Careless

240Z Resto - 01/1970 Car

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I'm a perfectionist as well and fan of doing it right the first time, so I feel your pain. You don't want to do all of this work and end up with something you're not happy with.

It also wouldn't surprise me if they did use multiple shades of the blue over time.

What about best 2 out of 3? Anyone use the engine blue from Classic Datsun Motorsports? Which one is it closer to?

http://www.classicdatsun.com/

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I just don't get how the colour could vary so wildly. It's definitely not different from weather/heat. It's TOO different to be that.

 

I have two cans of California Datsun paint that I don't think I can use now. But for some reason- one of the brackets and some other items I have laying around had the California Datsun colour sprayed on it. I wonder if the colour is actually the base coat they use before the dusty blue colour? 

 

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I'm 2nd owner of 9/70 built Z that's very original. I'll be pulling the engine in next month or two. I already have alternator and smog pump (CA car) off. I can try to get some photos tonight that show the color of the brackets and block for comparison to yours.

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Attached are pics of my original 4/70 motor complete with factory drips.  Attached is the repaint with paint from Classic Datsun Motorsport.  I think it is a very good match.

post-18091-0-34839900-1435246412_thumb.j

post-18091-0-83623700-1435246437_thumb.j

post-18091-0-41915300-1435246453_thumb.j

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Here is a paint formula though they don't show any examples:

 

http://www.xenonzcar.com/s30/enginepaint.html

 

Unfortunately, modern cameras are quick to modify the colors sensed in our photographs. They can be swayed by dominant colors, typically the color of the engine bay. A professional photographer can accurately capture this color but finding an un-aged, clean sample is difficult if not impossible.

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What djwarner said regarding cameras has also been my experience. The color correction of the monitor you are using matters too. The photo I have attached shows my original 24k mile block from my 72 240z. Hanging with it is a bracket I painted using the Classic Datsun Motorworks aerosol paint. Live, the block and the bracket look to be the same color and darker than this photo shows up on my monitor. The key difference between my block and the bracket is the gloss on the newly painted bracket vs the 43 year old paint on the block. Hope this helps.
 
post-7021-0-76684000-1435250394_thumb.jp
 
 
 

 

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You bring up an interesting point. The finish will change the appearance of the color. I wonder if the original blue paint was satin or matte finish. That could explain the difficulty matching the color. I don't remember a gloss finish on my original Zs' engine, but it was 2 years old when I got it.

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Here is a paint formula though they don't show any examples:

 

http://www.xenonzcar.com/s30/enginepaint.html

 

Unfortunately, modern cameras are quick to modify the colors sensed in our photographs. They can be swayed by dominant colors, typically the color of the engine bay. A professional photographer can accurately capture this color but finding an un-aged, clean sample is difficult if not impossible.

 

I have pretty good experience with cameras and lighting, as I studied photography for quite some time, and also have had plenty of thousands of dollars in camera equipment before I decided to move on to other interests- which is why I know for certain that the two colours vary much too wildly to be different in photos, but the same in person. The white-balance based on the cardboard, wood, and silver engine items in each photo can be used as a reference for the cold/hot levels of the photos- which generally change the hue- Plus, I've sampled parts of the other photos in Photoshop to get a better understanding of the lighting changes, and tried to adjust the overall image hue- and it really didn't do either colour any justice.

 

These two paint colours are entirely different. There are just too many online examples of the two shades with other items in the background to make it a camera sensor/lighting thing. This is my dilemma. LOL:P

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I'll have to get the paint from the shop and give it a good shake. Maybe bring it to home depot and see if they can shake the can for me in their shaky doohickey vibration thingamabob. perhaps some of the colour has settled to the bottom of the can.

 

doubt it, though! 

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Update. Pictures coming soon!

Got the Intake back from the powder coater. Pretty sure it matches perfectly, and I had them do the smoothest coating possible.  The first powder supplier I visited mentioned that the colour we used is even closer than the custom colour he could supply, and it's a perfect match by his standards. It looks amazing. Just as good as the OE single stage orange without clear coat- which is what the original intake was as far as I could tell from the fresh paint under the gaskets on the inside of the unit.

