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Monte Carlo 240z Front Bumper


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Posted (edited)

Monte Ze.jpg

     Some of the coolest looking z's I've ever seen are the old Rally z's, and the coolest among these was the one from Monte Carlo, in my opinion. I've been looking into getting some driving lights if not now, then somewhere down the road. However, there is one big problem - fitment. I've seen two other ways of fitting driving lights: 

A.) Putting them on the hood of the car like from the Safari Rally.

Safari Ze.jpg

B.) Similar to Monte Carlo by fitting them past the radiator, except mounting them on or behind what is best described as a brush guard.

CC Z.jpg

(I've also seen a third way where the lights are fixed on the roof of the car, or else a roof rack.)

     There is a certain sacrifice that needs to be made to get proper driving lights to fit - either you add something to mount them on (like the brush guard or a roof rack), or else you slap them somewhere on the body (like the Safari Rally). Now, I do like the way these two look, however they aren't something I'd want to do to my own z because they alter the basic silhouette of the car more than I would be willing to. The Monte Carlo Rally Z seems to be a perfect medium in my mind. It has the practicality of extra driving lights without changing the basic lines of the car too much.

     How the balance was struck by the Monte Carlo Rally Z is, from my understanding, owing to the front bumper - it's basically cut lower from OEM to allow driving lights while still allowing room for the hood to be opened fully. As far as I know, this was basically a one off thing for and only for rally z's (you couldn't get it at a Datsun dealership). Now, If I only wanted extra light, I could maybe put a lightbar across the stock bumper to not effect the hood's opening, but a light bar just doesn't have the same aesthetic as circular driving lights - in fact, a light bar would just be too contrasting to the old look of a z to me. To put it plain and blunt - the Monte Carlo Z looks badass as all Hell to me.

     So, my question is how one (me) could go about finding such a bumper, and/or what else ought to be kept in mind when installing that bumper, or installing/fitting the driving lights as well. I haven't found much information online surrounding this topic besides this thread, as well as a few one offs that mention the bumper or fitment. At the end of the day, I could probably get a replica fabricated (which I'm not above), but that's no good if I don't know precisely what ought to be fabricated.

Edited by Tweeds
Forgot the last tidbit.
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2 hours ago, Tweeds said:

 How the balance was struck by the Monte Carlo Rally Z is, from my understanding, owing to the front bumper - it's basically cut lower from OEM to allow driving lights while still allowing room for the hood to be opened fully. As far as I know, this was basically a one off thing for and only for rally z's (you couldn't get it at a Datsun dealership). Now, If I only wanted extra light, I could maybe put a lightbar across the stock bumper to not effect the hood's opening, but a light bar just doesn't have the same aesthetic as circular driving lights - in fact, a light bar would just be too contrasting to the old look of a z to me. To put it plain and blunt - the Monte Carlo Z looks badass as all Hell to me.

     So, my question is how one (me) could go about finding such a bumper, and/or what else ought to be kept in mind when installing that bumper, or installing/fitting the driving lights as well. I haven't found much information online surrounding this topic besides this thread, as well as a few one offs that mention the bumper or fitment. At the end of the day, I could probably get a replica fabricated (which I'm not above), but that's no good if I don't know precisely what ought to be fabricated.

As part of the homologation process, the 'Drop Bumper' was in fact given a factory part number and made available to the general public. Part number was 62650-E8700. 

In Works rally team use there was a fairly complex arrangement of braces and supports for the lamp units themselves; the lamp mounting brackets were braced to the front valance as well as the centre part of the bumper, and the whole affair was linked to the sump guard and the sump guard mounts. Little of that would be relevant to, or necessary on, a road car but care in bracing the lamps is quite important in order to avoid 'beam shake'/flicker, as well as stress fractures. 

You'd struggle (to put it mildly) to find an original E8700 bumper in live captivity, but you could make your own version and this has been done quite successfully by others.

Photos save a thousand words:

 

E8700 Bumper-JAF-1.jpg

Drop Bumper-1.JPG

Drop Bumper-2.JPG

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@HS30-H Great info, thanks! You seem to be an expert on these bumpers. Those pictures are extremely useful - amongst all the wishy-washy things I've read or seen, your pictures are by far the most concrete. The replica car even has some of the old rally rims, too! Nice touch!

