Can't get in gears!

[Guycali]

Hi all,

Hope you can give me some insights. I've just replaced the clutch and bled the system, drained and refilled the tranny oil, and bled the brake system. I can move the shifter in all gears okay with engine off. However, when the engine is running, I can't shift into any gears, no matter how hard I tried. I have attempted to decrease the clutch/shift fork gap but all that does is firm up the pedal travel and the problem remains. With the engine off, I can shift into 1st gear, start the engine, slowly release the clutch pedal and the car will move forward. However, I just can't shift to any other gears while the engine is turning. I do hope the problem is not the synchros but simple clutch adjustment.

I'd be most grateful if anyone close to me can help me get this puppy on the road!

Regards,

-Wilbur

[Bambikiller240]

Did you replace anything besides the clutch disc, pressure plate & Throw-out (release) bearing? What year car? original transmission?, changed to 5 speed?

Please provide us with specific information on what you have, and what you did. It can all make a difference.

[Guycali]

Thanks BK240. I have a '72 4spd and it's all stock. I've replaced the clutch disc, pressure plate, and throwout bearing. I have temporarily fixed it by disconnecting the return spring on the slave cylinder. It appears that with the return spring connected, the pushrod of the slave cylinder doesn't have enough force to overcome the tension in the spring to deliver proper disengagement distance to the clutch. The car shifts pretty well in all gears with the return spring removed. Good to know it's not the synchros. *whew*

Of course, this isn't a long term solution. Either the slave or master cylinder isn't working properly because I've bled the clutch over and over again. Or it could be both cylinders. I guess my solution is to replace the slave cylinder then the master to really fix the problem. The return spring is there for a reason. Having it disconnected doesn't sit well with me.

-Wilbur

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by Guycali

The return spring is there for a reason. Having it disconnected doesn't sit well with me.

-Wilbur

Wilbur: You are correct, that spring ensures positive release so that the T.O. bearing doesn't rest against the fingers of the pressure plate.

One other thing to check, and it is easy to do; is to look under the dash at the clutch pedal, where the arm from the master cylinder connects to it. There is a hole in the pedal arm where the master cylinder connects via a clevis pin. Over time that hole in the pedal arm can get deformed (i.e. elongated, so it is no longer round, but is oval). When this happens, a great amount of pedal movement is used to take up the slack (caused by the ovalled hole) before the pedal movement is translated into movement of the clutch master cylinder to move fluid in the system. Operate the pedal by hand while observing the amount of pedal movement before the master cylinder begins to be operated. If the hole is ovalled, you can either find a better one at a junk yard or have a bushing with an 8mm hole welded into your pedal to restore it to proper dimensions.

If that is needed, and you can't find someone to fix your pedal; I can direct you to the place that I sent my pedal for refurbishment.

[tanny]

Just yesterday I had a simmilar situation suddenly develop when I was 50 miles from home. Quickly became worse until I couldn't shift. I had to adjust(made stroke longer and/or deeper. No nasty comments.) the threaded rod from the clutch pedal to master cylinder. The locknut had come loose and the rod shortened its stroke, so the clutch wasn't completely disengaging. You've probably already checked this. Good luck.

[Guycali]

Carl,

Thanks for the heads up. Sure enough, my clutch pedal had oval'ed to have about 3-4mm free play. I can weld in the bushing myself but not sure where to find 8mm bushings. What kind of material should the bushing be made of: bronze, copper, steel? Thanks.

-Wilbur

[Bambikiller240]

Hi Wilbur:

When my clutch was replaced (two years ago), this problem became apparent, so Kim Blough of Idaho Z Cars installed an steel bushing (he said he "bronze welded" it) in my pedal arm. I'm not sure where one would find that, but hopefully it won't be too difficult. The hole should be 8mm dia. maybe McMaster-Carr http://www.mcmaster.com/ or call Kim Blough in Idaho at 208-890-6454 Cell #

On my car the clevis pin was also deformed from usage, so I replaced it with a new one and everything has been fine since then.

[SER240Z]

Sorry I'm bringing up an old post, but I have this problem right now. No pressure with the return spring on and clutch won't disengage, but works OK with the spring off, just a little mushy. I just changed the master, and everything worked fine before the master went out. Checked the pedal, there is no play from the oblonged/oval shaped hole.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

Scott

[Guycali]

Scott,

When you said "oblonged/ovaled" hole, did you really mean the hole is NOT round? The hole should be round so theres no free play when stepping on the pedal, which relates to point it acutally applies pressure to clutch cylinder.

If you have a perfect round hole, then my guess is you probably have air in the lines. Try to bleed again. Do you have a good working slave cylinder? Did you set the correct engagement gap on the slave cylinder? I don't have my manual handy but I recall it was something like 2-3 full turns back out from point of engagement.

HTH,

-Wilbur

[SER240Z]

Sorry, I was refering to the problem of the oblong/oval hole. The hole in my pedal is fine. I have no play at all where the master meets the pedal.

I think I'll try and gravity bleed the system tonight to see if it helps.

Thanks

Scott