 

The radiator fan was also matched as close as we could get it without a custom colour. The issue I had with the fan from the beginning was that some areas were darker, and some were lighter- I guess due to being closer to the heat radiator or having a lot more abrasion wear. But either way it ended up amazing.

 

The alternator has been rebuilt to OE spec. The case is slightly more dull than I would like the timing cover and the valve cover to be, I am sending those out for further tumbling using plastic media and then a quick run through the ringer with corn cob media.

 

I also spray painted the balancer with the California Datsun blue, and I am happy with how it looks when it's sprayed over a grey primer. A white primer would perhaps be a slight bit closer, but I had trouble finding white engine primer, so I went with the grey. I will be spraying the engine next week.

 

I also took apart the oil pump and the distributor and ran the housings through the plastic media tumbler, while keeping the oil pump ports closed off. I just removed the gerotor from the inside. It managed to get all but the smallest bit of silver paint off the housing. I will be using a q-tip and some wax & grease remover to knock that off. Then I will run those through the corn cob media for 3 hours, and it will come out looking like assembly line parts.

 

I already ran the distributor base mount through it, and it looked astounding.

 

And it actually looks even better with the Sharkhide coating. When it's that bright, it doesn't change the surface to a dull finish, it just gives it a very slight shine and will protect it for years. I tested it on the spare lower t-stat housing, and it was perfect.

 

I only wish that I had sent the alternator out to get tumbled with the timing cover and valve cover, but for the sake of getting things moving, I let the unit be put back together with just the vapor blast and sharkhide. I'd say it looks great, either way.

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does the R..|..L timing adjustment indicator plate on the middle of the distributor have to be yellow zinc plated, or clear zinc? Can't really tell from the current condition, but it's looking like it's yellow zinc? Also, the vacuum advance diaphragm too, right?

I managed to block off the oil pump holes and run it through the tumbler and then used the corn cob media to brighten it up a bit more than OE. it's in a spot where you can barely see it, so it will not look much brighter than the timing cover when it's all assembled with a new top-plate gasket, so with the sharkhide, it will look excellent.

 

distributor housing and base looks great, although the D612-60 (ISO) etching is no longer visible on the flat plane where the vacuum advance diaphragm arm go through. I don't think it's a big problem. I'll make note of it, and took pictures beforehand, so if I find a way to use an ink transfer or someway to recreate the marking, I can do so in photoshop.

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Also looking for OE colour of the timing chain cover (3 bolts on the front of the cylinder head with an F stamped on the front).

 

It appears to be plated but at some point it was painted.

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Also looking for OE colour of the timing chain cover (3 bolts on the front of the cylinder head with an F stamped on the front).

 

It appears to be plated but at some point it was painted.

Yet another yellow item - cover plate, bolts, washers

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Awesome. Thank you!

I managed to put the distributor back together this morning, despite battling with the breaker plate, trying to figure out how it goes back together. I believe I got it. It has some good action on it now. The grease that was between the spring discs and ball bearings was so thick, it was uncured body filler.

 

Managed to put some new grease and lubed everything up with ACF-50, prior to wiping the inside of the housing with Sharkhide to prevent corrosion. 

 

I have some of the smaller parts in the tumbler, washing away right now. I'll post photos of my next large update when I have room to lay everything out and take some photos that do the stuff justice!

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received carbs from Z Therapy. They look amazing. Well done, nicely cleaned up by just brightening up the factory parts and rebuilding the carbs to better than OE specs. Excellent work.

 

I only want to remove two linkages that are easy to access, and the vacuum idle control actuator.  They are sprayed with a "faux" plated colour  that looks closer to orange or copper than it does yellow zinc, so I will tumble those and seal up the holes before sending them to get plated with hopefully the last batch of stuff I need to actually start putting parts on the car.

 

Also, the heat shield under the carbs has a "cold galvanized" coating on it. A very flat grey look to it. I've seen some with yellow zinc plating... Opinions? I can't seem to find the finish in the photos i've been given.

