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spoofan

'73 white european lady

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So I finally managed to find a 240z which I always desired. It will take a lot of time to make her beautiful again but I am sure the time spent on restoration will be definitely worth it.

Not my first car which will be rebuilt (already completed Miata NA version) so I kind of know what amount of work to expect but I am really afraid of rust. 

 

There are a lot of non genuine parts on the car so I plan to get her to stock look as much as possible. First I need to start the car after 12y sitting in a barn. I just can't wait to hear the engine.

So if anyone here is selling the parts, PM me :) I am definitely looking for inspection light, mirrors, seats, front bumper, wheels...

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Nice car. Zcardepot on ebay can help you out with a lot of the small stuff like mirrors and the engine bay light. futofab.com has new chrome bumpers. Wheels are plentiful over here but the shipping would be expensive. Check our classifieds. You might find some things closer to you.

Enjoy the Z!

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Thanks a lot. Shipping from US is no problem, so if any of you guys have something nice to sell (and are willing to ship inside US) I am willing to buy :)

Edited by spoofan

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nice find - there's a good thread here about "awakening the beast" with a lot of great tips on starting a motor that has sat for years. important to do it carefully or you can ruin a cam.

keep us posted with restoration pics!

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So I finally had some time to work on the Z. I drained the fuel tank and took of valve cover and this is what I have found.

Any ideas what went wrong? Is it even repairable? I did not start the engine, it wasn't running last 12 years.

 

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Edited by spoofan

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Happen to mine after a rebuild. Lash pad or rocker arm guide, I've heard them called both, came off the vale spring retainer then the rocker arm slid off the side. Shouldn't be a problem.

Find the lash pad. Pry the valve spring down with a long screwdriver using the cam as a pry point, in between the slick lobes, the rough part of the cam. When the springs are compressed you can slide the rocker back on. Do a valve height adjustment and it should be fine. Most likely feel off because the valve was too loose.

I flipped out when it happened to me but after hearing from the members here on how to fix the problem it was really easy. Never happened again either.

12 years sitting you'll need some other preventive work before cranking your car.

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From your pics it looks like a big chunk is missing from the cam lobe, I hope I'm just seeing things.

Woesa wowsa! I'm a frayed you're right Mr Knot. Thats been run a good bit more than I first realized, using my new phone and old eyes. Don't get another head off ebay, you'll get screwed. Maybe get by with another cam and rocker?

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the cam does indeed look damaged, not sure if the wear area of the lobe is ruined or not - the lobe is wider than the rocker arm contact surface, you should be able to see the wear marks on the cam to tell. replacing a cam is not a huge deal, couple hundred bucks, but i'd be more concerned about finding every single bit of metal that came off it, as well as all the parts to the valve train that came loose - including the valve guide seal and the little spring at the top that holds the seal around the valve stem. this happened to me last summer (there's a thread on here somewhere about it) and i was fortunate to not only have no cam damage but found all the little bits. pray to whatever god you hold dear that nothing found its way down the "hole of doom" (cam chain/front cover) or you'll be in for a long afternoon or two.

all that said, just know that these engines are tough, and there's nothing that can't be replaced or re-built.

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The cam is really damaged a lot. I was not able to find lash pad, only one small metal piece 5mmx5mm big which really scared me. 

I will check the wear area and pray for the best.

So if I was not able to find any of the missing bits I need to check the "hole of doom" which means get to the front of the engine? Well, great start of restoration project :D

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if bits went down the timing chain hole, you'll want to pull the oil pan and see what's down there. you can pull the pan with the engine in the car -it's tight but doable. get a good light and magnet to fish for anything in the front cover area. if it were me, i'd pull the head and get it surfaced, cleaned up, do the valves and new cam. the top end of these motors is where it all happens.

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The pan will be definitely cleaned. I have already ordered new sealing. Good to know I can drop it w/o engine removal.

I would like to avoid rebuild of the head, cam, valves, rocker arms...but if it will be necessary I might end up with performance cam - at least I have excuse to spend some money :)

Thanks a lot. I will keep you updated.

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pulling the head is a bit of a chore the first time, mostly because you will probably encounter a few frozen fasteners and it's uncomfortable to go into unknown territory, but it's really pretty straightforward. with the right tools and some help it's an afternoon's work for a shade tree mechanic.

 

i resisted until i warped one (plugged up cooling system) then dove in and got it done. you will learn a whole lot pretty quickly and a re-built head (done right) will really wake up your engine. and of course, there's the pride of knowing you did it yourself coupled with the confidence of knowing it's not going to blow up on you...

