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Info? The #55 red, white, & blue 280Z race car


Vintage Racer

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I rememberd seeing it pictured on Dave's (arizonazcar) website, revisted it:

MAHAN1.JPG

The owner is listed as Larry Mahanor as well. I believe he's been running that car for a number of years now and I don't think he's a member here.

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There is no privacy in an internet age...

I was actually trying to look up what appears to be

Jack A Atwell

Accounting Services, CPA/??

Miami Lakes

I don't know if that's a current sponsor or if it's a vintage thing.

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A little search revealed he's the Competition Racing Director for NASA - Florida region.

There is no privacy in an internet age...

That is interesting. One of the few rules in vintage is that a car must be retired from current racing groups. I don't write the rules nor will I enforce them.:)

I am surprised that the tech guys at SVRA didn't at least make him remove his NASA stickers before going out in the vintage group at Sebring.

I was also confused about the Nissan markings on the car. This is not period correct for a 1977 Datsun 280Z.

Listed as follows from the SVRA website;

Did you notice the two 1970 240Z's listed as raced by Terry Taylor of Sebring? And the 1971 Datsun 240Z raced by Guy Marvin of Jacksonville?

http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/attachmentweb/EJEN-7MR23T/$file/Entry+List+-+By+Name.pdf?OpenElement

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It's been 'period correct' since about 1934.

Nissan built it, after all. :)

IMO, "period correct" means as it was raced. No one that I know of raced a 1970 Nissan 240Z or a 1977 Nissan 280Z. My 1981 car was a Datsun 280ZX, and the later cars were 1984 Nissan 300ZXs. There was never a Honda NSX.

It doesn't amount to a pile of beans :classic: ; it's just history. I always liked the Datsun name. It was a combination of the DAT Motors name and the "sun" on the national flag.

I also prefer Jaguar to Tata. ;)

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You know, after thinking about it, I'll pass. Mr. Jagger seems to be quite happy within his own logic. I came to that conclusion based on another exchange we had in another thread. That's fine. I wouldn't want to be the one to deprive him of that bliss:)

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...No one that I know of raced a 1970 Nissan 240Z or a 1977 Nissan 280Z.

...in the North American market. The rest of the world, however, is a different matter...

My 1981 car was a Datsun 280ZX, and the later cars were 1984 Nissan 300ZXs.

My '79 is labeled as such on the rear hatch: Datsun 280zx by Nissan

Transition time.

There was never a Honda NSX....

sold by that name in the North American market. Acura was/is the "luxury" brand from Honda meant for the North American market (yes, it has expanded to other markets as well) and needed a luxury/high performance model for the Acura lineup.

However, in all markets outside the NA one, the NSX was indeed labeled and marketed as a Honda, not Acura.

Not picking on you, just a friendly reminder that we are talking about a car sold in many markets, under two different names.

Edited by zbane
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IMO, "period correct" means as it was raced. No one that I know of raced a 1970 Nissan 240Z or a 1977 Nissan 280Z. My 1981 car was a Datsun 280ZX, and the later cars were 1984 Nissan 300ZXs. There was never a Honda NSX.

The SVRA & HSR definitely do not enforce any kind of period paint schemes, that's entirely at the owner's discretion. Most vintage groups are concerned with the preparation level and period correctness on a mechanical level and frown on newer technology, remote reservoir shocks, etc. As for the stickers, it's rare to hear a sanctioning body orders the "other" group removed, or taped over, but it does happen.

Also, period correctness can be a bit vague as most race cars were in a constant state of flux through their lives and just about anything could be be considered "correct" depending on the year referenced. In this case the car is more representative of it's life at a later date, probably sometime in the 80's.

Your earlier statement of the car requiring a previous race history is incorrect as well. Depending on the sanctioning body and group within it's not always a prerequisite.

I hope this doesn't come across as an attack in any way, just "keepin' it real". :)

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Your earlier statement of the car requiring a previous race history is incorrect as well. Depending on the sanctioning body and group within it's not always a prerequisite.

I never said the particular car had to be previously raced. I stated:

IMO, "period correct" means as it was raced.

IMO, "period correct" means that a vintage car should be set up in a way that it was previously raced. It may be the original car that was raced or a proper replica.

Then I said:

It doesn't amount to a pile of beans :classic:; it's just history.

I guess that there is some sort of negative thoughts from you guys about whether it should be called Datsun or Nissan? I am sorry, but my '74, the '77, and the '81 Datsun were purchased from a Datsun dealer. Please excuse my indiscretions.

I came here in goodwill and only seeking technical information.

Yes, I did come from corner-carvers. It is a serious road racing board with very specific rules (NSFW for many guys):

http://www.forums.corner-carvers.com/showthread.php?t=7393

Also, period correctness can be a bit vague as most race cars were in a constant state of flux through their lives and just about anything could be be considered "correct" depending on the year referenced. In this case the car is more representative of it's life at a later date, probably sometime in the 80's.

A 1977 280Z could be "period correct" until the 300ZX was produced. I do not know of one racing group that allowed a 3.0L V-6 engine in an I6 car.

The car noted above says he has a 2.8L so I assume it was a L28 SOHC I6 engine. Do you have any tech where a 3.0L V-6 Nissan engine was allowed in a 280?

