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240ZBUILTBYME 1971 240z HS-001063 Project Sheena


240ZBUILTBYME

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36 minutes ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

Wow That is way too cool Mr X!

You can call me Racer.

 

36 minutes ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

 

no wonder you’re smarter than the average bear 🐻...

Aw, shucks, yer makin' me blush.

36 minutes ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

that’s crazy the variation in length considering the tolerance of the build, is that due to differences in temperatures, metal expanding etc I would think the hangar where you build would be temperature controlled to mitigate that? 

 

The variance comes from production tolerances, or the difference in size from one part to the next, for each of the thousands of parts that make the whole airplane. Production is carried out inside of buildings sheltered from weather. Although not all buildings are insulated with climate control, the heat generated from the manufacturing activities keeps them at a reasonably consistent temperature day by day. Also, some manufacturing environments are carried out in smaller, insulated and climate controlled buildings to prevent expansion or contraction of parts, such as wing spars, which are over 100 feet long, and could change in length a great deal even under only a small change in temperature.

So a 747-800 (the current model) is about 250 feet long. The fuselage is assembled from a few dozen exterior panel assemblies each made from a few hundred components (skin panels, frames, stringers), hundreds of floor beams and longitudinal beams, the longest being around 25 feet long. Also. when the bolts and rivets are installed, the metal around the holes is displaced, causing some deformation, and elongation, of the parts (this is accounted for in the engineering design). Although the size of the holes are always the same, there are still tolerances, and no two holes are exactly the same size. Additionally, the fasteners vary a bit in size. And when a rivet is driven, or a bolt tightened, again, no two are exactly the same.

So add up a few thousandths of an inch over 250 feet and all the many parts, and 18" isn't much.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By the way, if you ever find yourself riding in a 747, go to the very last seat at the back, on an aisle. While the plane is taxiing, lean out and look towards the front of it. And during takeoff and flight, do it again.

Observe the floor.

It will twist, ripple, undulate, and curve up and down, so much so one might wonder how it can move this much and not break.

A similar thing can be observed while sitting at a window near the main wings, watching the tips rise and fall, and if one looks closely enough they can be seen to flutter or twist.

Relax, they are suppose to be flexible.

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  • 3 weeks later...

After completing the chassis jig I decided to hold off on rust repairs until the car is blasted. The next step is to build my rotisserie. 

What I thought would be a relatively simple task turned out to be a nightmare. And upon trying to build the bumper mounts I realized my front end is a dog’s breakfast...

Now I knew the car had been in a front end collision but I didn’t realize it was this bad until I really started studying it. 

A0258AE2-7898-4CE9-A63E-A98C91A9338D.thumb.jpeg.83fa02c9d14cefd4fbdeed738b4a0730.jpeg

Notice the vertical panel kinks outward at the bottom where the front bumper mounts are, it should be straight up vertically, and flat. The radius of the bend should be round (roughly between 55mm radius rear bumper hole 40mm front hole). Mine is almost a 90 degree angle. 

so my dilemma was how to mount the rotisserie if my bumper mounts were more crooked than a politician. 

I used heat and a shrinking hammer to try and shrink the metal in the curved area and bring the radius back to pull the bumper mounts back into line. It worked reasonably well, to repair the area properly I will need to remove the bumper mount reinforcement panel where the jam nuts are. This is the after photo.

 DF603EE9-9D40-4FC6-ACBF-A2D056224BD1.thumb.jpeg.781b61670dfec663d16a8bbe1568dcfa.jpeg

better but a long way to go to get to what it should look like... untainted photo below.

DBCB3CAF-3F25-4936-B264-4A99B5C36C7C.thumb.jpeg.ceba29a039122c1959912ea82d4e05bb.jpeg

The same was done on the other side though the LHS is much worse. 

I wire wheeled the area to get a better look at the real damage, found some damage under some filler. 

247189A3-C38C-44E2-BA1F-DDE606047FD6.thumb.jpeg.1669acabe942565e7e05c6849f73bb08.jpeg34876F46-8DEB-4FA7-A618-7B6EC0975DCD.thumb.jpeg.0b7f926cc0490c63ffcc02544c2fd2bd.jpeg

when it had its collision the impact has sheared the areaaround the edge of the bumper mount reinforcement. 