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Here are some follow up pictures. I have removed the oil pan and surprisingly found the entire lash pad untouched!

However, there were some small metal pieces - probably from camshaft and/or valve spring retainer (to the right from the release rocker arm).

 

I did find some scores in the cranshaft but I think it is nothing major.

crankshaft.jpg
 
 
1) small metal pieces
2) undamaged lash pad
3) some kind of silicone sealant
oil_pan.jpg

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I've never done it before but I've been told the cam can be replaced by jacking the front of the motor up to clear the radiator, if it needs replacing.  I think I would end up pulling the head because of all the other stuff that would have to come off too, like the rocker arms and that retainer that needs to be replaced.

 

I don't like working on the top of the motor in the car, the fenders are too thin and I always forget that.  :ermm:

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I checked the contact surface between rocker arm and cam lobe - the missing chunk is pretty big so I would rather replace the cam. Used ones are not so expensive.

I have also read somewhere it is enough to jack the front of the engine, so hopefully I will be able to do the repairs w/o removing the head or the engine completely.

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i know it sounds like a lot of work, but you will be much happier if you pull the head.

replacing the cam is a job that is best done on a bench. while not complicated, it requires time and patience to get the rocker wipe patterns right and it's a good bet your top end is full of carbon. get a copy of tom monroe's "how to rebuild your nissan & datsun", a set of new head bolts (courtesy nissan), a top end gasket set and a cam chain tensioner keeper tool, and a valve spring compressor, then clear off a bench, but down a towel and a couple of short pieces of 2x4 to lift it up off the valves and you're in business.

 

or you can do the (kinda) quick and (not really) easy path, replace the cam, hope for the best and maybe be back here in a short while anyway...

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I already have the book so I know what to expect.

Thanks for all the advice. I might go the longer, but safer way. I will just need to fight my impatience to start the engine.

 

Is it really needed to buy tensioner keeper or it is enough to use piece of wood as displayed here?

http://www.classiczcars.com/topic/19659-nerves-about-timing-chain/

 

Valve spring compressor is already on the way.

Edited by spoofan

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That link went to the valve spring compressor you're getting, good choice too.  Remember to fill the bores with cord or air pressure to keep the valves from falling.  

 

I used a long screwdriver handle on my first head removal, made me nervous but it worked.  I think a lot of people make their own out of hardwood like oak, just remember to drill a hole at the top to put your pull cord through.  Don't use a screw in eye bolt.   

 

I bought one of these and it makes all the difference to me, slides in and back out easily, $13.  You'll spend that on wood and your time is worth something, right?

 http://www.amazon.com/Alltrade-648831-Nissan-Timing-Holding/dp/B0002Q8TV4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1443546200&sr=8-1&keywords=datsun+timing+chain+tool

 

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Sry, I did paste wrong link - it is edited now. Well, $13 in US, but to buy it in Europe Â£45.33 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0002Q8TV4?keywords=Nissan%20Timing%20Chain%20Holding%20Tool%20for%201970%20to%201983%20Models&qid=1443556955&ref_=sr_1_1&sr=8-1) and that is really expensive. So I might go with the piece of wood.

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I replaced a cam in-situ. It required hood removal, loosening the engine mounts, and jacking up the engine. Be careful with exhaust and various other clearances when jacking up the motor. Depending on your exhaust manifold, you may have to loosen the steering rod that goes from the rack to the coupler.

 

It was a relatively simple and quick job. Dialing in the lash pad sizes for a custom cam is way more time-consuming than the actual cam replacement.

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Make a piece of wood. It will work fine, Oak or maple something hard with few splinters. Like Site said be sure and get a place to tie the rope securely. Pull the head, it is a more reliable way to repair the head with less risk

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Spoofan, I wouldn't assume that all of the chunks, little bits and tiny flakes of that cam made it to the bottom of the oil pan where you cleaned them out. I would be willing to bet that some of that fractured cam is still hung up in the oil gallery. All it would take is the smallest piece finding it's way to the rod or crank bearing surface and you would be looking at a complete rebuild.

As you mentioned it's best to take the patient route, flush the inside of the block down, make sure there is nothing hiding on the crank.

Chris

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I finally found some time to take out the engine. I was surprised how easy this is! So much space in the engine bay.

 

12096575_10205358738515962_1813906502243

 

Because "the winter is coming" I will have more time so I decided to strip down the engine and give it a good care whilst it is out of the car. 

Hopefully, there will be no other surprises like before.

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excellent move - you will be happy and sleep better knowing what is/isn't floating around inside...

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