I was kinda unclear when I originally said something about 'where could I get one' because I said that meaning 'where could I get a replica' as finding an original would be, as you pointed out, very difficult (not to mention expensive if it was intact). That being said, from my understanding, to make a replica I'd be modifying a bumper more than making an entire new one from scratch, correct? Also, now that I am suspect of everything I thought I knew, it is true that the Monte Carlo bumper allows the hood to be opened regularly, right?

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45 minutes ago, Tweeds said:

I was kinda unclear when I originally said something about 'where could I get one' because I said that meaning 'where could I get a replica' as finding an original would be, as you pointed out, very difficult (not to mention expensive if it was intact). That being said, from my understanding, to make a replica I'd be modifying a bumper more than making an entire new one from scratch, correct?

Yes, the way to do it is to cut an original bumper into three pieces and 'drop' the centre section by welding on some flat stock and/or (preferably) finding some nice period over-riders from a suitable sedan and using them as the vertical elements.

 

47 minutes ago, Tweeds said:

Also, now that I am suspect of everything I thought I knew, it is true that the Monte Carlo bumper allows the hood to be opened regularly, right?

 

Yes again. The design allowed the bonnet to pivot open normally on stock hinges, with the front edge swinging over the lamp units. Again, easier to illustrate than to describe: 

 

 

 

4150-Service-Kato-1.jpg

Open-1.JPG

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6 minutes ago, HS30-H said:

Yes, the way to do it is to cut an original bumper into three pieces and 'drop' the centre section by welding on some flat stock and/or (preferably) finding some nice period over-riders from a suitable sedan and using them as the vertical elements.

 

 

Yes again. The design allowed the bonnet to pivot open normally on stock hinges, with the front edge swinging over the lamp units. Again, easier to illustrate than to describe: 

 

 

 

4150-Service-Kato-1.jpg

Open-1.JPG

Right on, thanks again! Where you get these great pictures is beyond me!

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Posted (edited)

Here's an example of the simplest - non-Works - solution, on my good friend Kevin Bristow's historic 'OMT 868K' car at the Goodwood Festival of Speed Forest Rally Stage back in 2011.

The bumper is cut into three and the centre section 'dropped' via the addition of vertical brackets. Fairly easy to do, and this style was used by privateers in period so there's an historic link which satisfies certain regulations when necessary:

 

OMT-Goodwod-2011-08.JPG

OMT-Goodwood-2011-7.jpg

OMT-Goodwood-2011-09.jpg

Edited by HS30-H
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@Patcon They might have kissed the corner just before the picture was taken since - would be some real tight driving if so. Could also be some dips in the road we can't see. Even so, it would take some power to keep those wheels off the ground for long. 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/12/2021 at 2:38 AM, Tweeds said:

Monte Ze.jpg

     Some of the coolest looking z's I've ever seen are the old Rally z's, and the coolest among these was the one from Monte Carlo, in my opinion. I've been looking into getting some driving lights if not now, then somewhere down the road. However, there is one big problem - fitment. I've seen two other ways of fitting driving lights: 

A.) Putting them on the hood of the car like from the Safari Rally.

Safari Ze.jpg

B.) Similar to Monte Carlo by fitting them past the radiator, except mounting them on or behind what is best described as a brush guard.

CC Z.jpg

(I've also seen a third way where the lights are fixed on the roof of the car, or else a roof rack.)

     There is a certain sacrifice that needs to be made to get proper driving lights to fit - either you add something to mount them on (like the brush guard or a roof rack), or else you slap them somewhere on the body (like the Safari Rally). Now, I do like the way these two look, however they aren't something I'd want to do to my own z because they alter the basic silhouette of the car more than I would be willing to. The Monte Carlo Rally Z seems to be a perfect medium in my mind. It has the practicality of extra driving lights without changing the basic lines of the car too much.

     How the balance was struck by the Monte Carlo Rally Z is, from my understanding, owing to the front bumper - it's basically cut lower from OEM to allow driving lights while still allowing room for the hood to be opened fully. As far as I know, this was basically a one off thing for and only for rally z's (you couldn't get it at a Datsun dealership). Now, If I only wanted extra light, I could maybe put a lightbar across the stock bumper to not effect the hood's opening, but a light bar just doesn't have the same aesthetic as circular driving lights - in fact, a light bar would just be too contrasting to the old look of a z to me. To put it plain and blunt - the Monte Carlo Z looks badass as all Hell to me.

     So, my question is how one (me) could go about finding such a bumper, and/or what else ought to be kept in mind when installing that bumper, or installing/fitting the driving lights as well. I haven't found much information online surrounding this topic besides this thread, as well as a few one offs that mention the bumper or fitment. At the end of the day, I could probably get a replica fabricated (which I'm not above), but that's no good if I don't know precisely what ought to be fabricated.

