,

The picture of the vent cup in my post is a shot I nabbed off eBay for my collection of sheet metal. When I stripped and dipped 26th, I became fascinated with how the chassis is assembled from sheet metal stampings. Origami comes to mind. Simple shapes take form and forms become the whole. These cars are simply "stapled" together along miles of seams. I can just see the Japanese guys welding up the shapes over wooden bucks and jigs. Then big blocks of the car assembled on a jig. I wish someone had some pictures.

Thus, I started collecting pictures of the individual metal pieces.

Pretty nerdy, huh?

[EScanlon]

Poor S30-00002. Nobody remembers his name

Et-tú Bruté?

or

Touché!

E