1FD4A681-C0A6-41E4-8ABE-84842D3832E6.thumb.jpeg.51663eb2a856138c5b07256d573cf32c.jpeg

LHS front of wheel arch is severely deformed. Air Ducting channel is crushed and misshapen. 

9F1A3AA7-08BC-4CD1-8486-F9843ADE56F5.thumb.jpeg.54d39d47ae2c93d696a7fcda9653bb12.jpeg

Area between wheel arch and radiator support has been pushed together, should be a much bigger gap. Rippling in sheet metal.

8D931329-541D-43F0-8C5C-FE3E357FFB50.thumb.jpeg.b8ed22ec3bae81cc0b3d873cff10a81e.jpeg

The more you look at it the worse it gets...

11595147-A639-45A0-B6D6-20FB22B988EE.thumb.jpeg.82627596810e4fbd287714854574abdc.jpeg379389E7-0CCA-4294-A667-9DCCABE1C1F1.thumb.jpeg.491b576aedd90e120ae8f61ec29a5e0a.jpeg

I am now contemplating transplanting the front nose of a untainted car onto mine due to the amount of damage that has been sustained. Anybody have any thoughts on this? As opposed to trying to pull everything out and repair it? 

Despite the significant blow to my morale I carried on and ended up starting the front mounts for the rotisserie.

26D4E603-CC7E-424A-A42B-7EFB834A9D85.thumb.jpeg.92c3c0eb4cfc510cba9d310d0651dae0.jpeg9D60A00B-E230-457C-8DA0-62E42619FAE1.thumb.jpeg.738354af3f5280129a9dd903e0dfd3be.jpeg

I stuffed up and made the horizontal pieces too short.... they don’t clear the nose. What a fool. I had changed my design halfway through and did not account for the larger tube slipping over the vertical length.

001D9466-0B7E-46A9-A081-48D40580E287.thumb.jpeg.ede288eb6698399be0426b6ec2243a84.jpeg

I can make it work, but not ideal....

still so much to learn....

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My car has similar damage. I had it checked for being square and level on a frame rack. I dollied some of the wrinkled metal but its impossible to fix it all without removing the radiator support. In the end I dont care that much. I won't be able to see it from the drivers seat and it wont affect anything else

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5 hours ago, Patcon said:

I had it checked for being square and level on a frame rack

According to my rudimentary measurements my car is square, I have it on the leveled chassis jig and it is quite level.  Front radiator support is not level, I assume due to the damage, the strut towers are level though, which is the main thing. 

5 hours ago, Patcon said:

I won't be able to see it from the drivers seat and it wont affect anything else

I know you won’t see the damage but I feel like I feel like I’m going to go through so much to get the rest of the car right it would be a shame to not do the best repair possible.

I can either transplant the front section from a cleaner car, roughly from the front quarter of the wheel arch forward. Or I can repair the damage. Either way I’m removing the radiator support In my mind doing the transplant seems cleaner and simpler...

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7 hours ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

After completing the chassis jig I decided to hold off on rust repairs until the car is blasted. The next step is to build my rotisserie. 

What I thought would be a relatively simple task turned out to be a nightmare. And upon trying to build the bumper mounts I realized my front end is a dog’s breakfast...

Now I knew the car had been in a front end collision but I didn’t realize it was this bad until I really started studying it. 

A0258AE2-7898-4CE9-A63E-A98C91A9338D.thumb.jpeg.83fa02c9d14cefd4fbdeed738b4a0730.jpeg

Notice the vertical panel kinks outward at the bottom where the front bumper mounts are, it should be straight up vertically, and flat. The radius of the bend should be round (roughly between 55mm radius rear bumper hole 40mm front hole). Mine is almost a 90 degree angle. 

so my dilemma was how to mount the rotisserie if my bumper mounts were more crooked than a politician. 

I used heat and a shrinking hammer to try and shrink the metal in the curved area and bring the radius back to pull the bumper mounts back into line. It worked reasonably well, to repair the area properly I will need to remove the bumper mount reinforcement panel where the jam nuts are. This is the after photo.

