$38K for an Automatic!

[auzziez]

If this sweet looking thing sells for $38K i'd be surprised.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Datsun-Z-Series-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZalgoQ3dSIQ26ituQ3dUCIQ252BUAQ252BFICSQ26otnQ3d10Q26pmodQ3d120704418733Q252B250795451416Q252B200591531970Q26poQ3dLVIQ26psQ3d63Q26clkidQ3d8436386733811808284QQ_trksidZp5197Q2em263QQitemZ290553900609#ht_1050wt_1161

[FastWoman]

Nice! But contrary to the seller's claims, there's a touch of rust in the hatch area. I'll pass.

[EScanlon]

Fastwoman:

I think that in your rush to jump on the "Price-Bashing" hysteria that erupts whenever a Z is offered for sale for more than salvage pricing, you've identified regular old dirt/ paint discoloration as "rust".

See the pictures, and it's plainly dirt/grime.

E

[5thhorsemann]

The price IS high, but so is the quality! Not that I want one, but I don't recall ever seeing an automatic that is as sweet as this one. REALLY RARE CAR.

[IdahoKidd]

If, and I say if, that car is a 10, mine is an 8+, and I received one (1) spam request about my car for $33K less. Not in this lifetime will that car sell for $38K on ebay. And I agree with FastWoman, there is rust under the hatch rubber and ?? And it has a black interior. Who buys that color car with a black interior when a white is available?

Leonard

[FastWoman]

E, I'm not saying it's not an amazing car! I hope someone clicks that "buy it now" button. Too rich for my blood, though.

[7T1240]

This car is also listed for sale on CZC member esprist's website. http://jdm-car-parts.com/category/8-cars-for-sale/

I cannot say if esprist is also the ebay seller. My assumption is that he is. If so, he is extremely knowledgeable about Z's, and is very active in the Z community. (If you look around that website, you'll see what I mean.) Most recently he started a thread on this site on reproduction parts he is having made - http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?41915-Reproduction-parts-for-240Z-Check-these-out!

Gary S.

The auction does say "Before anything, part of the money for this auction goes to Tsunami Relief Fund in Japan." I'd be curious to know how the donation part is structured. Perhaps the car is valued at 20K plus, and anything over that is to be considered a charitable donation?

[EScanlon]

... And I agree with FastWoman, there is rust under the hatch rubber and ?? And it has a black interior. Who buys that color car with a black interior when a white is available?

Leonard

And I insist that you two are mis-identifying the dirty adhesive residue used to mount the hatch seal as rust.

And as far as Black interiors... the majority of vehicles had the black interior.

Additionally, the sales of these cars were such that you didn't go in and place an order with a list of wants. IF a vehicle arrived with that color and a white interior AND you were next in the line to receive a vehicle then usually your choices were "Accept it or Not".

But once again, I point out that the most vehement posts denigrating higher pricing for ANY Z, come from other Z owners.

"We have met the enemy, and he is US! Pogo

Those who bash the pricing do the car a dis-service. There are undoubtedly people who remember or yearn for a Z, who in turn do research to find out more about them. THIS site is the top site through the major search engines, and then they find the "learned" viewpoint considers the pricing to be exorbitant, and a hundred other reasons why NOT to buy.

Any wonder why people such as Esprist and others find it such an economic RISK to endeavour to produce parts for these cars? If, as they see it, those who would presumably appreciate the car, don't VALUE it; then nobody is going to spend money to repair one, hence... no replacement part investment is going to pay off...period.

FWIW

E

[Casey_z]

And I insist that you two are mis-identifying the dirty adhesive residue used to mount the hatch seal as rust.

And as far as Black interiors... the majority of vehicles had the black interior.

Additionally, the sales of these cars were such that you didn't go in and place an order with a list of wants. IF a vehicle arrived with that color and a white interior AND you were next in the line to receive a vehicle then usually your choices were "Accept it or Not".

But once again, I point out that the most vehement posts denigrating higher pricing for ANY Z, come from other Z owners.

"We have met the enemy, and he is US! Pogo

Those who bash the pricing do the car a dis-service. There are undoubtedly people who remember or yearn for a Z, who in turn do research to find out more about them. THIS site is the top site through the major search engines, and then they find the "learned" viewpoint considers the pricing to be exorbitant, and a hundred other reasons why NOT to buy.

Any wonder why people such as Esprist and others find it such an economic RISK to endeavour to produce parts for these cars? If, as they see it, those who would presumably appreciate the car, don't VALUE it; then nobody is going to spend money to repair one, hence... no replacement part investment is going to pay off...period.

FWIW

E

What he said!

People research this site and believe what they read.

A little self promotion would help people who invest big in a great car.

No sense shooting ourselves in the foot.:stupid:

Casey

[Mike B]

Escanlon,

You post this same type of comment any time someone else comments about a Z car for sale. If you think $38,750 is such a great deal for the car, hit the buy-it-now button. In a prior thread about this same car, it was noted that the current owner recently bought it from the original owner for $14K. To me that means the seller is asking a lot more than the car than it is really worth, or the prior owner got a really bad deal, or maybe a bit of both. If the seller was asking $14k to $20K for it, I bet the car would have sold by now and people would think it was a fair price for a nice car. If you really think "the most vehement posts denigrating higher pricing for ANY Z, come from other Z owners" you haven't spent much time looking at other sites, like bring-a-trailer.com, not just when Z cars are being sold, but ANY car listed for sale. The whole idea that comments on this site about specific cars and opinions about their worth brings down the value of Z cars is naive at best. Value is what someone will actually pay, based on supply and demand, not based on what opinions are posted on a website. Maybe I'll start posting that I think 1967 big bock Corvettes are worthless on a Corvette site, so I can get one for next to nothing . Whether you like it or not, there is still a large supply of Z cars in the US, relative to the demand. Most Americans value the big boat US made muscle cars they and their families grew up with. Even then, the really high prices only go to cars that are very limited production high performance models. Since most Z cars sold in the US only had few, if any, factory options and no factory high performance models were sold here, that will always limit their appeal and value to the masses, in my opinion. I own 240Zs because I like them, not because I consider them a good investment.