 

It's a little unnerving when you go to bolt something up and realize you're missing something- and you find it... right after a plating run! the delay becomes the biggest hassle. And I can't do this thing without that thing, and those things, and etc.

 

How are you guys fastening the oil pan to the block? I see the old cork gasket style was used. To be honest, I've never used cork gaskets, always took them out of the gasket kits and put them as trophies on the wall because they've never served me well, and most of the engines i've done re-gasketing on had just the rubber end pieces and were upgraded to RTV/form-a-gasket... Should I use the cork and lightly brush on some RTV to both sides?

 

Also, being that the engine is assembled... Is there anything I should be aware of when rotating the motor over to install the pan (rather than doing it upside down)? There are no Lost Motion Assembly pieces or shims that can come loose, are there? Once it's bolted up, it should be good ok to turn over, if I'm not mistaken?

 

I never took apart my L26 when I had it, sooooooo.

 

 

Oh, anddd... What are your guys opinions on spraying the manifolds with cast-iron high temp paint? I would like to do a bunch of light coats so that they don't build up and become shiny- but enough to prevent the item from developing ugly rust. 

VHT has a good paint that i've used, and it's available in cast iron colour, which is pretty close to real cast iron from what I've seen.

 

Now if I could only get this stupid air injection gallery tube off so I can have it plated... Maybe I should just get another one and clean this one up and offer it for sale later.

Edited by Careless

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Hi Careless,

Heat shield should be gray, not yellow. Inverting the engine is not a problem.

When I rebuilt my engine, I used the cork gasket. Having had poor luck in the past as you have had, I took time to ensure the oil pan flange was flattened around the bolt holes and laid a straight edge around the perimeter to eliminate any low spots. Lacking a large, flat surface to double check for flatness, I laid the pan on the engine block and probed with a feeler gauge.

When you are ready to install the pan, oil the timing chain once more. Lay a small bead of sealant on the block and apply the gasket. Use a torque wrench to avoid warping the pan and re-torque several times as the gasket will slowly take a set as you tighten. When the torque wrench clicks without additional turning of the bolts, you have arrived.

As for the high temp paint, is has to be heat cured. They mention you can cure it by warming the engine in a specific procedure, but my results were certainly not up to your standards. If you use it, try to bake it in an oven as recommended. Others have baked it in a gas barbeque. In either case, cure it off the engine.

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Cork gaskets do not like to be over tightened. That is many times the reason for failure.

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Thanks for all the replies, guys.

 

I went ahead and did some more tumbling and disassembling more parts and what not.

 

Does anyone know how to take the back housing completely off the smog pump? Do I have to remove the front 3 bolts that hold the plate on underneath the pulley mounting flange, or does the flange come out first, and then the entire assembly gets pressed out? 

I would like to have the pump housing tumbled when i bring the valve cover and timing cover to the large tumbling facility so that the housing looks brand new. as it looks like it's seen better days. I am hoping to plate the entire back housing if it's possible so that i can then tape off the plated tubes/elbows and give it a quick coat of black or cast iron. looks like it was black phosphate coated before the tubes were pressed in, but I don't find it economical to do anything like that.

 

It will still be under the minimum charge for the items I am taking to tumble, so I might as well have at it.

 

 

In other news, I found that Meguires HOT SHINE tire shine is my new tumbler solution of choice for plastic pyramid media, with about a cup and a half of water... and for the dry shine media- a couple of table spoons of CLEAR (not "natural") furniture/floor/wood wax heated up until liquid and dropped into the dry shine media really brings out the lustre on old and new items alike. You just gotta let it run through for an hour before tumbling the actual parts so the dry corn cob media soaks up the wax and breaks down the clumps evenly. 

 

I will be posting photos as soon as I get the next stuff back from the plater and the tumbler place. the anti-backfire valve came out brand new, as well as the fuel pump. But I would like to remove the pivot pin from the fuel pump arm so that I can run it through the dry shine media to brighten it up a touch to match the carb hats and valve cover, so I think I just have to heat up the housing a little bit and press the steel pin all the way through one side. Should be relatively simple. The replacement pump I was given was not for a 240z head, the bolt pattern is different.