 DF603EE9-9D40-4FC6-ACBF-A2D056224BD1.thumb.jpeg.781b61670dfec663d16a8bbe1568dcfa.jpeg

better but a long way to go to get to what it should look like... untainted photo below.

DBCB3CAF-3F25-4936-B264-4A99B5C36C7C.thumb.jpeg.ceba29a039122c1959912ea82d4e05bb.jpeg

The same was done on the other side though the LHS is much worse. 

I wire wheeled the area to get a better look at the real damage, found some damage under some filler. 

247189A3-C38C-44E2-BA1F-DDE606047FD6.thumb.jpeg.1669acabe942565e7e05c6849f73bb08.jpeg34876F46-8DEB-4FA7-A618-7B6EC0975DCD.thumb.jpeg.0b7f926cc0490c63ffcc02544c2fd2bd.jpeg

when it had its collision the impact has sheared the areaaround the edge of the bumper mount reinforcement. 

1FD4A681-C0A6-41E4-8ABE-84842D3832E6.thumb.jpeg.51663eb2a856138c5b07256d573cf32c.jpeg

LHS front of wheel arch is severely deformed. Air Ducting channel is crushed and misshapen. 

9F1A3AA7-08BC-4CD1-8486-F9843ADE56F5.thumb.jpeg.54d39d47ae2c93d696a7fcda9653bb12.jpeg

Area between wheel arch and radiator support has been pushed together, should be a much bigger gap. Rippling in sheet metal.

8D931329-541D-43F0-8C5C-FE3E357FFB50.thumb.jpeg.b8ed22ec3bae81cc0b3d873cff10a81e.jpeg

The more you look at it the worse it gets...

11595147-A639-45A0-B6D6-20FB22B988EE.thumb.jpeg.82627596810e4fbd287714854574abdc.jpeg379389E7-0CCA-4294-A667-9DCCABE1C1F1.thumb.jpeg.491b576aedd90e120ae8f61ec29a5e0a.jpeg

I am now contemplating transplanting the front nose of a untainted car onto mine due to the amount of damage that has been sustained. Anybody have any thoughts on this? As opposed to trying to pull everything out and repair it? 

Despite the significant blow to my morale I carried on and ended up starting the front mounts for the rotisserie.

26D4E603-CC7E-424A-A42B-7EFB834A9D85.thumb.jpeg.92c3c0eb4cfc510cba9d310d0651dae0.jpeg9D60A00B-E230-457C-8DA0-62E42619FAE1.thumb.jpeg.738354af3f5280129a9dd903e0dfd3be.jpeg

I stuffed up and made the horizontal pieces too short.... they don’t clear the nose. What a fool. I had changed my design halfway through and did not account for the larger tube slipping over the vertical length.

001D9466-0B7E-46A9-A081-48D40580E287.thumb.jpeg.ede288eb6698399be0426b6ec2243a84.jpeg

I can make it work, but not ideal....

still so much to learn....

Some nice pictures Ryan, looks like you're moving forward.

Small trouble at this end though.

I selected the dark theme for the forum that Mike made available recently. The text in your post is the came color as the background, so I can't read it. All other posts in this thread are OK, the text a contrasting color to the background.

Did you choose a font color for this post? Or copy the text from a text editor?

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

By the way, if you have access to a donor car with a good front section, it might be a good idea to replace the structure from the firewall forward. You're replacing the frame rails anyway, right?

Separate the structure where it is spot welded at the firewall, and save trouble splicing midway.

Also, check that the firewall wasn't deformed when the other damage occurred.

 

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3 hours ago, ConVerTT said:

Been there Ryan...

My thoughts - cut it out and replace it while you are still on the jig.  Check out my old thread - start from the bottom of page 5...

Look at the bright side...your metal fab skills are about to go through the roof 😉

https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/61483-240z-fabbing-new-front-rails/?&page=5#comments

 

Kent I could read your thread 1000 times and still be amazed!

