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zKars

Found some Bilstein inserts.

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    The P30 series can be adapted to the 240Z. It does require re-valving (depending on intended use), a specific gland nut, spacers under the inserts (if not running shortened struts) and the "D" hole in the stock insulators drilled round.

    Re-valving is $75 per shock. I don't know what the shock purchase price is but I'll have more info next week. Typical track valving is 300/100.

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    Thanks for the information John and I am looking forward to an update next week. I'd be interested to know what a new, modified for our use set would cost.

    The set I have are the same as Carl mentioned in post #14 with the "D shaped" shock rod that keys into the stock insulator, specifically designed for the 240Z. The only spacers are inverted 6mm cup washers. I don't have another set of struts here to measure and can't see any sign of the struts being shortened (in answer to rxsleeper's question a few years ago). The Suspension Techniques springs don't require compression to be installed. Is that a typical characteristic of ST springs for a '70 Z or I'm wondering if maybe they have been cut?

    Edited by geezer
    added clarity

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    I finally did get around to sending my inserts to Bilstein for a rebuild. I kept the existing valving and they also replaced the rods. They were great people to work with. Very quick turn around and they even took the time to call and arrange the cheapest shipping. I just opened the box and removed one to look at it and the doorbell rang again. It was my new Fujitsuto stainless exhaust being delivered. :)

    Edited by geezer

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    Ron,

    That looks awesome!!! Just like mine... but mine aint that shiny anymore :*( RHDJapan got that to you relatively quickly... It was a 2-3 month delivery for mine!

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    I have recently joined the Bilstein religion. I bought a custom valved set for another car and quickly came to love them. This was also after reading the FarNorthRacing article as well.

    So I am now actively shopping for strut inserts and springs for the 240Z and would love, love, love to get a set of Bilsteins for it.

    John Coffey, put me on your list of potential customers if you find something that will work on a street Z. I need to buy the springs too...

    Thanks all for the great thread,

    Al

    Edited by 240Z-Fan

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    I finally did get around to sending my inserts to Bilstein for a rebuild. I kept the existing valving and they also replaced the rods. They were great people to work with. Very quick turn around and they even took the time to call and arrange the cheapest shipping. I just opened the box and removed one to look at it and the doorbell rang again. It was my new Fujitsuto stainless exhaust being delivered. :)

    Ron, that exhaust look great, link please:classic:

    Chris

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    The P30 series can be adapted to the 240Z. It does require re-valving (depending on intended use), a specific gland nut, spacers under the inserts (if not running shortened struts) and the "D" hole in the stock insulators drilled round.

    Re-valving is $75 per shock. I don't know what the shock purchase price is but I'll have more info next week. Typical track valving is 300/100.

    If you ever figure this out, I will be willing to buy a set for my 240Z as well. It would be a very nice option.

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    I can't believe it. I found a complete set of new, never installed Bilsteins still in their original boxes.

    2 each P 30 061

    2 each P 30 062

    (In this case, all four have yellow cartridges. Not green like in post 1)

    I just received them today. They look fantastic. They even have the straps that hold the shafts in place.

    Can these insets be used with stiffer springs? If so, what is the practical limit for spring rates?

    Thanks all,

    Al

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    Dunno. Send them to me and I'll test them extensively to find out. ;)

    (Man, I'd love to have found a set of NOS like that.)

    Seriously, I suspect they were originally designed to be used with factory springs. But from past experience with Bilsteins in other cars, I'm sure they would also work fine with a bit stiffer than stock.

    Edited by Arne

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    Dunno. Send them to me and I'll test them extensively to find out. ;)

    Arne,

    I would love to have you test them for me, but I would hate to put you through so much work just to help me out. It wouldn't be right. :D

    However, I will be sure to let you know if I find another set.

    Currently waiting for Bilstein to call me back. I want know if Bilstein recommends rebuilding them and if they would have parts for them. I suspect the seals won't last given the age. But who knows.

    If need be, there are other reputable Bilstein rebuilders that probably can rebuild them.

    Now I need to choose springs. Something I can install on the car without modifying the strut housings. Any ideas? anyone? :-)

    Al

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    If you can find a set, I like the repro euro springs I cut-down for my car. The spring rate is about 10-15% firmer than stock US springs. They do need to be cut some to give normal ride height, but no mods other than that. Several of the people who got in on that group buy bought more than one set - maybe someone has a set they'd be willing to part with?

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    I bought a Seires 1 parts car a while back and found a NOS set of factory inserts in the boxes. Does anyone know how well these performed? jlp

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    I bought a Seires 1 parts car a while back and found a NOS set of factory inserts in the boxes. Does anyone know how well these performed? jlp
    Factory Nissan inserts? No idea. Probably similar to KYB but w/o the increased ride height of the gas KYBs. Edited by Arne

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    I wasn't aware that Nissan ever made replacement inserts. Interesting.

