Is bigger better?

[Zlishous]

Hi all,

Just wondering if bigger sway bars are better for racing?

I was going through some of my old parts and came across a 3 in. sway that i forgot i had!

So, that said, should i put it on the front or on the back or: don't put it on at all?

Thanks,

Paul

[2ManyZs]

Err, 3 inch? :cross-eye

[ZmeFly]

what did it come off of a F350ROFL

[2ManyZs]

More like a Kenworth.....

[Zlishous]

ooops,

wrong key!!!!! Meant 2!

[Brett240]

are you sure 2 inches? thats still unbelievably massive.

[Zlishous]

It is quite large, i even just went out and measured it!, I really just want some kind of advice here as to wether bigger is better or worse or whatever, can somebody offer any ADVICE here?

Thanks,

Paul

[tanny]

Maybe you mean circumference?

[Zlishous]

Yes circumfrence,

Can someone give sway bar advice and not criticize my lack of knowledge? I am sure everyone here knows better than I what i am asking.:stupid:

[2ManyZs]

I haven't seen one that was bigger than 1 7/8(280) but that doesn't mean 2 inch weren't made...

I'd say a 2 inch bar would only be good for a truly serious race car, one with all the suspension mods such as coil overs with very stiff springs and probably racing on slicks. On a street car with stock or slightly higher than stock spring rates, a bar that large is going to defeat the purpose.

If you are going to drive the car at all on the street, I wouldn't use it as it is going to effectively increase your "kidney pounding" to an unacceptable level. You will stiffen the suspension even more with a bar that large, of course, body roll will be a thing of the past....:cross-eye

You will need to increase the bar size incrementally with the up rating of your springs, ie. stock springs will work with stock bars or slightly larger, stiffer springs with slightly larger to another step larger bar....Bars like you describe would be best left to a GT car with slicks and a very stiff chassis as well as a very stiff suspension.

Think of it this way, if your springs allow the suspension to compress easily, the sway bar then is put into the equation and will effectively act as a torsion bar to try to counter act the suspension movement, if enough stress is put on the bar trying to overcome soft springs, you could end up ripping the bar mounts right out of the frame rail.

[Zlishous]

Thanks 2many, that is the knowledge i was looking for. I am only going to be using this car for racing, so sloowly but surely i will be upgrading. You are saying that i need, basically race type springs to handle a bigger bar, any suggestions? I am ordering Tokicko 5 way adjustables and would like to add good springs at the same time, so any spring advice would be greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks again for the help!, i obviously need it, i am feeling my way through the dark and learning on the fly.

[2ManyZs]

That's a question that can't be answered without knowing what kind of racing you are going to do.

Is it something you are planning on doing a coil-over? If not, and you are just going to use stiffer stock type springs, you probably won't need a bar that big.

Actually, you should choose your bars after choosing the spring, strut cartridge set-up...Of course, if there is a way of making this bar adjustable, then you could tune it to whatever you handling needs are after you have built the rest of the suspension and tested it to see what your handling is like....

[Mudge]

Sway bars REDUCE the independance of each side of the suspension, if you see a car lifting one side of itself in a hard corner, there is some form of suspension bind and/or TOO MUCH bar.

There is always a balance, it is not as easy as simply going for the biggest setup possible. If that were the case we would still be running solid axles front and rear.

In my experience, AutoX guys run the big bars and smaller springs. Road race, or open road guys will run more spring and less bar (i.e. stock or mildly "upgraded" bars). You also need to pay attention to front/rear balance, your driving style, and so on.

[Zlishous]

Thanks guys, good info. I mostly will autox the car, with a slow switch to track racing, mostly at Infenion Raceway.

I have actually come to find out that the bar is a 1" bar, so i don't think the change will be that drastic. I was just hoping to get a better than stock bar on there. I just put on strut bars front and rear and now i am going to change out all the bushings when i switch bars.

Thanks again for the help.

[Mudge]

Zlishous, depending where your $ priorities might be, I find that even poly bushings/endlinks on stock bars is a very nice 'upgrade.' Basically they will force the bar to work a little quicker, since you wont have as much slop in the bushings, of course the hardcore guys will often go solid endlinks but that costs more dough and requires some fabrication.