Yes I think I need to do something similar, but instead of being really talented and making everything I’ll cheat and get donor panels.

you said your old thread, do you have a new one? I’ve been wondering what stage your car is at.

ryan 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Patcon said:

One of my thoughts is good donors in Aussie might be hard to come by.

They're hard to come by where I'm at much less there...

Yes they are non existent anymore, however I am in luck. My Z specialist has a wrecked car with near a perfect front nose on it. The photo I used above to show what the stock area should look like is the same car I got my cleanish roof skin off. Here’s more photos 

Problem is the radiator support is butchered and the bottom of the wheel arch panel has been removed. But very useable for the repairs I need to do.

EBFA14F4-284B-432E-98BD-ACCE8E24CBCB.jpeg

8768709D-8B7C-4455-9D6A-474B3388466F.jpeg

6501C46D-032B-4FD1-A544-3D4588C2274D.jpeg

8D5246EF-F2B1-4269-8A5A-53A230A78D8C.jpeg

Edited by 240ZBUILTBYME
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3 hours ago, Racer X said:

Did you choose a font color for this post? Or copy the text from a text editor?

That’s a negative racer I didn’t touch anything as far as I’m aware... I did copy the text from my page on the Aussie forum.... could that be why? 

3 hours ago, Racer X said:

By the way, if you have access to a donor car with a good front section, it might be a good idea to replace the structure from the firewall forward. You're replacing the frame rails anyway, right?

the thought of doing that scares the bejeezus out of me racer! I’d be much more comfortable leaving the main structure intact and patching what needs replacing. I will check the firewall but nothing that I’ve seen so far. I am indeed replacing the frame rails. 

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7 hours ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

That’s a negative racer I didn’t touch anything as far as I’m aware... I did copy the text from my page on the Aussie forum.... could that be why? 
 

That would likely be it.

7 hours ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

the thought of doing that scares the bejeezus out of me racer! I’d be much more comfortable leaving the main structure intact and patching what needs replacing. I will check the firewall but nothing that I’ve seen so far. I am indeed replacing the frame rails. 

You mentioned the front of your car is higher on one side. How much?

If you keep the original structure, you will need to determine how much out of position it is, and then figure out how to pull it back where it belongs. A frame machine is how body shops do it, anchoring the chassis down and forcing everything back where it should be.

The engine bay is a large box. After sustaining a hit that deformed that box it is no longer square. Getting it back into shape is crucial for getting the bodywork to fit well again.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/20/2021 at 5:30 PM, Racer X said:

You mentioned the front of your car is higher on one side. How much?

Racer I ended up buying a self leveling laser level, have checked most structural points on the body and found the car is level. I was using a bubble level and it’s difficult to get an accurate reading. The photos of my laser leveling are in this thread:

 

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I decided to plough on with the rotisserie build as I won’t be attempting repair on my front end until I have the car blasted and up to replacing frame rails/removing radiator support. 

 Progress is coming along nicely.

I realized that if I flipped my mounts and drilled new holes I wouldn’t have to cut and reweld. So now the mounts clear the nose. I love humanities proneness to be lazy.

6C3CF7C1-B76D-4818-90CC-51DC02563DD5.jpeg

notched pipe and mocked up horizontal joiner piece. 
E237AB3F-35B2-41EE-BD08-EE12DE2364BE.jpeg

welded up brackets and jam nuts. My welding is slowly getting better, soon I’ll be able boast about stacking dimes 😂

EEEF06F8-D289-4920-800A-9911D501525C.jpeg

mocked up front base, notched upright for the pipe to fit into snuggly.

34E9EBB3-F04B-487C-A0DA-1D84C16FC6A1.jpeg

Next on the list:

- tack everything together and add extra supports to the base

-install castors

- do a mock install from jig to rotisserie, My goal is to be able to transfer the shell between jig and rotisserie with minimal fuss and effort 

-all going well, weld up front frame and base and move onto  the rear.

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It's just as well your front supports extend upward. The balance point for the car is on that side of the bolt holes if I remember correctly

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1 hour ago, Patcon said:

It's just as well your front supports extend upward. The balance point for the car is on that side of the bolt holes if I remember correctly

I’m basing my design loosely off Kent’s @ConVerTT and trying to go on what he said in his thread which is front mount is 3 inches below the axis of rotation and rear is 5 inches below. 

though not exactly sure where he took that measurement from 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Nearly knocked off the front section of the rotisserie this week, so close! 