SVRA’s purpose is promote the historical preservation and use of racing cars, create a spirit of safety consciousness among their drivers and maintain an atmosphere of friendly competition at SVRA events. The object is to present a venue for racecars that are accurately prepared to a period configuration and specification, so as to recreate a lost era in motorsports. Appearance of the car and authenticity of its configuration is a vital component of SVRA acceptance.
3. Period specification: The configuration of a car as raced during the eligibility period.
5. Replica: A race car whose actual construction was by other than the original manufacturer, or at a date later than the original production run, but still accurately meets the period specifications of the original.

http://www.svra.com/SVRA/SVRAHome.nsf/attachmentweb/EJEN-5ZUTB7/$file/SVRA+Rules+&+Regulations.pdf?OpenElement

Engine:

The engine must be of the same type and material as originally provided in the year of manufacture. Period type engine modifications are permitted. For every car entered, the specific engine displacement must be disclosed in a certified engine builder’s form.

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No one that I know of raced a 1970 Nissan 240Z or a 1977 Nissan 280Z. My 1981 car was a Datsun 280ZX, and the later cars were 1984 Nissan 300ZXs. There was never a Honda NSX.

Well, zbane's excellent post already made the point I think. But just to reinforce it, I'll add a couple of pics to illustrate.

Please don't take this as anything other than a well-intentioned bit of signposting. Nobody's out to 'break a butterfly on a wheel' here.

'NISSAN' logos on Japanese race cars, and a factory 'Honda NSX' race car in the Honda Museum - as used by Team Kunimitsu at the Le Mans 24hrs:

post-2116-14150806848885_thumb.jpg

post-2116-14150806849928_thumb.jpg

post-2116-14150806850373_thumb.jpg

post-2116-14150806851215_thumb.jpg

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Well, zbane's excellent post already made the point I think. But just to reinforce it, I'll add a couple of pics to illustrate.

The vintage racing community spends a lot of time and money returning a race car to its original livery. The owner of an old race car go do with it what they want.

Why don't we rip the Datsun stickers off this famous BRE car and replace them with Nissan graphics?

BRE240.jpg

Pete Brock, who I know, is selling this famous Shelby Daytona coupe after its restoration to its original livery. Should he return it to a later look?

BrockCoupe.jpg

Pete and his replica coupe the last time I meet with him.

peter.jpg

Who cares if this 1973 RSR is famous due to its Gulf Blue IROC graphics, and the fact that Bobby Allison drove it? We'll paint it red and stick a VW graphic on it (Porsche now controls over 50% of the stock of VW).

JL.jpg

Please don't take this as anything other than a well-intentioned bit of signposting.

I enjoy a good debate. A well written and well communicated post allows everyone to learn something new (or understand another's opinion). It's just that the "Alan, should I tell him or will you?", "Beat my guest", and "You know, after thinking about it, I'll pass." posts seem to me to be a waste of everyone's time.

You guys seem to want to update all older U.S. Datsun cars to Nissan graphics while I think the car's original livery is important. It's just an opinion.

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I enjoy a good debate. A well written and well communicated post allows everyone to learn something new (or understand another's opinion). It's just that the "Alan, should I tell him or will you?", "Beat my guest", and "You know, after thinking about it, I'll pass." posts seem to me to be a waste of everyone's time.

You guys seem to want to update all older U.S. Datsun cars to Nissan graphics while I think the car's original livery is important. It's just an opinion.

And your opinion is better than anyone elses? The reason I'll pass at debating this with you is that you don't give enough info in your initial posts to really show where you're coming from and then when someone questions it, you go on the offensive. You got me in the other thread but no more. There's a thin line between enjoying a good debate and baiting people into a argument. Hence my comments in post #11. Also, just an opinion.

Edited by sblake01
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And your opinion is better than anyone elses? The reason I'll pass at debating this with you is that you don't give enough info in your initial posts to really show where you're coming from and then when someone questions it, you go on the offensive. You got me in the other thread but no more. There's a thin line between enjoying a good debate and baiting people into a argument. Hence my comments in post #11. Also, just an opinion.

I'm with you, after the last retaliatory post in regards to mine, just biting my lip, I'm done!

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I can see this is going nowhere.

I am not baiting anyone. I offered questions and links to tech.

In the meantime, the owner of a shop that I know sent me this offer:

http://www.2-shores-classics.com/garage/current-offers.html?car_id=96&lang=us

1972Datsun240Z.jpg

1972 Datsun 240Z

This 6 time trophy winner had 3 owners. Original miles. Over $30,000 invested in this 240Z, there are two folders of receipts since 1972.

Plus restoration photos showing how this beautiful 240Z became the car it is today. This Z even has its original dash board with no cracks. This car came in 1st place at the Lime Rock Vintage show in 2005.

A very fine example of those desirable, early 240Z in top condition. Perfect car to start a collection. Car is in the US.

Price: US$ 24,500

I offered him a fair price

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Wouldn't the 'period correct' question be related to what cars or replicas are catered for in a particular class or race series? Restricted to cars that originally only competed in America or open to cars that also competed elsewhere in the world?

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