Great topic.

I am doing this as well on my 73 restoration, and didnt realize until now that there was a name for this. I have been looking at my bumper for months and have decided I will mount the bumper, then measure and cut and weld the uprights while mounted on the car. I plan to use some hefty flat bars for the verticals and when its all together have it all chromed. 

I have some vintage NOS Hella clear lamps and two vintage amber lamps to to have 4 lamps across the front. I also plan on using the stock over rider as well.

Ever since seeing the rally cars from back in the day, I thought those bumpers were the coolest thing. The low profile of the hood and bumper arrangement lend nicely to tuck the lamps in there for a daily driver.

Edited by DC871F
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Posted (edited)

@DC871F I agree - the Monte Carlo bumper lends such a nice look to the Z. Shoot me a PM - I'd love to come help you put it all together, and it'd be a good way to prepare myself for making my own. Plus, I'd finally get to meet another Z enthusiast in person! I live about an hour out of Jacksonville. 

Edited by Tweeds
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Posted (edited)

I really like the look of those bumpers!

http://bumperautomobile.com/datsun-bumpers.html

Maybe the new bumpers from these guys with their new rubber-less. over riders would make the perfect starting point. Hate to chop up an original if you don‘t have to.

 

364595F1-C88E-4B4A-8B47-5BABF3BFBC92.png

Edited by zKars
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25 minutes ago, zKars said:

I really like the look of those bumpers!

http://bumperautomobile.com/datsun-bumpers.html

Maybe the new bumpers from these guys with their new rubber-less. over riders would make the perfect starting point. Hate to chop up an original if you don‘t have to.

They do look like some quality reproductions. However, the company is based in Vietnam and they don't have their prices listed on the website. I'm not sure then if it would be cheaper in the end to buy an OEM bumper or one from this company after shipping costs and all that. It'd be nice to hear from someone who's bought from the company before. My plan was to keep and eye out for a bumper at a reasonable price on something like Ebay or Craigslist so I can keep my original intact.

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36 minutes ago, Yarb said:

I purchased from bumper automobile. Good quality, Reputable folks

How much was it after shipping, if you don't mind my asking?

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I purchased from bumper automobile. Good quality, Reputable folks

Right around $710 including shipping. Amy should be the person that responds to your email. Very fast by the way. Mention the club and ask about pricing. Chrome over Stainless steel construction 

I ordered the 240z bumpers. You can order them with or without the license plate bracket up front. Same for the rubber. If you choose not to have the holes in the bumper they still include the rubber in case you change your mind later.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/12/2021 at 5:59 AM, HS30-H said:

As part of the homologation process, the 'Drop Bumper' was in fact given a factory part number and made available to the general public. Part number was 62650-E8700. 

In Works rally team use there was a fairly complex arrangement of braces and supports for the lamp units themselves; the lamp mounting brackets were braced to the front valance as well as the centre part of the bumper, and the whole affair was linked to the sump guard and the sump guard mounts. Little of that would be relevant to, or necessary on, a road car but care in bracing the lamps is quite important in order to avoid 'beam shake'/flicker, as well as stress fractures. 

You'd struggle (to put it mildly) to find an original E8700 bumper in live captivity, but you could make your own version and this has been done quite successfully by others.

Photos save a thousand words:

 

E8700 Bumper-JAF-1.jpg

Drop Bumper-1.JPG

Drop Bumper-2.JPG

I didnt think about extending the mount outside the bumper to steady the lights, makes sense. More holes......

Edited by DC871F
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18 hours ago, Tweeds said:

@DC871F I agree - the Monte Carlo bumper lends such a nice look to the Z. Shoot me a PM - I'd love to come help you put it all together, and it'd be a good way to prepare myself for making my own. Plus, I'd finally get to meet another Z enthusiast in person! I live about an hour out of Jacksonville. 

I'm still a little ways off on the bumper, car still on rotisserie with metal work. I started a build thread for it, but I'm not that diligent on keeping up with pics. I find myself working on it then realize I didnt take any pictures. I still welcome the visit, at least for moral support. I'll send a PM.

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On 8/12/2021 at 6:05 AM, HS30-H said:

Here's an example of a self-built replica 'Drop Bumper' and lights, on one of the VZ Program cars which went to Japan. I've seen the car in person and it is very well done:

 

VZ car Japan-1.jpg

That is a beautiful car.

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