I keep stressing that my progress is too slow. But I try to remind my self it’s one tiny task at a time, every little job complete is one little job less on the list. The old how do you eat an elephant thing....

Base and pivot point welded up and complete, castors installed. 

A70604F4-287F-4924-9E83-8DBF457C46F4.jpegFFBDBE4D-A269-4EF3-970F-9F4456253ABC.jpegCB9040DF-53C2-4389-9D32-5345F44622B5.jpeg752F8F3F-3C6B-467B-BC09-82F417818283.jpeg

Next on the list:

-weld in supports on the base and pivot 

- due to the damage to the bumper mount section on my car I have decided to add additional tie in points, I will be using the front tow points, however the bolts had snapped on all the points so I will need to tackle that before hand

- move onto the rear of the rotisserie 

ryan

 

 

Edited by 240ZBUILTBYME
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8 hours ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

The old how do you eat an elephant thing....

Haha.. I guess bit by bit is the answer? i never heard of that expression!

Ryan, could you do a experiment with the bumpers..?  As they are stainless i expect then to go a bit dull after some time.. so as they are not going anywhere, you could do a test.. wrap them up again in the paper and put them in plastic so it's airtight. And leave one part, the rear mid part out..  wash it with ordinary auto wash and dry it and leave it at the air. Then we can see after a year the difference in shiny-ness, i for one would be very curious what the difference will be!  (store the set in one and the same room offcourse)

I think that there will be quite a difference..  Would be a nice test!

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On 5/18/2021 at 5:51 PM, dutchzcarguy said:

Haha.. I guess bit by bit is the answer? i never heard of that expression!

Ryan, could you do a experiment with the bumpers..?  As they are stainless i expect then to go a bit dull after some time.. so as they are not going anywhere, you could do a test.. wrap them up again in the paper and put them in plastic so it's airtight. And leave one part, the rear mid part out..  wash it with ordinary auto wash and dry it and leave it at the air. Then we can see after a year the difference in shiny-ness, i for one would be very curious what the difference will be!  (store the set in one and the same room offcourse)

I think that there will be quite a difference..  Would be a nice test!

Haha 😂 nah mate these will stay shiny till they go on the car! 

im sure one of the guys who have had these Bumpers on their cars for a while can comment on longevity of the shine

nothing lasts forever, I anticipate these will need to get buffed to restore the shine but better that than the the fortune it costs to rechrome. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I only got in a half days work on my last RnR, but managed to get some important work done. if you have been following along my front nose was damaged in a past accident and has been some what weakened compared to a stock one. I decided to add an extra bolt in point on my rotisserie mounts to add some strength as I did not trust just bolting to the bumper mounts. This is what I came up with....

89AF0A05-DA30-48C9-86D5-EA7B86A7ED91.jpeg99E252F4-AAE9-4D4B-AE18-82A3AE8E5215.jpeg

first I had to remove the snapped/rusted out bolts from the tow points. This proved difficult, used heat and penetrant along with easy out bits, but to no avail on the LHS, I snapped two easy out bits trying. I ended up just drilling a 10mm hole straight through and will use a M10 nut and bolt, (I’m replacing chassis rails anyway) and I have a conveniently placed rust hole which allows me access to place/tighten the nut.

 I managed to remove the rusted RHS tow point bolt with the easy outs! What a feeling of triumph! 

this additional mount point added a heap of strength to the mounts, vertically and laterally. And it was only tacked together. Once fully welded they will be plenty strong enough to support the car. 

Why did I make it adjustable and not just weld the front mount all together? Good question. I made it adjustable because after I carry out repairs on the front nose the bumper bolt hole locations may alter slightly meaning the rotisserie mounts won’t fit for the underbelly painting. Now they are adjustable, they will fit.