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    I wasn't aware that Nissan ever made replacement inserts. Interesting.

    The original struts didn't have "inserts".

    The FSM gives instructions on rebuilding them, but to my knowledge no one ever did, rather replacing them with after market inserts.

    For histories sake, if you have the part numbers or photo's of these factory parts or boxes, please post them.

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    The original struts didn't have "inserts".

    The FSM gives instructions on rebuilding them, but to my knowledge no one ever did, rather replacing them with after market inserts.

    For histories sake, if you have the part numbers or photo's of these factory parts or boxes, please post them.

    Part #'s 56205-E4125 & 56105-N3785

    I don't know which is front set or rear set.

    Instructions in English and Japanese

    post-7454-14150814975051_thumb.jpg

    post-7454-14150814975272_thumb.jpg

    post-7454-14150814975376_thumb.jpg

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    If you can find a set, I like the repro euro springs I cut-down for my car. The spring rate is about 10-15% firmer than stock US springs. They do need to be cut some to give normal ride height, but no mods other than that. Several of the people who got in on that group buy bought more than one set - maybe someone has a set they'd be willing to part with?

    Arne,

    This sounds appealing. I want to keep my car looking mostly stock and am reluctant to section struts and go to a adjustable coilover setup. So this sounds like the way to go for me. The higher rate springs will be even higher when cut down. So it may be a nice setup, and hopefully within range of the Bilsteins damping ability.

    I remember when the group buy, too bad I didn't get a set. Well, I'll start looking for a set.

    My goal is to keep the car streetable for the lousy midwest roads, but I have gotten quite used to high spring rates (and great handling) in my track and street Miata. So the Z feels a quite soft, especially with the 14" High Performance all seasons with tall sidewalls. (so good performance tires on 15" wheels are part of the plan too).

    John Coffey, (if you are put there), any additional pearls of wisdom?

    Thanks Arne (and anyone else who chimes in),

    Al

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    The higher rate springs will be even higher when cut down.
    No, the factory springs were all linear rate, not progressive. So the rate will be unchanged when cut. All the cut did for me was correct the ride height.

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    No, the factory springs were all linear rate, not progressive. So the rate will be unchanged when cut. All the cut did for me was correct the ride height.

    Changing properties of a spring will change its spring rate. It doesn't matter whether a spring is linear or progressive, when you start cutting coils the spring rate will increase. Simple physics.

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    Where in the UK did you get your Bilsteins and are they standard length or shortened?

    Regards

    Tim

    I know its a long time since your post but I've only just noticed it! Bilsteins available from Bilstein UK, Leicester, Google them.

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    Go do the math on spring rates. I remember Dan Baldwin did the math maybe 10 years ago, and with the amount of spring he cut off the rate increased something like 3 or 5%.

    Euro springs are still pretty soft. Softer than Tokicos or Eibachs or ST springs as I recall. Bumping them up a little isn't going to hurt anything.

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    Insomnia is a bitch. Just found a calculator and did some estimating: http://www.pontiacracing.net/js_coil_spring_rate.htm

    If you plug in .455 for the wire diameter and 10 coils and an outside spring diameter of 4.625, you get a spring rate of 83.12, which is pretty close to stock. I found a picture of a stock spring, and it looked like it had 10 coils. Remove one coil, spring rate goes up to 92 lbs, which is ~11%. Cut two coils, it goes to 103, which is 24%. It may be that Dan just cut 1/2 coil. Regardless, 103 in/lb is still a really lightweight spring.

    Looking at Arne's example, if the Euro was 15% stiffer than stock, that would make it about 95 lbs. Adjust the spring wire diameter to .47 and that gets you in the ball park, and then cut a coil and a half (guess), and you get 112 lbs, a change of 19%, but still, a very light spring.

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    I bought a Seires 1 parts car a while back and found a NOS set of factory inserts in the boxes. Does anyone know how well these performed? jlp

    Jerry,

    Sorry that I didn't notice your question earlier. Nice find on the factory inserts. It has been 40 years so I can't be very specific, but I would agree that the ride and performance was probably most comparable to the KYB inserts as I remember. I do remember having a set of Konis installed some years later and noticing a markedly firmer ride with less body sway. I currently have a set of Mulhollands paired with repro springs offered at Courtesy a few year back. One of the Mulhollands, after probably some 30+ years on the shelf, is binding and the ride is way too firm so I am considering another set of Konis. I would do KYB-GR2 inserts but don't want to chance an increase in ride height above stock with the gas insert, and don't want to cut my repro springs.

    Let me know what you end up doing with yours. Are they going on your red car being done at Classic Datsun?

    Dan

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