[Royce]

Zlish,

You might want to just try things as they are before making changes. Replacing worn out parts, like bushings, shocks, springs, etc. is one thing. But simplicity and a slightly under developed car is really the best way to learn! A overmodified car will be less forgiving and can be frustrating until you get the hang of things. Also, once you get out there you will start talking with folks that have been doing this for a while and get some tips from them. Remeber, no setup is ideal for all situations. While one setup is best for one track or one autox course. A totally different setup might be best for another.

That being said, going with a 1" front swaybar would not be over the top. Also, it may help keep the rear wheels down and may be helpful in limiting wheel spin if you don't have a limit slip or locked rear diff.

Hope it helps!

[Mudge]

Very true, once you start modding the car you will TAKE AWAY its current feel, and I find the stock 240 to be a pretty darn neutral car. I do have cut springs however, but other than that it is essentially suspension-STOCK.

We have a tendency to think its the car that needs improving but a good driver in a stock car can easily whup the pants off an inexperienced driver in a "setup" car, and every time you make a change you will be re-learning the car, unless of course your driving so slow as to not require it

[Zlishous]

Mudge, .

Have you seen anyone use the "quick links" that MSA offers?

They are an adjustable end link, just wondering if anyone has used these and if they are worth the 45.00 bucks? I had planned on upgrading to poly end link bushings, but thought this might be a nice alternative.

Thanks, Zlish

[Mudge]

If they are a solid end link I would be interested in them for the price, I will have to take a look see at the catalog.

An adjustable end link is for the purpose of proper end link geometry if you lower the car. You can however cut the 'sleeve' of the end link down for proper genmetry, once you have your desired ride height set in (if this changes with you having a coil over setup, then you may want multiple, or just a flat out adjustable setup, $45 sounds good!).

Without proper end link length, you will have premature bushing wear (they will mushroom outwards) and the sway bar will not be as effective as it should, although mostly its a bushing wear issue I'd say, but I suppose it depends how far things are off, as far as effecting sway bar effectiveness.

[Zlishous]

They are on pg 63 of the newest catalog, they utilize a rod end bearing lined with carbon fiber. Take a look an d give me your opion, i am gonna change out my end links, as after seeing mine off the car they are pretty rusted out.

[Mudge]

Thier wording is interesting, "with two alignment holes stiffness adjustments are a snap."

What stiffness do they mean I am not sure, there is zero load on the sway bar until you are turning the car (leaning), which twists the sway bar. I would be more interested if it were rod ended on both sides, but it still could be a nice peice, hmm.

I'm not really sure there is much if any benefit to such a peice.

Feel very free to get another opinion

[Zlishous]

I am just wondering if i should stick with the stock links for now and upgrade the bushings? These links seem a little over my head, would i even notice the difference between the two?

[2ManyZs]

I've thought about using those end links. They won't make the bar any "stiffer" like they state, just bring it's effectiveness on sooner(less suspension travel) if you shorten them up, such as if you were to use a shorter sleeve.

But then, they do look like they would possibly be stiffer than the stock piece, so you might actually get more out of a slightly stiffer bar than if you used a stiffer bar with the stock pieces......

45 is fairly cheap, and you do have an easy way to play with the handling. If you spend a couple hundred on new sway bars and find the handling isn't quite what you want, at least you can easliy tinker with it to try to make it better....

[Mudge]

All too often in the aftermarket, they dont really advertise products with nice facts to back them up, seems like whatever will make someone jump and say "I need that" is what they use to describe a product. Half the time your sales rep wont know what something does either

Bushings would be nice, but I think that end links actually make more difference, in other words get both! You can re-use end links on another bar set if you buy a set of aftermarket bars someday. The bushings wont be useable since they will be the wrong size. When you buy the MSA set at least for the front (I dont have a rear bar), you will get bushings for the end links and the 2 bushings for the center of the bar. Not sure how thier rear package is setup, I'm sure it says in the catalog.

Cutting the center sleeve of the end link if your car is lowered, is very easy.

I guess since one end of the MSA unit is rod-ended, it must be a little stiffer, but the bottom bushings are still going to die eventually, I'd rather have rod ends on both sides but it would cost a bit, quality rod ends aren't cheap - and then you have to adapt it to the bar, heck nothing is cheap race-wise is it