Next up I hope to:

- finish the front mounts

- add supports where needed 

- start on the rear rotisserie mounts

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16 minutes ago, 240ZBUILTBYME said:

first I had to remove the snapped/rusted out bolts from the tow points. This proved difficult, used heat and penetrant along with easy out bits, but to no avail on the LHS, I snapped two easy out bits trying.

Been there, done that -- LHS tow point on one car, RHS on another.  Needs an oxyacetylene torch.  The flame temperature from a  propane torch isn't high enough and the flame tip is too diffused.   EZ-outs are the devil's tool (the cheap ones, anyway).  Snap one off inside the stud and the degree-of-difficulty for the job instantly increases by a factor of 10. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Namerow said:

 Snap one off inside the stud and the degree-of-difficulty for the job instantly increases by a factor of 10. 

When that happens I use a hammer and a pin punch to shatter the broken tool, and a dental pick to remove the broken bits.

Fiddly, but effective. 

 

Edited by Racer X
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  • 4 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

I’ve been a bit slack with updates of late, more because it is demoralizing how slow progress is lol 

front section of the rotisserie finally complete and I can move onto the rear of the car, mounts should be much quicker to make on the rear

new mount design all welded up, added further support to the main L shaped section which will be taking the weight. 

45B1E3A5-B621-4F7B-8FD3-0FB744280DEE.jpegBD4A7262-3DA3-415C-B7F6-D7725651C0E7.jpeg
 

added supports to uprights

EBF16CEC-0E80-42EF-AD3C-672B46DD702F.jpeg5823CFD7-ACEA-46D4-BF72-115C0DA967FB.jpeg

should be well and truly strong enough 

and here is part 1 of the rotisserie build in video, measurements of all sections laid out in the video. 

Ryan

 

Edited by 240ZBUILTBYME
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Ordered a set of extractors from Les Collins racing here in oz. apparently these work with Weber’s and Hitachi SUs. Stock heatshield and SU return springs requires  modifications. Lovely craftsmanship however was let down by some surface imperfections during ceramic coating and a few dents in the secondaries, he is sending me a new set of secondaries.


27C53C07-4D60-4EA3-AF80-11D7061CD0BF.jpeg39F7FF40-30F2-4793-A9A1-AD69DC14AE62.jpegA6406304-08D3-41D0-AEB2-35B39BB13F4D.jpegB8AE2DF3-63F6-4C8F-AC8E-B9817274E928.jpeg6851FE85-720F-464B-B997-4F9B6D774868.jpeg3BB62C06-69AD-4F84-9A34-0110BC968DB6.jpeg

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Posted (edited)

After completing the front section I moved straight on building the rear mounts. As I was working out what sized tubing to use for the direct mount, I noticed the rear bumper mounts were not flat. There was a few small rust bubbles around the mounts and along the rear valance. So I though I would begin a investigatory expedition into their origin. 

UH OH😬

well it didn’t come out as polite as that... my exclamation rhymed with DUCK, except with PH on the front.... the bog (you call it filler) monster had reared its ugly head...

B8B44A86-5C04-4953-896C-9674FD1E2F15.jpeg
275F5605-61EE-4069-AC83-838C4FA7595E.jpeg

not knowing if this was from accident damage, which I didn’t think it was, as behind the valance looked undamaged. Or if it was bad rust repairs I decided to press on with my expedition 

BIG UH OH! Again not the phrase I used...

9BD96F90-E32E-4B01-AD80-4EC5E9360448.jpegF2E8A035-C7D9-4B2D-AECB-84E8882F893C.jpeg

At this point, the suspense to find out just how PH$#*€D my rear valance is was killing me. So I kept going....

CCEFB949-00D9-48B5-B128-2A0D89432151.jpeg01ADAD51-1B9A-4704-BA0A-D39D72D7DC37.jpeg
71873734-E3D9-4E7C-99C3-CAB7B3EBFD2B.jpeg39A14F23-0D42-4BF3-B436-B6C25F07F3BC.jpeg
At this point I felt I could not continue with the rotisserie build until this was repaired. The massive holes I feel would affect the structural integrity of the rear end. Plus I’ve kind of been dying to sink my teeth into some rust repairs. 

Ryan 

 

Edited by 240ZBUILTBYME
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