Your comment about scaring off people wanting to make replacement parts is equally off base. People make replacement parts because they think they can make some money on them, which means they have to sell a relatively large number of parts. People make reproduction parts for muscle cars because there are a TON of them. There were so many variations in Z parts over the years it is tough to find many parts that are correct for a large number of cars. Given the small size of the market, it's really hard to make a quality part that can be sold for a reasonable price. THAT is why so few are made.

Anyway, that is my 2 cents.

FWIW

-Mike

[EScanlon]

I seem to have struck a nerve with you Mike B. Perhaps because you've been one of those whose posts have been so pointed at bashing pricing??

Your comment:

You post this same type of comment any time someone else comments about a Z car for sale.

Is bluntly... wrong.

I post those comments when it is apparent that once again the "let's bash this sale" mentality pops it's ugly head. That's when the slightest little detail is used as justification to denigrate the car and to point out how the seller is ripping people off, scamming, asking too much, etc. etc.

There are many sales where I don't comment at all, both low and high pricing. Only when the "bash this sale" comments arise do I make the comment.

It is the same group of people who jump onto the price-bashing merry-go-round and then begin to try to best one another's witty comment.

If you feel that only people who are in the market to buy/sell should opine on pricing, then you also should not be commenting.

Your comment:

To me that means the seller is asking a lot more than the car than it is really worth, or the prior owner got a really bad deal, or maybe a bit of both. If the seller was asking $14k to $20K for it, I bet the car would have sold by now and people would think it was a fair price for a nice car.

Mentions several items; the car's "real" worth, a "bad deal" and a "fair price", yet all of these aren't fixed values. You preface it with "To me..." which says they are YOUR opinion, and therefore not a fact nor actual reference source such as NADA / Kelly / Hagerty et al. Who put you in charge of deciding "fair pricing" for Z's?

As far as the price, it does seem disproportionate to what other cars of similar value have been selling for, but I haven't been searching for another car nor trying to compare pricing to prove how over or under priced they are.

Your comments about being "naive" are at best... insulting, which I note. Sadly, they do point out your myopic viewpoint... if it doesn't support your theory, the data must be ignored.

Opinion DOES drive demand and therefore pricing. Don't believe that? Then why do companies advertise? Why deal with bad customer experiences? Seems to me it's you that are looking at the situation ... naively.

Take the time to go to SEMA sometime, ask the various manufacturers WHY they don't manufacture parts for the Z's and you'll find that owner apathy is but ONE reason.... I personally talked to several manufacturers there and found that they simply don't see it as being profitable... not because of the supposed vehicle numbers you cite, but that the price they would have to ask for the part would not be paid. The number of vehicles IS an attractive point, the item that kills the deal... the current owners unwillingness to pay for the parts.

And yes, believe it or not, they cite discussions such as this on sites like this to base their decisions on.

E

[FastWoman]

FAIW, I firmly believe that the value of almost any "ordinary" collector car (i.e. not some rare limited edition car, extremely low VIN car, historically important car, etc.) is based mostly on the effort and cost usually necessary to restore a car to that condition, coupled with the willingness of someone to dump that sort of time and money into the car. A rough 1964 1/2 Mustang fastback might be worth $1000. A rough 1970 240Z might also be worth $1000. Restored as nice DD cars, both might be worth $8-12k. Frame-up, show-condition cars might be worth much more. These nicer cars demand these sorts of values mostly because they cost that much to put in that sort of condition, not because there are a bunch of enthusiasts somewhere rah-rah'ing their cars in multiple orgasms.

I also own a Miata and am active on a Miata list. Miata owners drool over Miatas even more than Z owners drool over Zs. While Z owners freely admit there are a few shortcomings in the Z design (e.g. in the charging system), Miata owners are steadfastly incapable of realizing there are any shortcomings in the Miata design (e.g. some very badly designed hydraulic lifters, a problematic cam angle sensor O-ring, a really fragile heater core, etc.). To them, the Miata is the PERFECT car. So why aren't Miatas more valuable than Zs? Miatas seem to cost maybe 1/3 what Zs do in parts, and they're not old enough yet that they require much work to put them in top condition, so not surprisingly, pristine NA Miatas will sell for maybe half to a third of what pristine Zs sell for. Wait until the parts get rare and the bodies get rustier, and the gap will close. Believe me, if value were only driven by enthusiasm, Miatas would be commanding enormous prices.

In the end, are Z cars undervalued? Maybe just a bit, but maybe not by much. We like to feel slighted when we compare the value of our cars to the great American Muscle cars of the 60's, but honestly we're comparing two different decades. How many 1970's muscle cars sell for what the 1960's muscle cars do? What do you think a 70's turbo Trans Am (hailed by many at the time to be the epitome of American Muscle) would sell for in fine shape? Have patience, and our cars will command the better prices too. I don't think there's any disrespect of Japanese collector cars. I just think the Japanese cars didn't come into their own until the 70's. It's not yet time for them to be extremely valuable.

And to be perfectly clear, I never said the perfect 240 isn't worth $38k. I was merely joking about anyone who has that sort of money to throw around in these very challenging economic times. I know I wish *I* had that kind of money to throw at such frivolities, but my frivolity budget is much more modest.