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Hi again, Ladies and Gents!

 

So I had a tough time removing the air gallery tube from the E30 stamped exhaust manifold.

 

I had to cut one of the extension pitot tubes that protrude into the exhaust ports. They seem to be either stainless or inconel. Does anyone know where I can get a couple of those to replace the one I had to cut as well as some of the ones that have split at the end?

I had to drill out one of the flare nuts that broke off at the hex, and tried to use extraction bits. The only solution was to hammer it from the port tube side to fold it up and curl what was left out of there. I think there is about half the tube nut thread still in there from my calibrated cyborg eye gauge. It should hold well. I tested with another tube from a different port as well as a tube nut, and it held a decent amount of torque. I will be using an end-tap to clean it up further in there. My only other options would be to helicoil, timesert, or build up some material via welding and then tap it out again. I don't want to do that on an oily/shitty 1970's casting that looks more porous than SpongBob Squarepants. 

 

Can these be made from nominal stainless tube with a suitable flare tool? I doubt mine would work, it would probably just slip on the tube while flaring- unless I heat it up prior to flaring. 

 

looking for some ideas if ya got 'em! I did promise some photos. those will come soon. I am starting to assemble the car next week (finally) after receiving the last bit of plated parts.

 

 

Also, I was wondering if the pivot arm on the fuel pump housing can be removed by pressing the pin out of the side. It seems as though it's using some sort of cap, as I tried pressing from both sides and they both went in and didnt transfer over to any one side... I'd like to use the fuel pump I have as it's in good condition but I want to tumble the housing in the corn cob media.

Edited by Careless

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yes, I am going to buy that one- but I need the tubes that go underneath the air galley. they are not part of the air galley itself. 

 

There is another air galley locally that is much cheaper and i can have it plated to match the rest of the carb and engine fasteners... but i still need those tubes. The problem I have with that one at jdm-car-parts is that the finish is like that of the newer plated stuff. Oddly enough, the parts I've seen NOS from 15 or so years ago are nearly identical to the plating I have done at my local guy. The newer stuff is more silvery undertone... really upsets the look, but If I can't get the local one, I'll grab that one.

 

I believe they are 5/16 inch stainless tube with a regular 37 degree single flare.

Edited by Careless

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Hi Chris,

 

Thanks for the offer. The issue I seem to have with the air galley tube is that it's tough to take them off in good condition. Either the tube nuts round off or they are just plain stuck on there! My machinist tried with the oxy torch and couldn't get them to budge at all. I'll consult with the vehicle owner and see what he would like to do. 

 

The sharkhide seems to be very good. The brighter/shinier the part is, the better it comes out- as it's light sheen matches the underlying shine much easier and it blends in nicely. I will be sharkhiding everything that I've assembled up until now on Sunday. I just did a demo for a friend who was helping me make room in the garage for more Z stuff and after 5 minutes of drying you couldn't tell it was even on the piece of aluminum we put it on, and I did put a nice layer on there. It's like a clear coat without all the issues I've had with clear coat. No heat curing. No yellowing due to UV or age, and no cracking, peeling, or chipping. 

 

It's barely visible, and if you try to scrape it off with something, you end up scraping off aluminum, so it's very thin and self levelling to a degree. I think it will be great. I just need to find something I can wipe it on with that's a bit better than the cotton pads i'm using right now. I need something like cotton baby diaper, as recommended by the manufacturer. If it ends up looking ugly, you can wipe it off with a heavy wipe with any regular solvent, acetone, thinner.  

 

The most important part is to have a uniform finish on the shine/surface of the underlying part, and to then have it clean and free from oils and foreign items. A good quick scrub with a tooth brush only used with brake clean, acetone, or wax/grease remover seems to work best prior to applying, and works well for removing it.

Edited by Careless

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What you need are the micro fiber cloths, they leave no lint and hold a lot of whatever liquid you are using.

I cut them up into 1.5"x1.5" patches for doing touch of paint when I don't want to mask and spray.

Old T-shirts work well too but will leave fibers in the paint sometimes.

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